Completely polarized politically - can we last?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typical liberals. “Agree with me or ELSE!”

Get over yourself OP.

No. This is different. This is not like a disagreement in the old days of Democrats and “big tent” Republicans, where people tended to disagree because of having different value systems. For example, the conservative belief in private enterprises and churches as the main provider of social support in a community compared to the liberal belief in the state as the primary provider of social support.

The problem with Trump and his ilk is that they have no values.
Trump has no platform, other than what Trump wants at any particular time.
He is fomenting violence and civil unrest.
There is no value system at play here. Just complete moral bankruptcy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough one.

I am moderate and terrified by what I see from the progressive left and Trump right. My best friend is all MAGA and it's hard not to lump him in with the white nationalists and authoritarians who are Trumps biggest base of support. But also, I try to see it from his side: he is law enforcement and feels like Trump and Trumpism is the only one who will stand up for him. And he has a point.

That being said, my dad is also deep down the Fox News rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. I keep him at arm's length and I have lost respect for him. It's much easier to distance from your parent than your spouse. I don't have sex with him.

Please explain exactly what is "terrifying" about progressives.

Mobbing people who are sitting outside and demanding they conform with their political agenda. Gathering on-line petitions to cancel college professors that do not conform to strict anti-racism ideology. Firing NYT editors for publishing editorials from a sitting US senator whose opinion is supported by a majority of the population. Supporting campus tribunals that deny due process to students accused of sexual assault.

I can give countless examples, but a general chilling of free speech and due process that is absolutely essential to democratic ideals.

This is gaslighting.

Gathering petitions IS free speech in action.

Telling a newspaper you are so angry about an editorial that you are canceling your subscription is a time honored American exercise of free speech. And when the publisher of said paper says to his editor, "What the hell is going on?" And the editor doesn't have a solid defense of the editorial but rather says, "Jeez, actually I didn't even read the editorial before I okayed it," you're damn right he gets fired, for failure to do his job.

What do you think free speech looks like, and how exactly does a sitting American Senator lack for free speech?

These are fair points, but they miss the mark. The right to free speech is right to be free of GOVERNMENT infringement on speech. None of the "terrifying" examples given by the PP involve the government, so they aren't first amendment issues. IOW, our terrified poster doesn't know what "free speech" is.

Oh spare me. I know the difference between government penalties for free speech prosecution and societal sanctions for speech that a fraction of the country now deems out of bounds that was perfectly acceptable yesterday.

And if you see a college student being expelled from school, who lacked due process as "no biggie because it wasn't a government action" or a private company being pressured to fire someone because a small but vocal mob demands action for an opinion that, for example, sexism isn't the reason for the pay gap. That's a grotesque society that most people do not want to be a part of. It chills open and honest dialog. And it frankly terrifies the vast majority of the country that isn't woke.

[Anonymous]

Hah...I live outside the DC area but still in VA. I haven't seen a Biden 2020 lawn sign at all, and Trump signs are everywhere on lawns, as well as bumper stickers. So I'd say 75% of my daily interactions when I'm out like at the store or a restaurant are with Trump voters because that's all we have here. Most people don't talk politics all day, just like most people don't talk religion all day. There are a million other topics to talk about.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the PP who said agree with me or else mentality. Why are liberals like this? All of my neighbors are voting for Biden and you know what? We are friends with all of them. We dont talk politics and I respect their right to a different opinion. But if you vote for Trump you are literally labeled as a racist bigot. And I remember the same vitriol being tossed around when Bush was running so dont say this is unique to Trump--liberals will paint you as a racist no matter who the candidate is if you support them. Some people internalize and care way too much about this stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Typical liberals. “Agree with me or ELSE!”

Get over yourself OP.

No. This is about values. Conservatives that are not vehemently anti-Trump are racists, homophobes, and misogynists. You can't be okay with what the GOP is doing and not be.

OP, you are not alone. I thought my DH was more reasonable but he is so defensive and showing his white male fragility in a way that makes me lose respect for him. I'm struggling hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the PP who said agree with me or else mentality. Why are liberals like this? All of my neighbors are voting for Biden and you know what? We are friends with all of them. We dont talk politics and I respect their right to a different opinion. But if you vote for Trump you are literally labeled as a racist bigot. And I remember the same vitriol being tossed around when Bush was running so dont say this is unique to Trump--liberals will paint you as a racist no matter who the candidate is if you support them. Some people internalize and care way too much about this stuff.

Trump is a racist bigot who is implementing racist and bigoted policies wherever he can. Therefore, if you support this, you are a bad person. This is not hard. What's hard is realizing you're a racist bigot and being too fragile to do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hah...I live outside the DC area but still in VA. I haven't seen a Biden 2020 lawn sign at all, and Trump signs are everywhere on lawns, as well as bumper stickers. So I'd say 75% of my daily interactions when I'm out like at the store or a restaurant are with Trump voters because that's all we have here. Most people don't talk politics all day, just like most people don't talk religion all day. There are a million other topics to talk about.

Still, literally every facet of your life is governed by politics whether you like it or not. I'm guessing you don't talk to black people on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

I would have a hard time with a wife that didn’t recognize that I was able to have differing political views in a marriage and it wasn’t grounds for divorce. I hate this narrative that one is all good and one is all evil. If he treats you well, avoid politics. See, saved you $5000 on marriage therapy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people internalize this stuff so much? I am a leftist with conservative friends. Just don’t go there. There are a million other things to discuss.

that’s bullsh*t. I am very left and one of my best friends is a Republican. She despises Trump. I don’t know if she’s going to vote Biden, but there’s no way I could be friends with her if she was pro-Trump.

OP, my DH has gone off the deep end similar to your spouse. It’s one reason (among others) that we will be separating. He’s basically openly racist/sexist now, to the extent I have to be seriously proactive about countering what he tells our son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Typical liberals. “Agree with me or ELSE!”

Get over yourself OP.

No. This is about values. Conservatives that are not vehemently anti-Trump are racists, homophobes, and misogynists. You can't be okay with what the GOP is doing and not be.

OP, you are not alone. I thought my DH was more reasonable but he is so defensive and showing his white male fragility in a way that makes me lose respect for him. I'm struggling hard.

You are the problem pretending to be so woke. Yes, Trump is a moron, probably a racist and an a$$ but not allowing people to believe in their candidate is not what our country/democracy was built on. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough one.

I am moderate and terrified by what I see from the progressive left and Trump right. My best friend is all MAGA and it's hard not to lump him in with the white nationalists and authoritarians who are Trumps biggest base of support. But also, I try to see it from his side: he is law enforcement and feels like Trump and Trumpism is the only one who will stand up for him. And he has a point.

That being said, my dad is also deep down the Fox News rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. I keep him at arm's length and I have lost respect for him. It's much easier to distance from your parent than your spouse. I don't have sex with him.

Please explain exactly what is "terrifying" about progressives.

DP. I have FB friends who are openly supporting antifa/street violence. That goes beyond “progressive” but it’s definitely scary to see violence embraced by a tactic, wherever it comes from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would have a hard time with a wife that didn’t recognize that I was able to have differing political views in a marriage and it wasn’t grounds for divorce. I hate this narrative that one is all good and one is all evil. If he treats you well, avoid politics. See, saved you $5000 on marriage therapy!

OP posted this: "refusing to denounce the killing of Heather Heyer, Antifa (don't get me started), and now, defending Kyle Rittenhouse and lauding him for his trigger control."

That isn't politics. That isn't a Republican or Democratic platform issue. That is supporting violence and murder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Folks. I highly doubt this is a sincere post. The whole goal is to introduce a bit of whataboutism, it's relative. Stoke fear of "splitting up families". Don't be fooled this is a politically driven post cleverly designed propaganda. People are better at spotting and calling it out in political forums, so they sneak it in casually in other forums, here, family relationships, and even the childcare sections. Don't be fooled.


On the very small chance this is from a person;

i really don't just see how this is true, and how there were zero signs until this year, you even admit, you overlooked it last time. It's always been there. As I have said before I have elsewhere I have Republicans in my family as friends they never voted for trump. Trump-supporting isn't just some political differenc.e You don't have to be a Republican to support him, people just like to say those things to disguise the truth about what they are.
I highly doubt your husband has been able to hide who he really is from your for 22 years. Get out of here with that!

The only difference now is YOU are starting to feel social shame for supporting those things. Or you magically developed a conscience. Had you developed a conscience you would know what to do, since that isn't the case just do what you've been doing for 22 years and keep your head in the sand.

OP here - I guess I'll say thanks (?) for thinking that my post was cleverly designed propaganda. I wish it was.

I have very seriously considered divorce and am still considering it. I don't engage on political discussion, but we have a teen and a tween and they see the world around them and my husband never misses a chance to "engage" if they make a comment on current events.

To those who say, just focus on something else. It's not that easy. He has very little interest in that and it all falls on me. And if Fox is not on, then right wing radio is. It's not like he's disengaged and I'm just fixated on politics.

I don't have "social shame" over supporting "things" and really have no idea what you're talking about there. As far as my husband hiding his true self, I'm not convinced this is his true self. He does have good qualities and I think our friends would be shocked to hear some of the things he now openly says. I actually think he's angry and depressed.

To those of you in the same situation, I feel for you. I really do. Take care of yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough one.

I am moderate and terrified by what I see from the progressive left and Trump right. My best friend is all MAGA and it's hard not to lump him in with the white nationalists and authoritarians who are Trumps biggest base of support. But also, I try to see it from his side: he is law enforcement and feels like Trump and Trumpism is the only one who will stand up for him. And he has a point.

That being said, my dad is also deep down the Fox News rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. I keep him at arm's length and I have lost respect for him. It's much easier to distance from your parent than your spouse. I don't have sex with him.

Please explain exactly what is "terrifying" about progressives.

Mobbing people who are sitting outside and demanding they conform with their political agenda. Gathering on-line petitions to cancel college professors that do not conform to strict anti-racism ideology. Firing NYT editors for publishing editorials from a sitting US senator whose opinion is supported by a majority of the population. Supporting campus tribunals that deny due process to students accused of sexual assault.

I can give countless examples, but a general chilling of free speech and due process that is absolutely essential to democratic ideals.

huh, what democratic and constitutional ideals does sending in the army to take over state law enforcement against their will with the goal of crushing protest serve?

this PP is an object lesson of what OP is dealing with. The crazed twisting and exaggeration of facts, while ignoring what Trump is actually doing. It’s actually not hard to day “hey, I don’t think intimidating civilians in the name of protest is a good thing. I also don’t think the military should be sent in to address state law enforcement matters.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a tough one.

I am moderate and terrified by what I see from the progressive left and Trump right. My best friend is all MAGA and it's hard not to lump him in with the white nationalists and authoritarians who are Trumps biggest base of support. But also, I try to see it from his side: he is law enforcement and feels like Trump and Trumpism is the only one who will stand up for him. And he has a point.

That being said, my dad is also deep down the Fox News rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. I keep him at arm's length and I have lost respect for him. It's much easier to distance from your parent than your spouse. I don't have sex with him.

Please explain exactly what is "terrifying" about progressives.

Mobbing people who are sitting outside and demanding they conform with their political agenda. Gathering on-line petitions to cancel college professors that do not conform to strict anti-racism ideology. Firing NYT editors for publishing editorials from a sitting US senator whose opinion is supported by a majority of the population. Supporting campus tribunals that deny due process to students accused of sexual assault.

I can give countless examples, but a general chilling of free speech and due process that is absolutely essential to democratic ideals.

This is gaslighting.

Gathering petitions IS free speech in action.

Telling a newspaper you are so angry about an editorial that you are canceling your subscription is a time honored American exercise of free speech. And when the publisher of said paper says to his editor, "What the hell is going on?" And the editor doesn't have a solid defense of the editorial but rather says, "Jeez, actually I didn't even read the editorial before I okayed it," you're damn right he gets fired, for failure to do his job.

What do you think free speech looks like, and how exactly does a sitting American Senator lack for free speech?

These are fair points, but they miss the mark. The right to free speech is right to be free of GOVERNMENT infringement on speech. None of the "terrifying" examples given by the PP involve the government, so they aren't first amendment issues. IOW, our terrified poster doesn't know what "free speech" is.

Oh spare me. I know the difference between government penalties for free speech prosecution and societal sanctions for speech that a fraction of the country now deems out of bounds that was perfectly acceptable yesterday.

And if you see a college student being expelled from school, who lacked due process as "no biggie because it wasn't a government action" or a private company being pressured to fire someone because a small but vocal mob demands action for an opinion that, for example, sexism isn't the reason for the pay gap. That's a grotesque society that most people do not want to be a part of. It chills open and honest dialog. And it frankly terrifies the vast majority of the country that isn't woke.

Ok, are you equally chilled by protesters being blinded by police projectiles? if you’re not, you’re being dishonest.