My Ex is Constantly Punishing DS

[Anonymous]

Whoa whoa whoa. People...this is a 10 year old CHILD (he has an undeveloped prefrontal cortex--this means fully formed impulse control and adult-level rational thinking are not a realistic expectations. Sheesh).

Yes, as children develop, it is important to let them take on new responsibilities and raise expectations of behavior. But Dad's behavior sounds cunning, mean and manipulative. It doesn't promote a mastery of new skills (he's not helping him learn to prepare food so that he can gain new independence, he's forcing him to struggle so Dad can feel powerful and "make a point"). Words matter and telling a kid that they are "useless" can stick. Adolescent boys are prone to depression and this child is at a tender age when constant criticism and having a parent offer conditional love (the condition is that he reach a constantly moving target of "good behavior") can shape the way that they see themselves and their self-worth.

Also, has it occurred to any of these prior posters that this child has heavy feelings related to his parents divorce? My parent's divorce was ridiculously painful. Getting moved from house to house against my will made me feel powerless and angry. Kids lose the most in divorces, even under the best circumstances. Could we, as adults, muster some empathy for this kid? It doesn't seem like he even has a sibling to lean on for support. He is alone. No one is saying bad behavior needs to be swept under the rug, but kind, firm, and thoughtful responses from the adults in his life can go a long way in preventing depression/anxiety and to make sure he doesn't do the same thing to his future partners and kids.

Mom--you're right to be concerned. The fact that CPS has already been involved is not a good sign. As others have said, make sure you document things as they occur. In the mean time, consider a weekly therapy visit for both you and your son. He deserves someone objective to help him put all of this in perspective and to help him sort out his own feelings about his family. In your own sessions, you can gain some strategies for setting useful, productive boundaries when he is with you and how to support his emotional needs.

In the mean time, be a listener for him. Offer him space to talk to you about what he goes through. Don't criticize Dad (seriously, it doesn't help) but do let him know that he is NOT responsible for his Dad's emotions. Take that weight of his shoulders. Be as consistent, even-keeled and loving as you can. It's hard but worth it. Good luck Mom!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Umm Dad sounds abusive and it’s not within his rights to hit him. Maybe you are too permissive but Dad sounds like a nut case whose time with kid should be limited.

The problem is that some of Dad's behavior is in the grey area, and some is really good parenting (in fact, something OP could learn from)

Telling a 10yo that they are responsible for their own breakfast and lunch is good. It teaches responsibility.

Telling a 10yo they are bad at something and should quit is bad. Dad needs to be more supportive.

But since OP listed all those things together, it just feels like she doesn't like Dad's style of parenting, which is probably part of the reason they are divorced. But its nothing that really warrants any type of intervention

Op here again. Telling a 10 year old to prepare his own food is teaching responsibility, doing that in retaliation because DS pissed you off, is not. It's punitive and sends the message to DS that if he isn't people pleasing or perfect, essential things can be withheld from him. That's what I don't agree with. It's not the idea that OMG DS has to make a sandwich when he's hungry and dad is on a call. It's the message behind I don't like how you behaved, therefore I'm not making you food.

But you have a point, I clearly don't like X's overall parenting approach, and that's something I need to deal with. What I was looking for is how to do I support my son so he doesn't internalize these messages and take them as proof that he's a "useless or a failure" as he recently keeps referring to himself. Things I would never call him.

NP and I'm not sure I would classify that as withholding essential things from him assuming the food is accessible and he otherwise knows how to prepare it (presumably at age 10 he can make a sandwich?). I don't think it's a bad lesson that if you act like a jerk people aren't going to go out of their way to help you out. From your OP it sounded like your son was being rude vs. just not pleasing or perfect.

It's a really jerky punishment. And immature. "If you act like that, you can make your own dinner!" Probably not a big deal in the context of overall decent parenting, but it sounds like this guy is manipulative and aggressive overall. Forcing the kid to make all his own meals is a way to belittle a child and withhold affection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa whoa whoa. People...this is a 10 year old CHILD (he has an undeveloped prefrontal cortex--this means fully formed impulse control and adult-level rational thinking are not a realistic expectations. Sheesh).

Yes, as children develop, it is important to let them take on new responsibilities and raise expectations of behavior. But Dad's behavior sounds cunning, mean and manipulative. It doesn't promote a mastery of new skills (he's not helping him learn to prepare food so that he can gain new independence, he's forcing him to struggle so Dad can feel powerful and "make a point"). Words matter and telling a kid that they are "useless" can stick. Adolescent boys are prone to depression and this child is at a tender age when constant criticism and having a parent offer conditional love (the condition is that he reach a constantly moving target of "good behavior") can shape the way that they see themselves and their self-worth.

Also, has it occurred to any of these prior posters that this child has heavy feelings related to his parents divorce? My parent's divorce was ridiculously painful. Getting moved from house to house against my will made me feel powerless and angry. Kids lose the most in divorces, even under the best circumstances. Could we, as adults, muster some empathy for this kid? It doesn't seem like he even has a sibling to lean on for support. He is alone. No one is saying bad behavior needs to be swept under the rug, but kind, firm, and thoughtful responses from the adults in his life can go a long way in preventing depression/anxiety and to make sure he doesn't do the same thing to his future partners and kids.

Mom--you're right to be concerned. The fact that CPS has already been involved is not a good sign. As others have said, make sure you document things as they occur. In the mean time, consider a weekly therapy visit for both you and your son. He deserves someone objective to help him put all of this in perspective and to help him sort out his own feelings about his family. In your own sessions, you can gain some strategies for setting useful, productive boundaries when he is with you and how to support his emotional needs.

In the mean time, be a listener for him. Offer him space to talk to you about what he goes through. Don't criticize Dad (seriously, it doesn't help) but do let him know that he is NOT responsible for his Dad's emotions. Take that weight of his shoulders. Be as consistent, even-keeled and loving as you can. It's hard but worth it. Good luck Mom!

exactly. you phrased that so well.

[Anonymous]

I would take him back to court for more custodial time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"X-h should manage his emotions and his responses to what he perceives as DS is being rude better, too."

Quite likely, but what do you mean, specifically?

That he doesn't need to lose it, call him useless, a POS, ground him, etc. It seems like a disproportionate response to a minor infraction.

It sounds like your ExH has some legitimate concerns and objections to your ten year old son’s level of independence and responsibility. Just like you think he is too harsh, he probably thinks his son’s mom is making the kid too soft, and that it’s up to him to make a man out of the boy. If your son has deficiencies in the form of back talk, sass, laziness, etc those are real areas that a lot of people view as essential things to train out of a kid. I would not provide safe harbor for those if I were you as indulging it when he is with you will only prolong the problem and cause him to be more seditious when he’s with his father. Those behaviors will not serve your kid in the long run, especially with other men. Your DH should not hit your kid. Tell your kid this while also telling your kid that those behaviors are still unacceptable. I too have lost my cool with my 10 yo DC and called him useless at times when he was being slow or lazy. I still love him madly. Also it is normal for a ten year old to be making their own food. Not gourmet dinners but the can pour cereal or make eggs and a sandwich. Mine does. Your ExH is communicating that over-indulgent caretaking is not healthy or a right, and is contingent on good behavior. That is not a bad lesson DH or your son to learn. I know you mean well OP, but by spoiling your son think about what kind of man he might become when he is someone else’s problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your ex is a bully and he knows it, so does your son. He physically bullies a 10 year old for control and power. You divorced him for a reason. One day when your son is bigger than this bully, he may physically defend himself.

You should document everything. Check your son for bruises and photograph. Speak to your lawyer. You have equal say on how your son is raised. Get to it. Start the process with an attorney. No judge will stand for physical abuse, whether CPS says its ex's right or not. He's hurting your child to hurt you. That's power because he believes you can do nothing about it.

This is 100% correct, OP.

The worst thing you can do with a bully like your husband is to back down. That’s why he does it.

The way you fight back against a bully is to win. Quietly document. Does your son text or email or tiktok? If so, save the texts. Call a (good) lawyer. Proceed quietly for a few months. Then take legal action.

And play the long game. Your son is 10. When he's 13 or 14 a judge is likely to take your son's wishes into account regarding how much and if he sees his father. I also think your son needs a therapist to help with his self-esteem and to develop techniques/coping mechanisms to deal with the legalized abuse that he's enduring. CPS is overworked and understaffed and is really there for the worst cases of abuse. There are many, many other avenues for you to pursue.

I find it really interesting and telling that a PP referenced Pat Conroy/The Great Santini - here's what Pat Conroy has to say about his childhood:

I hated my father long before I knew there was a word for hate. My mother would later claim that I refused to learn the word “Daddy” until after my first birthday. From the start he was a menacing, hovering presence, and I never felt safe for one moment that my father loomed over me. I don’t think it occurred to him that loving his children might be part of his job description. He could have written a manual on the art of waging war against his wife and children. I can’t remember a house I lived in as a child where he did not beat my mother or me or my brothers; nor do I believe that he would’ve noticed if both his daughters had run away from home. My mother raised me, the oldest child, to be the protector of her other kids, to rush them into secret hiding places we had scouted whenever we moved into a new house. We learned to hide our shame in the madness of our day-to-day lives so that the nuns and priests who ran our parishes everywhere we went considered us an exemplary Catholic family.

https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2013/11/19/pat-conroy-santini

[Anonymous]

OP, your ex is trying to teach you kid how to behave and be responsible and you sound like you are sabotaging it at every level. You need to work with him, not against him. If your kid is acting like a brat, you both need to address the behavior and the behavior will get worse because you allow it. I've told my preteen to cook for himself if he's being a pain or cannot answer me. Its how he learned to cook. You aren't doing your kid any favors by babying him. Your 10 year old should be making sandwiches and more at that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"X-h should manage his emotions and his responses to what he perceives as DS is being rude better, too."

Quite likely, but what do you mean, specifically?

That he doesn't need to lose it, call him useless, a POS, ground him, etc. It seems like a disproportionate response to a minor infraction.

It sounds like your ExH has some legitimate concerns and objections to your ten year old son’s level of independence and responsibility. Just like you think he is too harsh, he probably thinks his son’s mom is making the kid too soft, and that it’s up to him to make a man out of the boy. If your son has deficiencies in the form of back talk, sass, laziness, etc those are real areas that a lot of people view as essential things to train out of a kid. I would not provide safe harbor for those if I were you as indulging it when he is with you will only prolong the problem and cause him to be more seditious when he’s with his father. Those behaviors will not serve your kid in the long run, especially with other men. Your DH should not hit your kid. Tell your kid this while also telling your kid that those behaviors are still unacceptable. I too have lost my cool with my 10 yo DC and called him useless at times when he was being slow or lazy. I still love him madly. Also it is normal for a ten year old to be making their own food. Not gourmet dinners but the can pour cereal or make eggs and a sandwich. Mine does. Your ExH is communicating that over-indulgent caretaking is not healthy or a right, and is contingent on good behavior. That is not a bad lesson DH or your son to learn. I know you mean well OP, but by spoiling your son think about what kind of man he might become when he is someone else’s problem.

The thing is that everything you say is correct in theory but we don't actually know if her son is too soft. That's a matter of judgment. He may be too soft to some and just fine to others. He may be backtalking or he may be just saying that he wants water and not apple juice. We don't know that. Her ex may think her parenting is over-indulgent and he may be right or he may be wrong. We simply don't know that. She may be too soft OR her ex may be too harsh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"X-h should manage his emotions and his responses to what he perceives as DS is being rude better, too."

Quite likely, but what do you mean, specifically?

That he doesn't need to lose it, call him useless, a POS, ground him, etc. It seems like a disproportionate response to a minor infraction.

It sounds like your ExH has some legitimate concerns and objections to your ten year old son’s level of independence and responsibility. Just like you think he is too harsh, he probably thinks his son’s mom is making the kid too soft, and that it’s up to him to make a man out of the boy. If your son has deficiencies in the form of back talk, sass, laziness, etc those are real areas that a lot of people view as essential things to train out of a kid. I would not provide safe harbor for those if I were you as indulging it when he is with you will only prolong the problem and cause him to be more seditious when he’s with his father. Those behaviors will not serve your kid in the long run, especially with other men. Your DH should not hit your kid. Tell your kid this while also telling your kid that those behaviors are still unacceptable. I too have lost my cool with my 10 yo DC and called him useless at times when he was being slow or lazy. I still love him madly. Also it is normal for a ten year old to be making their own food. Not gourmet dinners but the can pour cereal or make eggs and a sandwich. Mine does. Your ExH is communicating that over-indulgent caretaking is not healthy or a right, and is contingent on good behavior. That is not a bad lesson DH or your son to learn. I know you mean well OP, but by spoiling your son think about what kind of man he might become when he is someone else’s problem.

The thing is that everything you say is correct in theory but we don't actually know if her son is too soft. That's a matter of judgment. He may be too soft to some and just fine to others. He may be backtalking or he may be just saying that he wants water and not apple juice. We don't know that. Her ex may think her parenting is over-indulgent and he may be right or he may be wrong. We simply don't know that. She may be too soft OR her ex may be too harsh.

Its probably a combination of both but kid sounds like behavior needs much improvement and both parents need to work together to make it happen. While most of us don't agree with corporal punishment it is not illegal in the US.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like unconventional parenting techniques, to put it nicely. Will DH take a parenting class or see a parenting coordinator?

[Anonymous]

A number of states prohibit slapping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: A number of states prohibit slapping.

Which ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So then cut it before XDH needs to. (I'm reminded of the Pat Conroy novel "The Great Santini," where the dad would take his boys to the base exchange barbershop for haircuts. The protagonist, a stand-in for the author, would request longer hair. The barber said "Son, your dad's a colonel. You're getting the haircut he orders."

Wow bolded is an extremely authoritative person and I do not agree with any of their points, minus that there is not much you can do in this situation legally at this point. I would check in with DS and see if he likes going to XH's and work on getting that changed once he is older and can voice why he doesn't want to be going there and shouldn't be forced.