Atheist bil won’t allow 3 year old nephew to receive a gift during holidays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Sure sounds like someone can’t be placated.

Yup OP doesn't care about anything but being right and making sure that BIL and sister know this. I didn't know Jesus but I'm sure he'd try to make sure the kid was as happy as he could make him regardless of the parents but obviously that part of the teaching is lost on OP. Let the kid be sad so the parents can see how wrong they are (secretly hopes the kid is super sad).

DP. So you’re advocating for everybody else, including all the other kids, having to sneak around with their gift-giving to placate Larlo’s parents? How is this a better solution?

No, I was saying that the OP could try to distract Larlo if he becomes unhappy. Of course they should do the gifts but the kind thing would be to try to ensure that you make your nephew feel ok IF he feels unhappy. Kid might be just fine. But OP is more interested in tut tutting at the bad parenting than trying to ensure her nephew has an ok day. Instead of being adults and saying “Sheesh this seems a little extreme but we love Linda, Larry and Larlo and we’ll do our best.” The OP has been champing at the bit for justification to give the kid a toy despite BOTH parents saying that goes against their values. They shouldn’t have to justify their values any more than anyone else does but OP and others think their religious beliefs supersede any other beliefs, even when they are held by people they profess to love. OP is more interested in being right than being happy.

No, I want Larlo to be happy.

No you don't. You said so yourself:

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

You want to be right.

DP. Where did you get that? Stop bullying OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is your answer right here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

Yeah - irony is thick. Also the sister is on board too. It’s not just the BIL. Honestly now I’m worried about Larlo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure why you are being so antagonistic to your BIL's choice for his family not to partake of your traditions. You are being crappy host by insisting that you should find a way to take your sister and BIL's decision away from them. They have decided that since your whole family is together, that they want to see the full extended family and, as you've pointed out, this is probably the only time all year that everyone will be together. They've acknowledged that and although they probably wish they could find another occasion to see everyone, you've all made that impossible. So, they are compromising their beliefs by attending a holiday party with the concession that they won't partake of Christian holiday traditions.

You should be a gracious host and be happy that they are joining the extended family. As a good host, you would be finding a way to allow them to attend and enjoy everyone's company without making them uncomfortable, but you've decided to dig in your heels and try to cast your BIL as a villain, even though your sister and he made a joint decision to not partake of the traditions with religious overtones.

I have an alienated family member. If they decided to join the extended family for a rare visit when everyone was together I would be going out of my way to find a way for them to enjoy the occasion, even if they didn't want to partake of family traditions at the time. In this example, you could invite the rest of the family at noon, give out gifts at 1pm and have your sister and BIL arrive at 3pm and stay through dinner. Everyone gets to enjoy the occasion, but sister and BIL and nephew are not there for the gift unwrapping. Alternatively, invite everyone early and tell sister and BIL that you'll be doing holiday traditions after an early dinner, so if they want to bundle up your nephew after dinner (since he's only 3, he's likely going to need to be in bed early anyways) and you can have dinner at like 4pm and gift unwrapping at 6pm. They can have dinner and leave. This also works because then you can save all of the sweet treats and desserts for after dinner after they've left and you've avoided another potential meltdown potential, all in one.

I have a feeling that you'd be a good and gracious host for any other situation. If you had invited guests that were important to have and they had some restriction, I'd expect that you'd bend over backwards to be a good host. But in this case, you are letting your mother's whining and your sense of tradition cloud your judgment and instead of being a good host, you are digging in your heels to blame your BIL for being unreasonable and trying to ruin your holiday and letting your mother's emotions stop you from being a gracious host.

Try to look at this with some empathy towards the family who does not share your traditions and look for a way to entertain them and still host family traditions without them, by doing the traditions either early or late.

This is op. Bil is making himself and his feelings the centerpiece of everything. He can’t see that his young child has feelings, and a gift doesn’t have a religious meaning.

Wow op - if this kind post didn’t help you understand that you are wrong, then nothing will.

+1

Yikes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

So atheism is a culture?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

So atheism is a culture?

Yes. We could tell you more about what’s in The Atheist Handbook if you knew the secret handshake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

So atheism is a culture?

It is a culture of course. There are all variations of culture. Every family has a culture that is distinct to their family. Friends have a culture. Vegans have a culture. It could also be classified as a religion as it is something in which someone believes and often a matter of ethics or conscience. You don't have to go to building and believe in a god to have a culture, to have ethics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

So atheism is a culture?

Atheism is simply a disbelief in god. Culture is the set of traditions/customs you are raised with and participate in. Kids learn what traditions they do/do not participate in.

As a side note, I don’t even really see BIL’s atheism as relevant to the discussion. Any parent who asks for no gifts, should be respected in that wish regardless of reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are so concerned about Larlo - although a lot of energy here has been about how the adult grandmother feels, but if you are sooo concerned about how this child feels the best thing you can do is to provide a loving and accepting environment for his whole family. You can only control how YOU behave. So if Larlo gets upset you don’t say “mommy and daddy wouldn’t let us give you a gift” you provide a distraction. Take him to pet the dog or show him a magic trick. He’s only 3. It will pass. As he gets older his parents will explain things to him and his expectations will be different. Maybe he will be resentful but that’s not your problem. This child is a member of your family and your job is to love him and his parents in spite of your fundamental differences. You teach him about generosity of spirit and unconditional love.

Why is it wrong to be concerned about Larlo?

Literally no one said it was wrong to be concerned about Larlo - the OP seemed more concerned about her mother than Larlo frankly.

Op (me) is concerned for both.

Larlo deserves a Christmas gift with his family. It won’t hurt anything.

To the posters above who advised to distract Larlo during gift opening; that’s on his parents. They want larlo to live as they choose, they can deal with the ramifications of their choices. It’s their choice! They can deal. Honestly nothing is going to placate a child in this situation.

Nobody deserves gifts, ever. They are literally gratuitous by definition. If you are raising your kids to feel entitled to gifts and to expect them, then that’s on you.

A child is perfectly capable of understanding and accepting that he’s not getting a gift for a holiday that he doesn’t celebrate. If not, then again - parents’ fault.

Finally, even if the kid did get upset, IT IS OK AND NORMAL FOR KIDS TO FEEL BRIEFLY UPSET! We don’t have to go to extreme measures to avoid it. If kids are allowed to experience and handle disappointment early on, maybe they won’t end up like this grandma who can’t cope with not getting her way on Christmas.

It’s awful to disappoint and upset a kid at Christmas, and you get jerk bonus points for repeatedly saying elderly grandma has issues for wanting grandchild to have a Christmas gift with his cousins.

They don’t celebrate Christmas! So it is not disappointing!! Would you insist in giving a Christmas gift to a kid who is Jewish or Muslim? Or someone who is Christian but does not believe in gift giving? Kids learn what their culture is and what to expect.

So atheism is a culture?

Atheism is simply a disbelief in god. Culture is the set of traditions/customs you are raised with and participate in. Kids learn what traditions they do/do not participate in.

As a side note, I don’t even really see BIL’s atheism as relevant to the discussion. Any parent who asks for no gifts, should be respected in that wish regardless of reason.

There is a long-standing tradition on this forum that believers follow every holiday season to get them in the right mindset to spread peace and love. They viscerally enjoy the act of dumping on atheists. Nothing brings them more joy.

[Anonymous]

And what's att this stuff about upsetting the "elderly grandma." Since when should we protect elderly people from getting upset?

They have lots of life experience and have been upset many times. They know that times change and people change and remember, they were young once, too and know how that feels.

shame on Grandma is she's using her advanced age to get her way. and shame on the others if they are using Grandma to force their will on others.