Marriage is a horrible deal for women
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Anonymous
Your reading comprehension is worse than my second grader. |
Anonymous
Nice attempt at deflection. Try again, actually addressing what was posted this time. Warning:Reading will be involved. |
Anonymous
No, sorry. Nice try though. |
Anonymous
I love that you obviously Googled for the result you wanted but were too lazy to read the articles. This one you posted -- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html -- actually says that while women work more hours in the house, men work more outside of the house. This is the issue. Women don't see all the work that men are doing outside of the house and thus see the imbalance in the house as a sign that the division of labor is unfair overall, and assume that the reason that men make more money must be discrimination, rather than doing more work. The Pew study you linked also says that men spend more time in paid work, and the Pew research also says that married men with children work more hours overall than married women with children. And men on average make more money than women, so disproportionately contribute to family finances than women. Yet I love that the irrational conclusion you draw from these studies is that married women get the short end of the stick. |
Anonymous
I agree with this. This is our own set up. We live in the burbs (west coast), I don’t work. DH is happy, home life is easy. I do most of the annoying tasks during the day so our evenings and weekends are freed up. We don’t argue about division of labor BS. There’s no tit for tat. Marriage has been extremely beneficial for both of us. |
Anonymous
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I'm sure this point has been made, but modern marriage is not necessarily a bad deal for women.
Modern motherhood is an absolute nightmare for women and somehow marriage makes it worse. The expectations for mothers have reached this critical point where it is now pretty much impossible to meet parenting standards unless you are wealthy enough to outsource significant parts of it to well-paid professionals, and even then it's hard. We've created this fiction where parental duties are shared equitably but (1) they are definitely not, women are still doing the vast majority of childcare as well as household tasks in families, and (2) we've actually increased the volume of parental duties a ton in the last 30 years or so to the point where even if a man does half of what his mom did when he was a child, it will not be half of what is actually expected at this point. We also have a huge crisis in childcare, and don't forget the similar crises brewing in elder care as Boomers age. This is why the birth rate among non-immigrant populations is plummeting. What is expected is simply not possible, and women are increasingly tired of being the scapegoats for all of this. When women become parents these days it's just because they really, really want to be, which only makes it more acutely miserable when you're told repeatedly who crap you are at it even while breaking your back trying to do it well. |
Anonymous
You're really describing one particular way to parent, which only exists in a small segment of the population. And even then, I assure you, tons of kids never do travel sports or play an instrument beyond what the school does, make ok grades and lead ok lives. You don't have to take on what you don't want. |
Anonymous
There is a huge amount of truth to this. One of the culprits is the extreme views on what parents should do among the UMC. It is no longer the case that kids spend many unsupervised hours just playing. There are so many extracurriculars, scheduled playtimes, camps, etc. etc. That doesn't even take into account how much more is consumed by and for children compared to decades ago. A big part of this is that parents work more, so they feel the need to schedule their kids more. A big part is that parents feel like kids need to be competitive with other kids to succeed. And a big part of it is social pressure to keep up with the Joneses in terms of what you provide. The counterintuitive result is, I believe, families that are less happy, including the kids. But it doesn't have to be this way. Both parents do not have to work full time -- you just have to be comfortable with less money. Kids don't need a lot of what we buy for them -- in terms of goods or activities. |
Anonymous
1. Where does the pew research say that married men work more overall? I must have missed that. Regardless, look at the amount of measure time dads v moms have. Moms have less leisure time on average. 2. Just because moms work less outside the home doesn’t mean that they were fewer hours total. If a dad works 50 hours and does 5 hours at home and a mom works 40 hours and does 20 hours at home, the mom is working more hours overall. 3. Why is it okay that women are the ones who have to pull back in their careers? Why is that not done equally? And why does doing so result in career interruptions for women more than it does for men? And you can’t say that it’s because of biology because the biology of Americans isn’t different than that of other countries and their stats are different. 4. Do you think the reason women are opting out of marriage more and more is because they too are bad at looking at a marriage and seeing who benefits and who doesn’t? The solid majority of women initiate divorce, and it’s not because they are worse than men at gauging whether or not a marriage is equitable. It’s because they are fed up with crap. |
Anonymous
1. Here is the Pew study on work time, and married men with children spend more total time working than women: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2013/03/14/chapter-6-time-in-work-and-leisure-patterns-by-gender-and-family-structure/. Leisure time is not the same as free time in the Pew studies. Leisure time means time specifically devoted to certain leisure activities as defined by the study. 2. Yes, according to at least a couple of the articles you posted (and the Pew study I just posted), women do work less overall. 3. Why is it ok that the burden of financial support falls disproportionately on men? Why is that not done equally? Maybe women want to spend more time in taking care of the kids and the home than men do. Is that wrong? Does that mean it is unfair? 4. Men AND women are opting out more. Do you think men opting out more means that it is a bad deal for men? From what I can see around me, it is still far more common for women to push for marriage than men. Does that mean it is a better deal for women? Maybe women initiate divorce more because they benefit disproportionately from family law and family courts. Or maybe it is because men are more likely to sleep around. Or maybe it is because women are not as innately loyal. Or maybe it is because women are not as accustomed to accepting hard work. Or maybe it is because men check out of bad marriages whereas women just leave. Who knows? You certainly don't. |
Anonymous
I am going to push back on that. If he was rich and beat you would that still be a good deal? For me, I found my life partner and it is worth it. For many women this is true though |
Anonymous
You referenced 2013 data which is for US overall not large metropolitan centers, and not for families where women make the same or more than man. Covid lockdown was a huge tax on women’s leisure time: in some studies women spent 10 times more on house work vs men while also working. Even in your article men in families with younger kids have more leisure time |
Anonymous
Yes, I think it is unfair because women end up working less hours (for pay) and therefore end up financially behind men. Women usually take on the household work to enable men at their paying jobs (whether this is conscious or not), or because the men simply won't do the household work. Not in every relationship, but there is a pattern for many couples. |
Anonymous
That's a funny way of saying that women free-ride on the work and earnings of men. I love how you manage to turn that into oppression. |
Anonymous
What studies? Ten times the time while also working? I call bs on that one. |