So WDYT causes cardiovascular, cancer, diabetes? Meat or sugar or carbs?

[Anonymous]

Well my mother ate no meat, never smoked or drank, and died of lung cancer at 62. As did her mother, who smoked while she was pregnant with her and in the house when she was a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well for diabetes, it’s sugar, no question. For cancer - probably many contributors including non-dietary, and genetics. And bad luck.

Hmm.. this is actually not true.

Type 1 diabetes is caused by your immune system attacking the insulin producing cells of your pancreases and has nothing to do with lifestyle.

Type 2 diabetes is related to being overweight but not directly caused by sugar. Sugar/carbs are easier to overeat so make it easier to pack on the pounds but if you eat a lot of sugar without being overweight you are less likely to get type 2 diabetes.

OP here. The documentary alleged that it is fat that destroys your pancreas, hence diabetes. That eating a lot of sugar will make you overweight, but that butter in let's say a cookies is the culprit.

Just because a documentary throws it out there doesn't mean it's true.

Sure. But each different documentary uses studies to reinforce their claim. This one even Harvard and many other studies. Others cite studies that support their claims. So, what is a regular person to think?

It’s always a good idea to seek out alternative views rather than relying on one source. Here are a couple of other takes on the documentary.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/7/25/16018658/what-the-health-documentary-review-vegan-diet
https://time.com/4897133/vegan-netflix-what-the-health/

Thanks so much! You are right, and the reviews are right! What terrible "documentary!"

OP, no single source is perfect, but a documentary will always have a preferred perspective and agenda. It's the way (and why) they are made.

If you want to know the best resources for a "regular person," try the relevant major professional organization fact sheets -- e.g., for cardiology, look at information from the American Heart Association and/or the American College of Cardiology, such as the "2019 ACC/AHA Guideline on the Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease" at https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/ten-points-to-remember/2019/03/07/16/00/2019-acc-aha-guideline-on-primary-prevention-gl-prevention :

Nutrition

Dietary patterns associated with CVD mortality include—sugar, low-calorie sweeteners, high-carbohydrate diets, low-carbohydrate diets, refined grains, trans fat, saturated fat, sodium, red meat, and processed red meat (such as bacon, salami, ham, hot dogs, and sausage). All adults should consume a healthy plant-based or Mediterranean-like diet high in vegetables, fruits, nuts, whole grains, lean vegetable or animal protein (preferably fish), and vegetable fiber, which has been shown to lower the risk of all-cause mortality compared to control or standard diet. Longstanding dietary patterns that focus on low intake of carbohydrates and a high intake of animal fat and protein as well as high carbohydrate diets are associated with increased cardiac and noncardiac mortality. The increased availability of affordable, palatable, and high-calorie foods along with decreased physical demands of many jobs have fueled the epidemic of obesity and the consequent increases in hypertension and T2DM.

They are not perfect, but they do have to reflect a consensus opinion across a large number of highly trained specialists in the area.

Also, be careful that you are accessing what you think you are accessing. Names can be deceiving. The American Academy of Pediatrics is reliable, but the American College of Pediatricians is a wingnut fringe group.

The American Heart Association is a money making corporation. They charge tons of money to have their "heart healthy" labels put on boxes of sugary cereals in grocery stores! And we feed them to our children Along with other products with fake, processed ingredients all through out our grocery stores.
Also, anyone who looks to Harvard for health and food nutrition advice, they also receive tons of kick back and millions in support from corporations. Corporations and big business are behind pushing all this processed "healthy" food.

Look up the history of Kellogg's, their religious agenda on why cereals and grains were pushed so hard in this country.

I don't agree with veganism, but the whole food plant based crowd does have a point that we should be eating whole foods, nothing processed and that includes sugar.

Sure. What's your source for information that passes the test of purity, then? Please post specifics. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

There's a capitalistic view of everything in the food world, and that includes dog food.

Keto, low carb, even vegan organizations have an agenda, and it's easy to purport something using isolated pieces of research or skewed data. We are really effed up regarding food.

Michael Pollan said it best :
"Eat food. Not too much, mostly plants."

In this statement we understand it all-

We cannot overeat, but we do. We overeat because we live in a consumer driven first world society where food is plentiful, more of a commodity, and underwrites a large service industry. Food is also recreation. Food is advertised to us.

Processed food is really plentiful, and it isn't food, but it's quite an industry. It involves chemicals and so much sugar.

We rely on industrial farms, and we as a country subsidize the farming ndustry to produce mass crops like corn, wheat, soy. Corn products, as a result, are in everything. Animals are also mass harvested in unhealthy and inhumane ways. Their production is unhealthy for us and the environment. Without a doubt, this is one of our largest problems.

So, if you follow the above advice, you will be ahead of the game, but it's really hard to do. There is so much sugar, processed foods, snacks, too many restaurants, too many things surrounded by food and alcohol as a lifestyle. To reign ourselves in takes us out of a culture and lifestyle, really, and that's hard.

Keep your weight manageable. No, BMI isn't everything.

Get enough, yet reasonable exercise. You need to burn off your calories, wherever they come from, but we live in an increasingly sedentary lifestyle- the way we work and live. Our exercise now must be out of context to that, so it takes motivation.
Try to reduce stress, yet we live in an ambitious and capitalistic culture, so good luck with that.
Eat everything in moderation. Meat isn't healthy, and we all know that, but if you are going to eat it, make it a small part of your diet. We think of meals as "the meat" and vegetables as the "sides." Reverse that. It's a paradigm switch.
Eat dessert! But not as much, and not often. Make it special. Stop watching baking shows. They don't help.

No one needs cola or diet cola. If you do, figure out how to stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a capitalistic view of everything in the food world, and that includes dog food.

Keto, low carb, even vegan organizations have an agenda, and it's easy to purport something using isolated pieces of research or skewed data. We are really effed up regarding food.

Michael Pollan said it best :
"Eat food. Not too much, mostly plants."

In this statement we understand it all-

We cannot overeat, but we do. We overeat because we live in a consumer driven first world society where food is plentiful, more of a commodity, and underwrites a large service industry. Food is also recreation. Food is advertised to us.

Processed food is really plentiful, and it isn't food, but it's quite an industry. It involves chemicals and so much sugar.

We rely on industrial farms, and we as a country subsidize the farming ndustry to produce mass crops like corn, wheat, soy. Corn products, as a result, are in everything. Animals are also mass harvested in unhealthy and inhumane ways. Their production is unhealthy for us and the environment. Without a doubt, this is one of our largest problems.

So, if you follow the above advice, you will be ahead of the game, but it's really hard to do. There is so much sugar, processed foods, snacks, too many restaurants, too many things surrounded by food and alcohol as a lifestyle. To reign ourselves in takes us out of a culture and lifestyle, really, and that's hard.

Keep your weight manageable. No, BMI isn't everything.

Get enough, yet reasonable exercise. You need to burn off your calories, wherever they come from, but we live in an increasingly sedentary lifestyle- the way we work and live. Our exercise now must be out of context to that, so it takes motivation.
Try to reduce stress, yet we live in an ambitious and capitalistic culture, so good luck with that.
Eat everything in moderation. Meat isn't healthy, and we all know that, but if you are going to eat it, make it a small part of your diet. We think of meals as "the meat" and vegetables as the "sides." Reverse that. It's a paradigm switch.
Eat dessert! But not as much, and not often. Make it special. Stop watching baking shows. They don't help.

No one needs cola or diet cola. If you do, figure out how to stop.

I think the crux of this is right: be reasonable. Eat a reasonably good diet. You know what that is - real food like vegetables, grains, a little protein. If you like carbs and your doctor hasn't told you to stop eating them, eat them. If you like eggs, eat eggs - they are packed with nutrition. If you put on weight then eat a little less and exercise some more and take it off. The Mediterranean diet still seems like the best version of what a good, healthy diet looks like (at least to me) - but make tweaks to your preferences. Try not to eat a lot of cr*p - sugary stuff, processed stuff, junk. You know what junk is - don't play dumb. If you drink a lot of soda, try to be more rigorous about not consuming junk the rest of the time.

I personally AM a vegetarian, and I have a lot of vegans in my life - but I don't think we all need to be so abstemious. If that works for you, then do it. If you still want to eat some salmon, eat some salmon. If you like having a burger once a week, do it - but don't go overboard with the fries and the bacon and all that stuff. You can actually make pretty decent tasting, pretty healthy fries at home if you cut up some potatoes, soak them in water, drain, dump them in a pan with olive oil and roast at 400 for an hour.

Exercise. Do it every day if you can. You don't need a Peloton. But get one if you like!

I hate these vegan documentaries because they just seem so progandistic to me - and so empty of facts - but from an animal welfare perspective I'm glad they exist, since they do seem to turn some people away from consuming animal products. But I guess, just - read everything skeptically, and follow your common sense to a good diet, I guess is my stupid advice.

[Anonymous]

OP here. To the above pps, thanks so much! It was late at night and I fell prey to my usual common sense self, I guess.
This documentary actually called the yolk and the egg a perfect vessel to get a cardio disease! Due to fats in it.
And further, they called dairy and cheese a perfectly engineered weapon to kill humans! Or something like that.
So, in a way, I started this thread to reassure myself that my normal reasonable moderation eating self is not "killing herself!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the above pps, thanks so much! It was late at night and I fell prey to my usual common sense self, I guess.
This documentary actually called the yolk and the egg a perfect vessel to get a cardio disease! Due to fats in it.
And further, they called dairy and cheese a perfectly engineered weapon to kill humans! Or something like that.
So, in a way, I started this thread to reassure myself that my normal reasonable moderation eating self is not "killing herself!"

I think anyone eating with reasonable moderation is doing their best. You can't outrun fate - the end is coming for us all - but I don't think eating some cheese and eggs will be what does you in. Unless your'e allergic or unlucky And I say that as someone who has actually worked for years for animal orgs that promote veganism - I think it's great to be a vegan; I don't think it is necessary for your best health and life.

I guess just to give an awful anecdote - one of my favorite family friends was vegan for decades. She spent a lot of time haranguing my mother - who's had every sickness you can imagine, and then a few more - about eliminating animal products, and how it's the only way she'd survive, and all kinds of awful things. Well a year ago now someone did a welfare check for our family friend and found her collapsed on her kitchen floor; she died in the hospital a week later. My mother - who eats hamburgers but also salads; she drinks water and a little scotch - thank gd is still with us, health problems and all.

I don't even know what the lesson is other than - being vegan won't stop you from dying; eating healthy and reasonably is, I think, the best we can do.

Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

The books about the Blue Zones (places with the highest number of people who live into old age with few health issues) seem to eat little meat and little dairy. Lots of vegetables, fruits and beans/legumes and they walk most places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The books about the Blue Zones (places with the highest number of people who live into old age with few health issues) seem to eat little meat and little dairy. Lots of vegetables, fruits and beans/legumes and they walk most places.

What about Ikaria? They are the longest living among blue zones, and eat a lot of feta.

[Anonymous]

I read a book “How not to die” with a LOT of references to many, many studies and according to this book it’s both - meat and processed foods that cause diseases. Whole plant based diet is the best way to go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a capitalistic view of everything in the food world, and that includes dog food.

Keto, low carb, even vegan organizations have an agenda, and it's easy to purport something using isolated pieces of research or skewed data. We are really effed up regarding food.

Michael Pollan said it best :
"Eat food. Not too much, mostly plants."

In this statement we understand it all-

We cannot overeat, but we do. We overeat because we live in a consumer driven first world society where food is plentiful, more of a commodity, and underwrites a large service industry. Food is also recreation. Food is advertised to us.

Processed food is really plentiful, and it isn't food, but it's quite an industry. It involves chemicals and so much sugar.

We rely on industrial farms, and we as a country subsidize the farming ndustry to produce mass crops like corn, wheat, soy. Corn products, as a result, are in everything. Animals are also mass harvested in unhealthy and inhumane ways. Their production is unhealthy for us and the environment. Without a doubt, this is one of our largest problems.

So, if you follow the above advice, you will be ahead of the game, but it's really hard to do. There is so much sugar, processed foods, snacks, too many restaurants, too many things surrounded by food and alcohol as a lifestyle. To reign ourselves in takes us out of a culture and lifestyle, really, and that's hard.

Keep your weight manageable. No, BMI isn't everything.

Get enough, yet reasonable exercise. You need to burn off your calories, wherever they come from, but we live in an increasingly sedentary lifestyle- the way we work and live. Our exercise now must be out of context to that, so it takes motivation.
Try to reduce stress, yet we live in an ambitious and capitalistic culture, so good luck with that.
Eat everything in moderation. Meat isn't healthy, and we all know that, but if you are going to eat it, make it a small part of your diet. We think of meals as "the meat" and vegetables as the "sides." Reverse that. It's a paradigm switch.
Eat dessert! But not as much, and not often. Make it special. Stop watching baking shows. They don't help.

No one needs cola or diet cola. If you do, figure out how to stop.

I think the crux of this is right: be reasonable. Eat a reasonably good diet. You know what that is - real food like vegetables, grains, a little protein. If you like carbs and your doctor hasn't told you to stop eating them, eat them. If you like eggs, eat eggs - they are packed with nutrition. If you put on weight then eat a little less and exercise some more and take it off. The Mediterranean diet still seems like the best version of what a good, healthy diet looks like (at least to me) - but make tweaks to your preferences. Try not to eat a lot of cr*p - sugary stuff, processed stuff, junk. You know what junk is - don't play dumb. If you drink a lot of soda, try to be more rigorous about not consuming junk the rest of the time.

I personally AM a vegetarian, and I have a lot of vegans in my life - but I don't think we all need to be so abstemious. If that works for you, then do it. If you still want to eat some salmon, eat some salmon. If you like having a burger once a week, do it - but don't go overboard with the fries and the bacon and all that stuff. You can actually make pretty decent tasting, pretty healthy fries at home if you cut up some potatoes, soak them in water, drain, dump them in a pan with olive oil and roast at 400 for an hour.

Exercise. Do it every day if you can. You don't need a Peloton. But get one if you like!

I hate these vegan documentaries because they just seem so progandistic to me - and so empty of facts - but from an animal welfare perspective I'm glad they exist, since they do seem to turn some people away from consuming animal products. But I guess, just - read everything skeptically, and follow your common sense to a good diet, I guess is my stupid advice.

I am the PP above discussing moderation. I am also a vegetarian, and, frankly do wish meat was never in the equation because I find it to be wrong on so many levels. However, I know that won't happen, and I do believe moderation in everything is the key.

I am a believer in whole plant diets, but I am here to say that vegan documentaries like this one engage in the same propaganda as the keto ones... the ones with all meat no carbs. And, even though I think vegan is optimal, I can't fully do it without a huge lifestyle change that involves not socializing with family and friends, and I do think we can still be healthy eaters without veganism.No, I don't preach to others about
my vegetarianism, either.

[Anonymous]

Research on diets to reduce risk of cardiovascular disease has shown the Mediterranean diet is beneficial. Olive oil, fish, whole grains, etc. Based on research done in Spain in a large population. Here is a link from the Mayo clinic website - very reputable place to find information. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801 Other diets also work, depending on what you are dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a capitalistic view of everything in the food world, and that includes dog food.

Keto, low carb, even vegan organizations have an agenda, and it's easy to purport something using isolated pieces of research or skewed data. We are really effed up regarding food.

Michael Pollan said it best :
"Eat food. Not too much, mostly plants."

In this statement we understand it all-

We cannot overeat, but we do. We overeat because we live in a consumer driven first world society where food is plentiful, more of a commodity, and underwrites a large service industry. Food is also recreation. Food is advertised to us.

Processed food is really plentiful, and it isn't food, but it's quite an industry. It involves chemicals and so much sugar.

We rely on industrial farms, and we as a country subsidize the farming ndustry to produce mass crops like corn, wheat, soy. Corn products, as a result, are in everything. Animals are also mass harvested in unhealthy and inhumane ways. Their production is unhealthy for us and the environment. Without a doubt, this is one of our largest problems.

So, if you follow the above advice, you will be ahead of the game, but it's really hard to do. There is so much sugar, processed foods, snacks, too many restaurants, too many things surrounded by food and alcohol as a lifestyle. To reign ourselves in takes us out of a culture and lifestyle, really, and that's hard.

Keep your weight manageable. No, BMI isn't everything.

Get enough, yet reasonable exercise. You need to burn off your calories, wherever they come from, but we live in an increasingly sedentary lifestyle- the way we work and live. Our exercise now must be out of context to that, so it takes motivation.
Try to reduce stress, yet we live in an ambitious and capitalistic culture, so good luck with that.
Eat everything in moderation. Meat isn't healthy, and we all know that, but if you are going to eat it, make it a small part of your diet. We think of meals as "the meat" and vegetables as the "sides." Reverse that. It's a paradigm switch.
Eat dessert! But not as much, and not often. Make it special. Stop watching baking shows. They don't help.

No one needs cola or diet cola. If you do, figure out how to stop.

I think the crux of this is right: be reasonable. Eat a reasonably good diet. You know what that is - real food like vegetables, grains, a little protein. If you like carbs and your doctor hasn't told you to stop eating them, eat them. If you like eggs, eat eggs - they are packed with nutrition. If you put on weight then eat a little less and exercise some more and take it off. The Mediterranean diet still seems like the best version of what a good, healthy diet looks like (at least to me) - but make tweaks to your preferences. Try not to eat a lot of cr*p - sugary stuff, processed stuff, junk. You know what junk is - don't play dumb. If you drink a lot of soda, try to be more rigorous about not consuming junk the rest of the time.

I personally AM a vegetarian, and I have a lot of vegans in my life - but I don't think we all need to be so abstemious. If that works for you, then do it. If you still want to eat some salmon, eat some salmon. If you like having a burger once a week, do it - but don't go overboard with the fries and the bacon and all that stuff. You can actually make pretty decent tasting, pretty healthy fries at home if you cut up some potatoes, soak them in water, drain, dump them in a pan with olive oil and roast at 400 for an hour.

Exercise. Do it every day if you can. You don't need a Peloton. But get one if you like!

I hate these vegan documentaries because they just seem so progandistic to me - and so empty of facts - but from an animal welfare perspective I'm glad they exist, since they do seem to turn some people away from consuming animal products. But I guess, just - read everything skeptically, and follow your common sense to a good diet, I guess is my stupid advice.

+1 both of these great posts! I will also add just do your best MOST of the time and then go with the flow when you need to. neighbors went vegan and now every event they grill the host on what is in everything. I go out of my way to make vegan for them because I want to be gracious, and I often eat similarly, but not my family or other friends. However, When I am out with others or a guest, I go with the flow as I don’t want my diet choices to burden anyone but me ( as it’s not allergies, medical, etc.)

[Anonymous]

I suspect if you surveyed most people you know or have known, the number of 'healthy' ones who died of cancer will be similar to the ones you'd consider 'unhealthy.' So much of it is a total crapshoot. I know we'd all like to believe otherwise, but that really is the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Research on diets to reduce risk of cardiovascular disease has shown the Mediterranean diet is beneficial. Olive oil, fish, whole grains, etc. Based on research done in Spain in a large population. Here is a link from the Mayo clinic website - very reputable place to find information. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801 Other diets also work, depending on what you are dealing with.

This article encourages drinking wine. DCUM hates drinking...

[Anonymous]

I watched 'The China Study' on Youtube which is really good at breaking down how certain foods such as meat and animal products affect our bodies in different ways and why certain parts of China are now being affected by heart disease and diabetes. The meat does not have toxins from the ground but its too much to type here, so if you are really interested I recommend the above documentary.

I actually now eat more whole grain carbs and the funny thing is I don't have cravings when I eat that way. When people say to cut carbs to lose weight I shake my head, its impossible, the cravings are so bad when you cut carbs.

As others have said my diet is now vegetables and fruit with wholegrains and a little bit of meat every now and then. I don't really care what others think but my blood test results and blood pressure have shown such improvements I will continue eating like this forever. Those results can't be made up, its black and white and the improvement for me was outstanding.