Any Stern Teachers at the Big 3??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, "we don't throw blocks" is still fairly polite if you ask me. I have no problem with pharases or commands using the word "we." In fact, it's commonly used to show children it's the school's policy, or the classroom policy. So they should not blame the teacher! It's more likley to elicit cooperation when words like "we" are used.

I never said I had a problem with direct commands. I have a problem with raising voices and yelling. No teacher should be yelling at a child for benign incidents. I should followup to say we had a chat with the teacher and she has tempered her voice a bit. I'm hearing from the parents of other children, two others to be exact, that their children have also commented on how stern this teacher is. As for those who made snide comments such as "goodluck finding the schoollocated in the Garden of Eden" all I can say is that our school is as close to the Garden of Eden as we'll find on this earth and we are lucky for that. I'm sorry that your schools are in that other more hot and humid place, more to the south.

But you explicitly said in your original post that this teacher did NOT yell. And my daughter mentioned "we don't throw blocks" precisely becaise it was not a direct command and, as a result, some kids would not change their behavior in response to it. (Thinking, perhaps, "hmm, that's interesting, but I like to throw blocks.") I'm not surprised you find that phrasing unobjectionable, but her point was that it's often ineffective. And that's what prompts teachers to use clear/direct/unadorned imperatives such as "Stop that!"

[Anonymous]

Although I'm not a teacher, I do coach a kids sports team. In the formation of any group you go through that cycle of forming/storming/norming and during that storming phase there can be more conflict and testing of boundaries when you're dealing with kids. It's an important time for the teacher to exert and solidfy her authority. That doesn't have to be by yelling. But, a stern "Stop now" as opposed to a more gentle or supportive request might be necessary in a classroom filled with kids otherwise it can quickly devolve into 'herding cats'.

There's usually about two weeks in the season when I coach that my tone is firmer, my looks are more severe and my tolerance might appear to be lower. But, by so doing, we can spend the rest of the season enjoying practices and games, with the kids responding to "kinder" directions and the occasional more stern statement is not often needed.

Especially if you tend to be a parent who has never raised his/her voice and your child is used to only a style of communication that is much more egalitarian, I can imagine this is an adjustment for him. But as other PPs have said, everyone's communication styles are different. And, especially in group settings, the teacher or coach may not always have the time to gently and kindly urge a child towards a particular behavior and instead needs more immediate responsiveness to maintain order across the entire class or team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, "we don't throw blocks" is still fairly polite if you ask me. I have no problem with pharases or commands using the word "we." In fact, it's commonly used to show children it's the school's policy, or the classroom policy. So they should not blame the teacher! It's more likley to elicit cooperation when words like "we" are used.

I never said I had a problem with direct commands. I have a problem with raising voices and yelling. No teacher should be yelling at a child for benign incidents. I should followup to say we had a chat with the teacher and she has tempered her voice a bit. I'm hearing from the parents of other children, two others to be exact, that their children have also commented on how stern this teacher is. As for those who made snide comments such as "goodluck finding the schoollocated in the Garden of Eden" all I can say is that our school is as close to the Garden of Eden as we'll find on this earth and we are lucky for that. I'm sorry that your schools are in that other more hot and humid place, more to the south.

But you explicitly said in your original post that this teacher did NOT yell. And my daughter mentioned "we don't throw blocks" precisely becaise it was not a direct command and, as a result, some kids would not change their behavior in response to it. (Thinking, perhaps, "hmm, that's interesting, but I like to throw blocks.") I'm not surprised you find that phrasing unobjectionable, but her point was that it's often ineffective. And that's what prompts teachers to use clear/direct/unadorned imperatives such as "Stop that!"

Yes DC said his teacher did not yell, but she did raise her voice - and I object to that. "You may not throw blocks" or "We don't throw blocks here" are both fine by me so long as the teacher does not raise her voice oryell. PSaying please is great. But commands can be stated in a polite way evenwithout saying please - by simply not raising your voice. For those kids who shrug off "We don't throw blocks in here" one can say, "Please do not throw blocks" and if it continues they can get a chat with the teacher privately about it to find out why they are doing that and to help them to realize that throwing blocks canhurt some one or break something. There are so many alternatives to "stop that!" I think that the vast majority of kids respond to this kind of disciplining. Those who don't may need a bit longer to respond. Very few kids don't respond at all. If there are those wthat are not respondign to polite disciplining or positive disciplining, then they likely have other issues that need addressing - it's not just a behavioral problem, there's something more going on with that child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I was feeling better reading your last comment and thinking that the voice of moderation had taken over. Until your last comment. Really unnecessary.

I do hope that you think about how attitude and behavior towards others will affect your child's relationships with other kids. If other parents find you offputting, you may see playdates few and far between.

OP here. Why didn't you write this to the poster who sarcastically wished me good luck at finding a school in the Garden of Eden? Sorry, but Im not obligated to turn the other cheek when I feel I need to defend or stand up for my child. That poster had the first obligation to me to control herself in her reply. I don't befriend mothers who would ever make comments like that to me. I befriend those mothers who share my values and beliefs, at least as far as how our children should be treated and how they should behave. And I allow DC to play with those children who are raised by such mothers because their kids are oftentimes like DC also. There are now TWO mothers who have complained that that teacher is too stern. One mom said if her daughter were ever spoken to the way DC was, she wouldn't even go to that teacher to discuss it, she would go to the Director of the School to complain. While you may not agree with these opinions, they represent values and beliefs that some parents share. And there are enough parents out there who believe as I do for DC to still have plentiful playdates...at minimum once or twice per week for the past year at least. So the parents I choose to surround myself with are likely just from a different pool of people. Maybe more sensitive or particular about their child's treatment.

[Anonymous]

OP - You did cast the first stone and continued to attack other posters throughout this thread. I say this with great sincerity - I wish for you to receive the wonderful gift of awareness and self-evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: For those kids who shrug off "We don't throw blocks in here" one can say, "Please do not throw blocks" and if it continues they can get a chat with the teacher privately about it to find out why they are doing that and to help them to realize that throwing blocks canhurt some one or break something. There are so many alternatives to "stop that!" I think that the vast majority of kids respond to this kind of disciplining. Those who don't may need a bit longer to respond. Very few kids don't respond at all.

Meanwhile, some other kid gets hit by a block.

No reason "stop that" isn't an appropriate first step, with explanation to follow, if necessary.

[Anonymous]

This thread is helpful for me as I try to figure out whether to send my kid to private or public. I want my kid to be disciplined in school, if necessary, and I can't stand the idea that some teacher, as an authority figure, will be expected to "politely" ask my child to stop doing something that breaks the rules or couls harm another child. No wonder so many kids these days are brats.

[Anonymous]

Op - my kids have had "stern" teachers in the past, and I understand how it can be unsettling when your child comes home and reports an upsetting incident. You have every right to investigate the situation - and honestly, some of the comments here are incredibly insensitive and offering advice on many things other than her original post. That said - I have one question for you - and that is how did you respond to your child when they told you they were upset? I think this is an important part of the equation as you evaluate this situation.

[Anonymous]

Let he or she who is without sin cast the first block....

[Anonymous]

Stop that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop that!

Ha, I couldn't resist. This was getting a bit ridiculous. OP appears clueless to the possible consequences of her conduct. In addition to her DC's 529 contributions, OP needs to put away a little money for the kid's inevitable therapy needs.

[Anonymous]

A pp's post jogged my memory about schools that are more permissive and those more strict. My daughter attended a progressive school that was very loosey-goosey about discipline. There was a kid who was able to commit all sorts of terrible things to other kids for a year and a half before he was finally asked to leave.

She is now in a more traditional school that you understand at first experience to have a set of no-nonsense rules. The kids don't need to get into trouble to know how they should behave. None of the teachers are considered to be mean (in fact, they are all loved) but we really appreciate the black and white rules. Leaves no room for doubt.

[Anonymous]

I think that the progressive = loosey-gooesy and traditional = no-nonsense is a dichotomy doesn't really work.

You can have a progressive school where the rules are few but strictly enforced or a traditional school where everything is micro-managed except that some kids (parents of big donors/notables) get away with a helluva lot (drug use, cheating, harassment of other students). Discipline and pedagogy really are separable.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like your child(ren) maybe attend a progressive school, 15:20. We spent a number of years at one with some serious, long-term bullying issues prevalent through most of the LS grades that the school never addressed, refused to addressed or made the parents address.

We're now at a traditional school that doesn't need to enforce and isn't micro-managed. Communication is excellent and everyone knows the rules because the parameters are clearly defined. The kids sign an honor code so they are very aware of their behavior and the consequences of breaking the rules.

I understand that there can be extremes but my experience with families in similar progressive schools is that the inherent philosophy behind the principles of progressive education tends to support more of kids doing what they want and teachers practicing more of a laissez faire attitude, aka " kids need to self-advocate and it is up to them to define their path." I have personally experienced administration loathe to even make suggestions to parents.

I know there are exceptions. I'm just sharing my own experience and commenting on the pattern I'm seeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your child(ren) maybe attend a progressive school, 15:20. We spent a number of years at one with some serious, long-term bullying issues prevalent through most of the LS grades that the school never addressed, refused to addressed or made the parents address.

We're now at a traditional school that doesn't need to enforce and isn't micro-managed. Communication is excellent and everyone knows the rules because the parameters are clearly defined. The kids sign an honor code so they are very aware of their behavior and the consequences of breaking the rules.

I understand that there can be extremes but my experience with families in similar progressive schools is that the inherent philosophy behind the principles of progressive education tends to support more of kids doing what they want and teachers practicing more of a laissez faire attitude, aka " kids need to self-advocate and it is up to them to define their path." I have personally experienced administration loathe to even make suggestions to parents.

I know there are exceptions. I'm just sharing my own experience and commenting on the pattern I'm seeing.

Where is the pattern - other than the two schools?