Is it tough for nova kids to make friends at Ivys?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Figure 50-75 a year at the best nova high schools get into UVA, plus the kids old and younger than you. Plus local kids you know from sports, clubs, church, family connections. Easy to get to UVA and know a few hundred faces.

versus getting to an Ivy and loosely knowing maybe 1-3 kids.

Big difference.

I went to an Ivy from a private school (the only kid from my class at that particular Ivy for that particular year, maybe a max of 10 from my school were at the Ivy at any given time and we averaged 75 kids a year). That aside, was it strange and scaring going to a college where I didn't know anyone? Sure. And I coped.

Every college is going to have incoming freshmen who struggle to settle in. Sometimes it's personality (shy, reticent), sometimes it's sheer bad luck (placed into a dorm where, for some reason, person has nothing in common with the rest of the floor and can't make friends). And each year there are students who transfer to other schools for a fresh start.

Coming from NOVA, which in the eyes of the rest of the country is already a privileged area that sends hundreds of students to the Ivies each year, is no different than coming from anywhere else in the US (substitute affluent suburb of X city for NOVA).

When articles talk about "middle class" kids struggling to fit in at the Ivies they're really talking about lower middle class kids from anonymous places or small towns where very few people go to the Ivies, let alone the flagship state university. NOVA does not fit in this category.

+1.

I went to an FCPS public and then to Princeton. When I got there I knew three others from my high school who were already there. It was a bit of a culture shock to meet wealthier kids, primarily from either the New England prep schools or from NYC. But there were tons of other kids from suburban public schools similar to FCPS, and some of the kids coming from private schools were from areas where the public schools aren't on par with FCPS, APS or MCPS. It might have been easier as a freshman to have gone to UVA with over 30 other kids from my graduating class, but it wasn't tough to make new friends by any stretch.

I do recall a couple of classmates transferring. One was a woman from NoVa (Robinson) who did, in fact, transfer to UVA. I never found out why she left. The other was a very bright guy who didn't like the social atmosphere and transferred to Haverford, which he thought would be quieter and more academically focused. But, overall, even the quirkiest of kids can find their niche at the Ivies (even the smallest, Dartmouth, has over 4000 undergraduates).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Do you mean like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

Because now it's more like the kids from "extreme wealth" are surrounded by middle and upper middle class kids (and have to adjust to the fact that the latter typically work harder and are more ambitious than they are).

No modern novels. The Love Affairs By Nathaniel P. by Adelle Waldman made this complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Do you mean like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

Because now it's more like the kids from "extreme wealth" are surrounded by middle and upper middle class kids (and have to adjust to the fact that the latter typically work harder and are more ambitious than they are).

No modern novels. The Love Affairs By Nathaniel P. by Adelle Waldman made this complaint.

I haven't read the book - perhaps I should - but be mindful that it's a bit of a rite of passage for middle and upper middle class kids to emphasize their adjustments to the Ivy League to underscore that they were not themselves "to the manor born."

It's left to others, of course, to point out that they may have been "to the very nice subdivision born" or "to the highly-ranked suburban high school bred."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Do you mean like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

Because now it's more like the kids from "extreme wealth" are surrounded by middle and upper middle class kids (and have to adjust to the fact that the latter typically work harder and are more ambitious than they are).

No modern novels. The Love Affairs By Nathaniel P. by Adelle Waldman made this complaint.

I haven't read the book - perhaps I should - but be mindful that it's a bit of a rite of passage for middle and upper middle class kids to emphasize their adjustments to the Ivy League to underscore that they were not themselves "to the manor born."

It's left to others, of course, to point out that they may have been "to the very nice subdivision born" or "to the highly-ranked suburban high school bred."

Oh the author is actually really careful to point out Nate's privileges and blind spots. It's sort of the point of the novel (the way a "nice" guy raised progressively in the supposedly feminist 90s sees and treats women). It's a really good read, if you like fiction.

As to a point that a PP made, in the novel it's not really money that trips Nate up but more the cultural knowledge he lacks: how the other kids dress, what kinds of cars they drive, what they talk about, where they've traveled. Also the extended social network based on boarding school, certain exclusive independent day schools, and summer camps up and down the east coast that he's not tied into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Do you mean like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

Because now it's more like the kids from "extreme wealth" are surrounded by middle and upper middle class kids (and have to adjust to the fact that the latter typically work harder and are more ambitious than they are).

No modern novels. The Love Affairs By Nathaniel P. by Adelle Waldman made this complaint.

I haven't read the book - perhaps I should - but be mindful that it's a bit of a rite of passage for middle and upper middle class kids to emphasize their adjustments to the Ivy League to underscore that they were not themselves "to the manor born."

It's left to others, of course, to point out that they may have been "to the very nice subdivision born" or "to the highly-ranked suburban high school bred."

Oh the author is actually really careful to point out Nate's privileges and blind spots. It's sort of the point of the novel (the way a "nice" guy raised progressively in the supposedly feminist 90s sees and treats women). It's a really good read, if you like fiction.

As to a point that a PP made, in the novel it's not really money that trips Nate up but more the cultural knowledge he lacks: how the other kids dress, what kinds of cars they drive, what they talk about, where they've traveled. Also the extended social network based on boarding school, certain exclusive independent day schools, and summer camps up and down the east coast that he's not tied into.

I think kids who get into Ivies tend to pick up some of this "cultural knowledge" by osmosis, and that it's probably not as relevant today as it might have been even 20-30 years ago. But in any event, the fact that some fraction of Ivy kids come from such "extended social networks" won't stop others from making plenty of friends.

[Anonymous]

It can be tough for introverts to make friends in the early months at any college. But some people just take longer to relax and get to know people and have those friendships form.

I think this is more generally true across the board than a particular college being harder for someone form a particular geographical area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know there are strivers from all over the world at the Ivys, but I heard the largest, most social bunches are NE, NYC, California private school kids that sort of know each other going in, making it a challenge for unconnected random kids. My colleague's daughter went to Brown because she wanted to start fresh, but then transferred to UVA because she struggled to make good bonds. In retrospect she preferred knowing a lot of people on campus. Wondering if that's a common complaint.

No, it's not "common" - but all kids are different. I went to Penn. Lots of DMVers are at all of these schools. But many kids never find their niche at a particularly college and are happier elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Do you mean like F. Scott Fitzgerald?

Because now it's more like the kids from "extreme wealth" are surrounded by middle and upper middle class kids (and have to adjust to the fact that the latter typically work harder and are more ambitious than they are).

No modern novels. The Love Affairs By Nathaniel P. by Adelle Waldman made this complaint.

I haven't read the book - perhaps I should - but be mindful that it's a bit of a rite of passage for middle and upper middle class kids to emphasize their adjustments to the Ivy League to underscore that they were not themselves "to the manor born."

It's left to others, of course, to point out that they may have been "to the very nice subdivision born" or "to the highly-ranked suburban high school bred."

Oh the author is actually really careful to point out Nate's privileges and blind spots. It's sort of the point of the novel (the way a "nice" guy raised progressively in the supposedly feminist 90s sees and treats women). It's a really good read, if you like fiction.

As to a point that a PP made, in the novel it's not really money that trips Nate up but more the cultural knowledge he lacks: how the other kids dress, what kinds of cars they drive, what they talk about, where they've traveled. Also the extended social network based on boarding school, certain exclusive independent day schools, and summer camps up and down the east coast that he's not tied into.

I think kids who get into Ivies tend to pick up some of this "cultural knowledge" by osmosis, and that it's probably not as relevant today as it might have been even 20-30 years ago. But in any event, the fact that some fraction of Ivy kids come from such "extended social networks" won't stop others from making plenty of friends.

Penn grad again. Ok, Penn may not be HYPS -- but agree to dial back the BS here. There's a ton of diversity (including socio and economic) & ways to find your tribe.

[Anonymous]

The filthy rich cosmopolitan kids find each other immediately. Everyone is friends of friends, has that carefree rich kid vibe.

The upper middle class strivers can feel excluded and "poor".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The filthy rich cosmopolitan kids find each other immediately. Everyone is friends of friends, has that carefree rich kid vibe.

The upper middle class strivers can feel excluded and "poor".

The upper middle class strivers find each other immediately. Everyone comes from generally similar backgrounds, and is working hard to do well.

The filthy rich cosmopolitan kids can feel obsolete and "out of place."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's hard for everybody to make friends at Ivies. I just toured Yale with my son and one of the first things I noticed was that almost everyone was alone. Walking alone, eating alone, studying alone. In the 2.5 hours I was on campus, I saw literally only three groups of friends. It was strange, and kind of disheartening.

I'm an introvert, and I found it pretty easy. I got in to a school filled with people like me. Nothing is that different today.

When did you tour? That sounds totally bizarre and nothing like what Yale is actually like. It's really easy to make friends and I knew very few kids whose friends were predominantly people they knew or had any connection to before starting. I think the random assignment of residential colleges and suitemates + focus on residential college life (especially at the beginning) makes it really easy to get to know a wide variety of people. Then, most/many people find their other BFFs through their ECs.

[Anonymous]

DS went to Stanford from a public high school, knowing nobody. He took his time but made friends. He's just shy and takes some time to warm up and let his personality show.

He didn't have any trouble once he put in the effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to go to the same HS to know each other. They might have met on their travel soccer team, their middle school robotics club and/or at horseback riding or theater camp.

"Hundreds? What high school is sending hundreds of kids to UVA?"

Other than maybe T.J. in a good year, I don't know what this person is talking about. Our high school sent two (yes NOVA). No one comes in from NOVA knowing "100s". DC knew maybe ten from church, prior private schools, and - something not available when we all went to college - getting to know one another on Facebook pages that someone in each incoming class sets up. When I went to college I knew one person, a year ahead of me, from college. DC goes in "knowing" from facebook probably 40 kids from all around the world. They made a point of meeting up the first night after drop-off for dinner. I thought that was such a better way of getting to know one another than what I experienced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a common complaint made in novels written by former Ivy Leaguers. So the perception that true middle class kids struggle a bit socially when surrounded by many with extreme wealth must have some basis in reality.

Things have changed a bit since Fitzgerald's time at Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't have to go to the same HS to know each other. They might have met on their travel soccer team, their middle school robotics club and/or at horseback riding or theater camp.

"Hundreds? What high school is sending hundreds of kids to UVA?"

Other than maybe T.J. in a good year, I don't know what this person is talking about. Our high school sent two (yes NOVA). No one comes in from NOVA knowing "100s".

My God you UVA moms are so pedantic and obtuse. Top nova high schools send dozens per year, kids know older and younger peers from their school, and others from the neighborhood = knowing 100s. Stop with your pathetic crusade to make UVA seem like some hyper-exclusive club -- it's not and it never will be.

http://www.arlingtonmagazine.com/college-admissions-snapshot/