When did you get over your spouse's affair? Or did you?
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Anonymous
hi newbie! you must not seem to understand the rules of DCUM. Women get mostly a free pass on everything; men get virtually kicked in the nuts every single time. |
Anonymous
To respond to your comments: "you could learn a thing or two about respecting the many people Perel’s work has helped" -- I actually don't have any data on how many people Perel's work has helped. Has she done any studies or independent follow up on her clients? Yes, I know she is a "star" but to me that doesn't necessarily equate to good data about her approach, merely that she is presenting a different view and one that offers hope (perhaps hope in vain) to many. "She released a book on Tuesday .... I doubt you’re as familiar with her work as you claim to be." -- Well certainly, if she has a new book out just last week, I haven't yet read it. If it is as you describe, I'll be interested to read it. I have listened to her Ted talk, and to her presenting her views on her own podcasts of couples therapy as well as other's podcasts about her and with her, like on Dear Sugar. If her new book is as you describe, it sounds like Perel is taking seriously and responding to some of the major criticism of her work. And yet, I wonder in her new book if she describes how one can identify the perpetrator spouse who is, "capable of self-examination"? Are we just supposed to continue to "work through a crisis" assuming that the spouse is "capable of self-examination" until we find out otherwise, until the spouse perpetrates again? What is the definition of "a “narcissistic pr!ck”, as she calls some cheating men?" I would have thought that the act of infidelity, the extreme deception, betrayal and elevation of one's own immediate needs above those of any other, would have been the very definition of "narcissistic pr!ck"? What more is required to fall into this category? Isn't it an affair a good indication that someone isn't "capable of self-examination" to begin with, otherwise they would have found one of the many ways of resolving conflict explicitly, directly and transparently with a spouse? And, finally, I am offended by your personal slam at me - Yes, I’m sure it was easy and felt good for you to run to friends and therapists who will sanctify you and demonize your spouse.. This is exactly the kind of abusive approach that the perpetrator spouse and many psychologists still heap upon the victim. Or, as many in the profession refer to this classic abuse tactic -- DARVO: Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. The cheating spouse argues that he is not the perpetrator but the victim -- the cheated upon spouse had some flaw, therefore the cheater was justified in cheating. In my view, this is NEVER acceptable. I am human; therefore, I am flawed, but that doesn't mean that abuse against me is justified. I am flawed, but I still have the right to expect you to come to me and say, "I am unable to be monogamous with you any more; either we divorce or we discuss terms for a non-monogamous marriage." For me, this kind of thinking -- you are flawed, therefore I am justified in abusing you -- is too reminiscent of the old-fashioned views we used to hold on other forms of abuse. Before physical domestic abuse was criminalized (and even, for a long time, afterwards), society looked to the woman as the cause of the man's abuse. If only the wife were be nicer, kept a better house, was more compliant sexually, did not make too many demands, etc., well, then their husbands wouldn't have had to hit them. I think we have progressed enough that women can, should and do exert their rights not to be abused -- not to be hit, not to be emotionally or verbally abused and not to be sexually coerced. The fact that I demand this doesn't make me "sanctimonious". |
Anonymous
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To ask for statistics on people she has helped in therapy is a bit strange, because the metrics for success in these kinds of situations are so squishy. For example, I'd hardly call it a "success" if a couple managed to stay married but remained miserable. She's currently on a national speaking tour, and she's sold out in many cities. She obviously helps a lot of people, including people on this board.
I don't think she was ever "pro-affair". Even in her Ted talks (long before her most recent book), she describes affairs as similar to a lethal cancer. She says in her Ted talk that just because a person can survive a horrible bout of cancer and be stronger from it doesn't mean that she'd ever recommend that people get cancer. Perel's parents were Holocaust survivors, and she grew up in a town full of Holocaust survivors. She says that there were two types of people in the town, "those who didn't die, and those who came back to life". She says that her parents were the kind of people who learned to thrive after tragedy. So I don't think that she shrugs off the tragedy of infidelity, as much as she just is very steeped in a worldview where people should move forward. She emphasizes that she has lived with the wreckage of infidelity every day in her office for the past 30 years, and knows it well. She also writes extensively about how sometimes happy people cheat, which I think underscores her belief that affairs aren't always the fault of the cheated-on spouse. While I don't speak for her, I think she would look for a few things to determine how capable of self-examination a couple is. For the cheater and the cheated-on spouse, I think she looks at the conditions in which the affair occurred, and she says she also looks at how narcissistic each member of the couple is. She says it usually doesn't bode well if either member of the couple is deeply narcissistic, because they will always make it all about them in the long-term. She expects both spouses to be able to take responsibility for the negative aspects of the relationship before the affair occurred. How are you supposed to know? I think you know over time. But, yeah, you'll never "know" for sure with any human being. At some point, if you can find it in your heart, you have to trust. If you can't, then you probably have to split up. I think in some infidelities, there is a clear "perpetrator" and "victim", but in many infidelities there isn't. You clearly don't think that, which is understandable, as the betrayal you experienced is particularly grotesque. We can agree to disagree. Your partner being willing to jeopardize the life of your baby is about as awful as it gets, but I'd slow your roll a bit when you get into this line of thinking that you're somehow the moral authority on all people who have had a particular experience. Grow up. I am sincerely sorry that I offended you with what I said, but I said it because I believe it is the truth. You cannot put billions of unfaithful people since the beginning of time into one category, just because it fits neatly with your black-and-white worldview. As Perel says, "Certainly, millions of people can't all be pathological." Many cheated-on spouses happy contribute to problems within the relationship and then expect to be publicly canonized "Saint Cheated Upon" because it feels good. |
Anonymous
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We're currently trying to recover from emotional infidelity and have come across some EP material. Some resonates; some doesn't. FWIW, in our case, one partner just upping and leaving because of the affair just isn't the financially feasible solution, and both of us are trying to rebuild.
One thing EP said in an article that speaks to both of us is this: "I tell my patients that most of us in the West today will have two or three marriages or committed relationships in our lifetime. For those daring enough to try, they may find themselves having all of them with the same person. An affair may spell the end of a first marriage, as well as the beginning of a new one." |
Anonymous
| Congrats, you got a get out of marriage free card. |
Anonymous
| You never get over it. I stayed for 1.5 years. Divorcing now. Hardest thing was making the decision to divorce. Its an uphill battle now but getting better. |
Anonymous
Ok, REALLY ?? Because if women cheated every time their DH was emotionally unavailable there'd be bastard babies everywhere. |
Anonymous
You paid money for this bullshit?! |
Anonymous
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Man I am so sorry that there are so many bitter angry people in the world that have failed marriages that they would advise you to divorce your husband, forget your committment and vow, not worry about your family structure and move on with your life. Are these experts going to be in the house with you when you have to shuffle custody schedules or do all the running around on a daily basis because your husband is not there to do this with you. Are they going to help you financially? Are they going to dry your eyes for you when you are crying over the lost of your best friend, husband, lover, father of your children, etc.? Please don't listen to strangers (that includes me). There is nothing wrong with staying married even when your spouse has had an affair. Every marriage has problems and every spouse in the marriage is responsible for their behavior in the marriage (i did not say you were responsible for his behavior). The point is you have a choice to think about the past or think about your future. It is not wrong to trust your husband again. It is not wrong to believe he can change. This process is really not about him anymore, its about you. Can you weather the storm right now? All these people who are telling you they are divorced and its better this way, ask them if they could have ever believed that when they said "i do" on their wedding day that they would be divorced X number of years later? They would have said no it won't happen to them. Well it did happen to them and it happened to me and it happened to you. The same way they didn't think there would be infidelity or divorce and they were wrong, can't they also be wrong about not loving and trusting the person who hurt them? You can survive this and you can have a better marriage for it. While some people will go on to marriage #2, and #3 and more, you are staying in your marriage because you made a committment. You wonder why the divorce rate is higher with each subsequent marriage? Because people don't take accounability and responsibility for their own failures in the relationship. They say oh he cheated, its all his fault, and they move on. Well I say, to the one who can stick it out, that you will be better, and stronger for it in the end. Your kids will be happier for it, your relationship will be stronger for it and the growth and development you may achieve out of it will make it all the more worthwhile. Couples' therapy is great but you may need to go to counseling alone also to work on techniques that will help you deal with those thoughts. To answer your question since you really didn't ask us if you should get a divorce: I don't think you ever get over an affair. It becomes a part of your story. Its the story that you will share with your grandchildren before they get married to say look this is what we went through but we made it. I agree with the person who said you have to let that old marriage die and look to creating something beautiful and new with your husband. You can walk around on pins and needles wondering if he is being honest or truthful or you can allow yourself to be free and love him simply because he is your husband and that is your responsbility. If he is a good man, the guilt and shame has done its job and he can never erase his actions but if he is staying with you and he is going to counseling, take these as signs that he is trying and don't demand more from him because he may still be struggling with some leftover emotions himself. Be happy because he can't make you happy. Be strong for yourself and your kids. Love yourself and love your husband unconditionally. Sorry I can't narrow down a time when you may "get over this", but I can tell you it gets better. There are some days where you want to scream that he did this to you and your family and that's ok but then you just let it go. In my case, I surrender it to God. A few resources that have empirical research behind it that may be useful to you are:
a book titled: The Divorce Remedy: The Proven 7-Step Program for Saving Your Marriage Michele Weiner Davis a website: http://bit.ly/29YLtQ3 another website: http://bit.ly/2xPnPiU |
Anonymous
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You will never get over it. At best you learn to live with it but unless you get a lobotomy you'll always have the painful memories.
Some bells can't be unrung. |
Anonymous
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Wow some incredibly strong language has been posted describing sexual infidelity as: "abusive"... "traumatic" ... "sexual coercion" ... "nuclear bomb" ... even "domestic violence"
I will not try to argue against these statements. Clearly, for you, cheating is the ultimate betrayal within a marriage. Perhaps you are 100% correct, that's not my point. Nor will I try to blame you (the "victim") for being cheated upon: nobody ever "deserves" to be cheated on. Having said that, if you are one who believes the marital sex relationship is sooooo sacred that even a 1-time transgression is completely unforgivable, I would like to ask you something. To what extent do you actually prioritize sex with your spouse? Are you an enthusiastic partner? How often do you initiate? How often do you reject your spouse (either explicitly or preemptively)? Has your frequency gone down over time due to your disinterest? Again, nothing would excuse a cheater's bad behavior. Yet (even if your marriage has been faithful) I find it completely hypocritical for somebody to portray sexual infidelity as an unforgivable sin, meanwhile they are not actively pursuing their own spouse for sex on a regular basis. You cannot have it both ways! If sex is so almighty important, then you make it a priority in your marriage. If not, you certainly don't deserve to be cheated on, but you are a bad partner who is "sexually betraying" your spouse by ignoring this "all important" thing. In such cases, you should either open the marriage, or divorce. But don't be a hypocritical bad partner. Do not wait around to declare yourself the innocent victim of a cheating spouse. Step up now, and decide: either sex is all-important, or it is not. |
Anonymous
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I don't think the real evil in infidelity is the sex act itself; it's the dishonesty, the emotional betrayal, and the violation of your trust in one another. Yeah, knowing your partner had sex with someone else is really bad, but that's not the worst part IMHO.
So, no, I don't equate "not actively pursuing sex" with infidelity. Certainly sex is important and should be pursued by both partners often, and lack of sex is often a symptom of other problems in the relationship. But I don't think it's even the same ballpark as infidelity. |
Anonymous
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I think 22:49 has a sensible perspective, though people won't read the post because it lacks paragraphs. It takes a lot of work, maturity, and change to get past infidelity in a marriage.
To the BOLD-obsessed poster, okay we get it. You're dissatisfied with your sex life. The question was about emotionally moving forward after infidelity. |
Anonymous
| 9:34 again. I just noticed your reference to "domestic violence." I think physical violence is also an entirely different category of problem than either lack of sex or infidelity. Just as suggesting lack of sex is similar to infidelity doesn't do justice to the pain and trauma infidelity causes, so too does suggesting infidelity is similar to domestic violence discount the evil of physical violence. Betrayal of trust is simply different than physical violence. I understand the urge to use graphic and exaggerated language to portray the pain, but that's not a good comparison IMHO. |
Anonymous
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To what extent do you actually prioritize sex with your spouse? A lot, we were having sex 3 times a week when he started his 1st affair.
Are you an enthusiastic partner? Yes, more enthusiastic than he was since his new sex partner is obviously more interesting. How often do you initiate? Every Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday. he worked Monday, Tuesday nights and I usually have too much wine on Friday. How often do you reject your spouse (either explicitly or preemptively)? Only when he tried to initiate during my son's birthday party with 10 kids in the basement. Once I rejected him after I was dressed for a wedding and his parents had just arrived to the house since we were driving together. Once I rejected him in the parking garage after the movies. Has your frequency gone down over time due to your disinterest? Sure, once he started his affair, it went down due to his disinterest. BTW, since you are going to ask. I am not fat, I work, I make more money than him, the house is clean, I cook. Do you have any other questions? or reasons I caused an affair. The affair took his attention and interest away from me, not the other way around. Affairs are about lying, deceit and taking energy away from the marriage not about cumming. If you don't want to be married leave, don't have an affair. Yes, people are not perfect but if perfection is the stick to which I am married I don't want to be married. It is no different than saying "the bitch had it coming"... you don't hit your spouse, you don't cheat on your spouse, you don't blame them for your drinking. |