Base Schools Sending Most Students to TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley isn't any more special because a lot of it's base school kids go to TJ. These are mostly kids who do not spend a single instructional day in Langley. It has to do with the feeder system. As a PP pointed out, Carson splits pretty evenly between 4 HSs. If all of the Carson kids going to TJ fed to the same HS, that HS would have more the twice the transfers out to TJ that Langley has (80-90 kids a year x 4 years). So this list is meaningless.

The list is quite informative, at least for those who know the high school boundaries and feeders. As to your other point, if all the Carson kids going to TJ went to a single high school, that school would be far larger than Langley or any other public high school in the region, so that's a much more far-fetched notion to entertain.

what difference does it make? Base schools (as the thread title uses that term) don’t send kids to TJ.

Are you being deliberately dense? People know the HS pyramids and feeders. This indicates that, statistically, kids who live within the Langley boundaries are the most likely to end up at TJ. Or, looked at it from the opposite perspective, it tells you that Langley "loses" more kids to TJ than any other school.

It's fairly obvious the data upsets you for some reason. Chill.

But, high school pyramids don't correlate directly to the feeders, especially once AAP gets thrown in. Which is why you end up with screwy situations like Carson, which is a "super center" feeding into 4 high schools. Obviously, all the South Lakes kids aren't going to the South Lakes feeders-- that would be Hughes MS (not Carson) and schools like Sunrise ES, which takes lots of the Oakton AAP kids. Lots of pyramids are like this. So this doesn't give you a good picture of the quality of education that AAP kids are getting leading up to high school. So what the numbers tell you are that most TJ kids are in the Langley/McLean/Marshall area (the highest SES in the county) and the Western part of the County (SL/Chantilly/Westfield). Weirdly, chunks of Oakton also come from Herndon-- and this is all heavily affluent Asian. So this list says something about Fairfax County demographics, but nothing about the quality of the high schools-- unless you think Westfield is outperforming Madison, for example -- which is what this list would lead you to beleive.

You're making the interpretation of the data far more complicated than it ought to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

^this sums it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

Yes, yes and yes.

There's not an algorithm of which school is best. It's which students are best. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you want your kids to succeed, don't try to figure out which elementary school leads to which middle school. Figure out how to work with your own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley isn't any more special because a lot of it's base school kids go to TJ. These are mostly kids who do not spend a single instructional day in Langley. It has to do with the feeder system. As a PP pointed out, Carson splits pretty evenly between 4 HSs. If all of the Carson kids going to TJ fed to the same HS, that HS would have more the twice the transfers out to TJ that Langley has (80-90 kids a year x 4 years). So this list is meaningless.

The list is quite informative, at least for those who know the high school boundaries and feeders. As to your other point, if all the Carson kids going to TJ went to a single high school, that school would be far larger than Langley or any other public high school in the region, so that's a much more far-fetched notion to entertain.

what difference does it make? Base schools (as the thread title uses that term) don’t send kids to TJ.

Are you being deliberately dense? People know the HS pyramids and feeders. This indicates that, statistically, kids who live within the Langley boundaries are the most likely to end up at TJ. Or, looked at it from the opposite perspective, it tells you that Langley "loses" more kids to TJ than any other school.

It's fairly obvious the data upsets you for some reason. Chill.

But, high school pyramids don't correlate directly to the feeders, especially once AAP gets thrown in. Which is why you end up with screwy situations like Carson, which is a "super center" feeding into 4 high schools. Obviously, all the South Lakes kids aren't going to the South Lakes feeders-- that would be Hughes MS (not Carson) and schools like Sunrise ES, which takes lots of the Oakton AAP kids. Lots of pyramids are like this. So this doesn't give you a good picture of the quality of education that AAP kids are getting leading up to high school. So what the numbers tell you are that most TJ kids are in the Langley/McLean/Marshall area (the highest SES in the county) and the Western part of the County (SL/Chantilly/Westfield). Weirdly, chunks of Oakton also come from Herndon-- and this is all heavily affluent Asian. So this list says something about Fairfax County demographics, but nothing about the quality of the high schools-- unless you think Westfield is outperforming Madison, for example -- which is what wthis list would lead you to beleive.

You're making the interpretation of the data far more complicated than it ought to be.

Well, the feeder system is insanely complicated. And if you are looking at educational quality, you have to look at the feeder ESs and MSs that are best preparing kids for TJ, and not the HSs, that play no role. And the ES/MSs do not directly correlate to the pyramids HSs in a lot of cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Langley isn't any more special because a lot of it's base school kids go to TJ. These are mostly kids who do not spend a single instructional day in Langley. It has to do with the feeder system. As a PP pointed out, Carson splits pretty evenly between 4 HSs. If all of the Carson kids going to TJ fed to the same HS, that HS would have more the twice the transfers out to TJ that Langley has (80-90 kids a year x 4 years). So this list is meaningless.

The list is quite informative, at least for those who know the high school boundaries and feeders. As to your other point, if all the Carson kids going to TJ went to a single high school, that school would be far larger than Langley or any other public high school in the region, so that's a much more far-fetched notion to entertain.

what difference does it make? Base schools (as the thread title uses that term) don’t send kids to TJ.

Are you being deliberately dense? People know the HS pyramids and feeders. This indicates that, statistically, kids who live within the Langley boundaries are the most likely to end up at TJ. Or, looked at it from the opposite perspective, it tells you that Langley "loses" more kids to TJ than any other school.

It's fairly obvious the data upsets you for some reason. Chill.

But, high school pyramids don't correlate directly to the feeders, especially once AAP gets thrown in. Which is why you end up with screwy situations like Carson, which is a "super center" feeding into 4 high schools. Obviously, all the South Lakes kids aren't going to the South Lakes feeders-- that would be Hughes MS (not Carson) and schools like Sunrise ES, which takes lots of the Oakton AAP kids. Lots of pyramids are like this. So this doesn't give you a good picture of the quality of education that AAP kids are getting leading up to high school. So what the numbers tell you are that most TJ kids are in the Langley/McLean/Marshall area (the highest SES in the county) and the Western part of the County (SL/Chantilly/Westfield). Weirdly, chunks of Oakton also come from Herndon-- and this is all heavily affluent Asian. So this list says something about Fairfax County demographics, but nothing about the quality of the high schools-- unless you think Westfield is outperforming Madison, for example -- which is what wthis list would lead you to beleive.

You're making the interpretation of the data far more complicated than it ought to be.

Well, the feeder system is insanely complicated. And if you are looking at educational quality, you have to look at the feeder ESs and MSs that are best preparing kids for TJ, and not the HSs, that play no role. And the ES/MSs do not directly correlate to the pyramids HSs in a lot of cases.

It is the individual student that drives the acceptance to TJ,not the education of the ES or MS. Parents do tons outside of school. SES counts the most.

[Anonymous]

The numbers provide objective data that is more telling than assertions like "it's just SES," "just look for where Asians live," or "it has nothing to do with ES and MS feeders."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

^this sums it up.

the wealthier areas have smarter kids - not so sure
academically more advanced kids, sure.
wow! what a revelation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Per recently released FCPS data, the 10 base high schools that see the most transfers of students to TJHSST are:

Langley (172)
McLean (161)
Oakton (153)
Chantilly (136)
Westfield (97)
South Lakes (84)
Woodson (79)
Madison (64)
Marshall (58)
Centreville (52)

That list must be several years put together. There are not 58 students from our base school, Marshall. Represents last 10 years? signed TJ mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Per recently released FCPS data, the 10 base high schools that see the most transfers of students to TJHSST are:

Langley (172)
McLean (161)
Oakton (153)
Chantilly (136)
Westfield (97)
South Lakes (84)
Woodson (79)
Madison (64)
Marshall (58)
Centreville (52)

That list must be several years put together. There are not 58 students from our base school, Marshall. Represents last 10 years? signed TJ mom.

No - it means that there are currently 58 TJ students who live within the Marshall base boundaries - about 15 in each class. That's not surprising when you consider the number of students admitted to TJ from Kilmer every year - although it does seem like more of the Kilmer admits live in neighborhoods zoned for Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

^this sums it up.

the wealthier areas have smarter kids - not so sure
academically more advanced kids, sure.
wow! what a revelation.

Why do you think that is?

I mean, sure, kids who are in poverty are not going to do as well as kids who have a stable home and money for tutoring or whatever, but why would there be such a gap b/t financially stable kids at a school like West Springfield or Lake Braddock vs. financially stable kids at Langley/McLean/Oakton?

Is it really about wealth? Is it that the parents of the Langley/McLean kids pour a lot more money into prep classes? Is it that the teachers have higher expectations and therefore bring kids up to a higher level? Is it that the wealthy professional parents at Langley/McLean types of schools really are smarter (thus resulting in their higher-paying jobs) and their kids ARE genetically smarter? Is it that the parents of the second-tier schools just aren't as intense about education?

Once kids are in a financially stable home where they want for nothing -- what then is the difference b/t the schools with the most TJ kids (or SAT scores) and the schools where it isn't as high?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

^this sums it up.

the wealthier areas have smarter kids - not so sure
academically more advanced kids, sure.
wow! what a revelation.

It seems like what the data suggests is that the biggest predictors of getting into TJ are being Asian and living in a wealthy area (ex: Langley, McLean, Oakton) but that it's better to live in a somewhat less affluent area with more Asians (ex: Chantilly) than a more affluent area with fewer Asians (ex: Madison, Marshall). And, if you live in a generally low-income area, you'll be beating the odds to get into TJ, even if the schools in your area have a large number of Asians (ex: Lee, Falls Church).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inescapable fact. "Base" school tells you the geography of the students. The wealthier areas have smarter kids. Now we can debate all day the root causes for that, but you can't deny the correlation.

^this sums it up.

the wealthier areas have smarter kids - not so sure
academically more advanced kids, sure.
wow! what a revelation.

Why do you think that is?

I mean, sure, kids who are in poverty are not going to do as well as kids who have a stable home and money for tutoring or whatever, but why would there be such a gap b/t financially stable kids at a school like West Springfield or Lake Braddock vs. financially stable kids at Langley/McLean/Oakton?

Is it really about wealth? Is it that the parents of the Langley/McLean kids pour a lot more money into prep classes? Is it that the teachers have higher expectations and therefore bring kids up to a higher level? Is it that the wealthy professional parents at Langley/McLean types of schools really are smarter (thus resulting in their higher-paying jobs) and their kids ARE genetically smarter? Is it that the parents of the second-tier schools just aren't as intense about education?

Once kids are in a financially stable home where they want for nothing -- what then is the difference b/t the schools with the most TJ kids (or SAT scores) and the schools where it isn't as high?

For better or worse, wealth CAN be correlated with intelligence. (Don't go off about trust-fund babies, etc. as those are not common situations.) So it's not surprising that those in the upper income bracket are more intelligent.

It is also a fact that there is a genetic component to intelligence. So it's not at all surprising that the higher-income areas have kids who are likely just smarter. No, that's not saying all wealthy kids are smart or all poor people aren't. But let's not play the PC game of all people have the same potential but some are just disadvantaged and don't have good schools, etc.

If you want intelligent kids, the best chance of that is if you are intelligent yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean, sure, kids who are in poverty are not going to do as well as kids who have a stable home and money for tutoring or whatever, but why would there be such a gap b/t financially stable kids at a school like West Springfield or Lake Braddock vs. financially stable kids at Langley/McLean/Oakton?

Is it really about wealth? Is it that the parents of the Langley/McLean kids pour a lot more money into prep classes? Is it that the teachers have higher expectations and therefore bring kids up to a higher level? Is it that the wealthy professional parents at Langley/McLean types of schools really are smarter (thus resulting in their higher-paying jobs) and their kids ARE genetically smarter? Is it that the parents of the second-tier schools just aren't as intense about education?

Once kids are in a financially stable home where they want for nothing -- what then is the difference b/t the schools with the most TJ kids (or SAT scores) and the schools where it isn't as high?

I always laugh at the idea the difference boils down to having money for test prep or tutoring. Like if your kid doesn't do well, it's only because you didn't pay for those things.

SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST SMARTER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, sure, kids who are in poverty are not going to do as well as kids who have a stable home and money for tutoring or whatever, but why would there be such a gap b/t financially stable kids at a school like West Springfield or Lake Braddock vs. financially stable kids at Langley/McLean/Oakton?

Is it really about wealth? Is it that the parents of the Langley/McLean kids pour a lot more money into prep classes? Is it that the teachers have higher expectations and therefore bring kids up to a higher level? Is it that the wealthy professional parents at Langley/McLean types of schools really are smarter (thus resulting in their higher-paying jobs) and their kids ARE genetically smarter? Is it that the parents of the second-tier schools just aren't as intense about education?

Once kids are in a financially stable home where they want for nothing -- what then is the difference b/t the schools with the most TJ kids (or SAT scores) and the schools where it isn't as high?

I always laugh at the idea the difference boils down to having money for test prep or tutoring. Like if your kid doesn't do well, it's only because you didn't pay for those things.

SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST SMARTER.

being “smarter” doesn’t get you into TJ. It helps, yes but it is not enough.
Want the best predictor?
ethnicity/AAP center.
The AAP centres with the most Asians get the most kids into TJ.
And don’t minimise parental ambition on this score. There are prep classes I know of in western part of the county where 5th graders are being prepped for the TJ exam. Most of the attendees are Indian and Korean.
In fact, smart white kids are increasingly saying fuck it; whites application to TJ have dropped noticeably in recent years.

[Anonymous]

Is it really about being born smarter or is it that the teaching is superior?

Can you really conclude that the financially stable kids who attend Oakton are genetically smarter than the financially stable kids who attend Fairfax or West Springfield (just as an example)?