20 is Plenty - Roads in MoCo now only 20 miles per hour

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://mocoshow.com/blog/moco-launches-20-is-plenty-program-which-will-lower-some-speed-limits-to-20-miles-per-hour/?fbclid=IwAR24AtAb8ZPyrUmtJ3hFj-LGpXRUcGvvVYz6Jr-P9-mC7VY1KjOeglm6bw0

Roads include Executive Blvd, a 4 lane road parallel to Rockville Pike.

Other roads in this pilot program -

Century Boulevard – Germantown
Greenwood Avenue – Long Branch
Pinnacle Drive – Germantown
Woodglen Drive – North Bethesda

Councilmember Andrew Friedson is THRILLED that the speed limit in our area is being reduced. From his Facebook post today -

"We kicked off the 20 is Plenty campaign today on Woodglen Drive in North Bethesda. Thank you County Executive Elrich, MCDOT, the PBTSAC, and all of the advocates, as well as our State Delegation for enabling us to lower speed limits where we know higher speeds threaten pedestrians, bicyclists, and drivers.
Streets are for people. To make streets safe, we must couple lower speed limits with the physical safety upgrades necessary to protect all road users. #VisionZero"

Even more roads will be converted from 25 or higher down to 20. This is in addition to speed cameras. I have lived here for 30+ years and rarely have seen a police car enforcing actual bad driving - talking on the phone, texting, no turn signals, reckless driving, or stopping people from jaywalking, and bikers from running stop signs, red lights and not wearing helmets. Slowing down cars sounds like a good idea, but it is not realistic. I am very disappointed in our leadership this time.

Council and Elrich just cut many of the traffic cops in the budget in the name of racial equity. So expect even less enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yet another MoCo solution in search of a problem.

In 2020, there were at least 8,067 crashes on roads in the county. At least 40 people were killed, including 1 bicyclist and 16 pedestrians. Overall, 142 bicyclists were hit and injured, and 325 pedestrians. That seems like a problem to me.

You can drive 20 mph for a few blocks. Nothing bad will happen to you, I promise.

[Anonymous]

The bicycle infrastructure in Bethesda is appalling.

Everyone in the BCC school district should be able to cycle safely to school, including all the middle and elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bicycle infrastructure in Bethesda is appalling.

Everyone in the BCC school district should be able to cycle safely to school, including all the middle and elementary schools.

Now imagine what it's like in the rest of the county.

Everyone in MCPS should be able to cycle safely to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was sarcasm, and as soon as our youngest graduates, 3 more years, we are getting out of Montgomery County, and taking our high income, and taxes we pay to this miserable place with us. The current leaders are killing everything that was great about moving here in the first place, great schools, highly educated community, ease of getting around (wedges and corridors now being turned into cement cities with infill destroying all green space), no traffic mitigation, etc.

Turning desirable suburbs into overcrowded cities because why?

+1. We left already. Couldn’t last in the crappy schools another day. This is pure theater. Take direct payments to parents for school choice from the Dutch - not their love for the bicycle...it isn’t a cool climate for cycling here. I think this is trying to attract ‘millennials’ to the county when they have been driving Clarendon’s roads at 40 miles per hour in a car since they left college almost 20 years ago.

We are right there with you folks. Youngest graduates in 3 years, and we are out of here.

One year for us!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yet another MoCo solution in search of a problem.

In 2020, there were at least 8,067 crashes on roads in the county. At least 40 people were killed, including 1 bicyclist and 16 pedestrians. Overall, 142 bicyclists were hit and injured, and 325 pedestrians. That seems like a problem to me.

You can drive 20 mph for a few blocks. Nothing bad will happen to you, I promise.

I haven't analyzed all of the pedestrian deaths from last year, but often the pedestrians who die are crossing large arterials like Georgia Avenue in the middle of the block, sometimes at night. I feel bad that people are hurt or killed, but that isn't exactly the issue being addressed by this initiative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yet another MoCo solution in search of a problem.

In 2020, there were at least 8,067 crashes on roads in the county. At least 40 people were killed, including 1 bicyclist and 16 pedestrians. Overall, 142 bicyclists were hit and injured, and 325 pedestrians. That seems like a problem to me.

You can drive 20 mph for a few blocks. Nothing bad will happen to you, I promise.

I haven't analyzed all of the pedestrian deaths from last year, but often the pedestrians who die are crossing large arterials like Georgia Avenue in the middle of the block, sometimes at night. I feel bad that people are hurt or killed, but that isn't exactly the issue being addressed by this initiative.

The issue being addressed by this initiative is that vehicle speeds/road speeds are too fast for safety on roads used by pedestrians.

Should we ALSO take action to reduce vehicle speeds on big arterials like Georgia Avenue, as well as add safe places for people to cross, and better street lighting? Yes, we should. No reason it has to be one or the other, though.

At 30 mph, it takes 60 seconds to drive half a mile. At 20 mph, it takes 90 seconds. How important are those 30 seconds to you? Are they worth risking someone else's life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you disappointed in your leadership in? You don't support 20 mph speed limits in Germantown Town Center?

By the way, there is no law requiring adult bicyclists to wear helmets.

Then why not make this a law? Don't helmets save lives too? Maybe more so than lowering the speed limit 10 MPH? I find that the lower the speed limit, the more aggressive the drivers.

Because helmets don't protect bicyclists in car crashes, and helmet laws discourage bicycling and encourage harassment of minority bicyclists by police.

The speed limit in Germantown Town Center is 25 mph, and no, we're not going to raise the speed limit just because some drivers don't want to drive slowly.

So encouraging bicycling is more important than preventing brain damage? That’s insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was sarcasm, and as soon as our youngest graduates, 3 more years, we are getting out of Montgomery County, and taking our high income, and taxes we pay to this miserable place with us. The current leaders are killing everything that was great about moving here in the first place, great schools, highly educated community, ease of getting around (wedges and corridors now being turned into cement cities with infill destroying all green space), no traffic mitigation, etc.

Turning desirable suburbs into overcrowded cities because why?

+1. We left already. Couldn’t last in the crappy schools another day. This is pure theater. Take direct payments to parents for school choice from the Dutch - not their love for the bicycle...it isn’t a cool climate for cycling here. I think this is trying to attract ‘millennials’ to the county when they have been driving Clarendon’s roads at 40 miles per hour in a car since they left college almost 20 years ago.

We are right there with you folks. Youngest graduates in 3 years, and we are out of here.

One year for us!

Housing market does need more inventory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you disappointed in your leadership in? You don't support 20 mph speed limits in Germantown Town Center?

By the way, there is no law requiring adult bicyclists to wear helmets.

Then why not make this a law? Don't helmets save lives too? Maybe more so than lowering the speed limit 10 MPH? I find that the lower the speed limit, the more aggressive the drivers.

Because helmets don't protect bicyclists in car crashes, and helmet laws discourage bicycling and encourage harassment of minority bicyclists by police.

The speed limit in Germantown Town Center is 25 mph, and no, we're not going to raise the speed limit just because some drivers don't want to drive slowly.

So encouraging bicycling is more important than preventing brain damage? That’s insane.

Helmets are useful for bicyclists who fall off their bikes. They don't do anything to protect bicyclists who get hit by cars.

You know what does make bicyclists safer, though? When there are more people bicycling, because then drivers are used to expecting bicyclists to be present on the roads. So yes, encouraging bicycling makes the roads safer for bicyclists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it was sarcasm, and as soon as our youngest graduates, 3 more years, we are getting out of Montgomery County, and taking our high income, and taxes we pay to this miserable place with us. The current leaders are killing everything that was great about moving here in the first place, great schools, highly educated community, ease of getting around (wedges and corridors now being turned into cement cities with infill destroying all green space), no traffic mitigation, etc.

Turning desirable suburbs into overcrowded cities because why?

+1. We left already. Couldn’t last in the crappy schools another day. This is pure theater. Take direct payments to parents for school choice from the Dutch - not their love for the bicycle...it isn’t a cool climate for cycling here. I think this is trying to attract ‘millennials’ to the county when they have been driving Clarendon’s roads at 40 miles per hour in a car since they left college almost 20 years ago.

We are right there with you folks. Youngest graduates in 3 years, and we are out of here.

One year for us!

Housing market does need more inventory.

I'm imagining them in their new location. Their neighbors ask why they moved, and they say, "Well, the last straw was when the county lowered the speed limit to 20 mph for a few blocks in a few parts of the county where there are lots of pedestrians."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The bicycle infrastructure in Bethesda is appalling.

Everyone in the BCC school district should be able to cycle safely to school, including all the middle and elementary schools.

It’s funny that you say this. All the cyclists and “urbanists” cheer turning Woodmont, which is a major commercial artery and potential and auxiliary for Wisconsin into a pedestrian bike zone which effectively hands over public land to turn Bethesda Row into an outdoor mall for Federal Realty. The result is that the county is intentionally putting all traffic on to Arlington, which is 4 lanes. The speed limit on Arlington is 30 MPH. The speed limit on Wisconsin, a state highway, is 25 MPH. Arlington is where all of the Bethesda amenities for kids are: elementary school, library, park. Crossing Arlington is a hazard and they county only gives you 15 seconds. It’s so dangerous that MCPS provides buses to kids who live in apartments in the walk zone to discourage them from walking so that they can get to school safely. They have even locked the pedestrian entrance to further discourage walking. This is the externalities and negative consequences of not prioritizing safety in our community in favor of placating adult man-babies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bicycle infrastructure in Bethesda is appalling.

Everyone in the BCC school district should be able to cycle safely to school, including all the middle and elementary schools.

It’s funny that you say this. All the cyclists and “urbanists” cheer turning Woodmont, which is a major commercial artery and potential and auxiliary for Wisconsin into a pedestrian bike zone which effectively hands over public land to turn Bethesda Row into an outdoor mall for Federal Realty. The result is that the county is intentionally putting all traffic on to Arlington, which is 4 lanes. The speed limit on Arlington is 30 MPH. The speed limit on Wisconsin, a state highway, is 25 MPH. Arlington is where all of the Bethesda amenities for kids are: elementary school, library, park. Crossing Arlington is a hazard and they county only gives you 15 seconds. It’s so dangerous that MCPS provides buses to kids who live in apartments in the walk zone to discourage them from walking so that they can get to school safely. They have even locked the pedestrian entrance to further discourage walking. This is the externalities and negative consequences of not prioritizing safety in our community in favor of placating adult man-babies.

Just to add, that the county can and should make Woodmont two directions to allow it to become a true Wisconsin bypass and it should add traffic calming to Arlington before kids get killed. It won’t and the cyclist and “urbanists” don’t give a crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bicycle infrastructure in Bethesda is appalling.

Everyone in the BCC school district should be able to cycle safely to school, including all the middle and elementary schools.

It’s funny that you say this. All the cyclists and “urbanists” cheer turning Woodmont, which is a major commercial artery and potential and auxiliary for Wisconsin into a pedestrian bike zone which effectively hands over public land to turn Bethesda Row into an outdoor mall for Federal Realty. The result is that the county is intentionally putting all traffic on to Arlington, which is 4 lanes. The speed limit on Arlington is 30 MPH. The speed limit on Wisconsin, a state highway, is 25 MPH. Arlington is where all of the Bethesda amenities for kids are: elementary school, library, park. Crossing Arlington is a hazard and they county only gives you 15 seconds. It’s so dangerous that MCPS provides buses to kids who live in apartments in the walk zone to discourage them from walking so that they can get to school safely. They have even locked the pedestrian entrance to further discourage walking. This is the externalities and negative consequences of not prioritizing safety in our community in favor of placating adult man-babies.

Yes, the speed limit on Arlington shouldn't be any faster than 25 mph, just like on Wisconsin. It would be also great if the county would agree to reduce Arlington to 2 lanes each way. Then MCPS could put a crossing guard on Arlington, and then kids could walk to Bethesda ES.

The "adult man-baby" issue is people who expect the county and state to prioritize driving in downtown Bethesda. If you want to drive in downtown Bethesda, you should expect to have to drive slowly, stop frequently, and park a few blocks away from your destination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Just to add, that the county can and should make Woodmont two directions to allow it to become a true Wisconsin bypass and it should add traffic calming to Arlington before kids get killed. It won’t and the cyclist and “urbanists” don’t give a crap.

There shouldn't be any "bypass" in downtown Bethesda. Speedy through-traffic is just as inappropriate on Woodmont as on Wisconsin.