Is this really happening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, no advice but my husband is like that too. He grew up with overbearing parents in a small house with no privacy. I admit I was a bit overbearing with him early on, which was spurred on by the difficulty in getting information from him. I really hate it and it hasn't changed much over the years even though I have completely backed off.

My dh's lies are about 80% lies by omission. There's never been a lie that has affected our lives - nothing affecting our "joint" finances, or as far as I know, cheating. I think his lies are a way of avoiding judgment and maintaining privacy.

A lot of times I don't even realize there was a lie until later when I put two and two together. To call him out on it (without him getting angry and defensive) I have to be my most non-confrontational self and act all nonchalant as I suss out the information, then I restate it, so that he knows that I know he lied. Then I get exactly the same bs as you do.

Even though it's all been trivial so far, I definitely keep my eyes open.

Bingo.

I am the PP upthread who mentioned a former work colleague. Yes, this above is what I am talking about. I see this as a form of passivr aggressiveness and it's annoying but fairly common I suspect.

PPs recommending divorce are way off base unless there is more going on here. If he "ruins you financially" that's a different story but OP did not say that.

I don't see why the divorce recommendation is offbase. Maybe OP doesn't want to be married to someone like this, I sure wouldn't, so why should she be?

Exactly.

To be clear, I find this annoying and I said so. But I say divorce advice is off base because passive aggressiveness is a minor and common character flaw IMO, not a major one like true dishonestly or maliciousness. It's a small flaw that can possibly be addressed with therapy, both single and couples. I wouldn't write a marriage off because of it, not until having made a sincere effort to work through it.

[Anonymous]

Anyone who has ever met a person like this would not be so hard on OP. This is almost guaranteed to end in divorce. His lying will eventually lead to his own self destruction and he will blame everyone around him starting with OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, no advice but my husband is like that too. He grew up with overbearing parents in a small house with no privacy. I admit I was a bit overbearing with him early on, which was spurred on by the difficulty in getting information from him. I really hate it and it hasn't changed much over the years even though I have completely backed off.

My dh's lies are about 80% lies by omission. There's never been a lie that has affected our lives - nothing affecting our "joint" finances, or as far as I know, cheating. I think his lies are a way of avoiding judgment and maintaining privacy.

A lot of times I don't even realize there was a lie until later when I put two and two together. To call him out on it (without him getting angry and defensive) I have to be my most non-confrontational self and act all nonchalant as I suss out the information, then I restate it, so that he knows that I know he lied. Then I get exactly the same bs as you do.

Even though it's all been trivial so far, I definitely keep my eyes open.

Bingo.

I am the PP upthread who mentioned a former work colleague. Yes, this above is what I am talking about. I see this as a form of passivr aggressiveness and it's annoying but fairly common I suspect.

PPs recommending divorce are way off base unless there is more going on here. If he "ruins you financially" that's a different story but OP did not say that.

I don't see why the divorce recommendation is offbase. Maybe OP doesn't want to be married to someone like this, I sure wouldn't, so why should she be?

Exactly.

To be clear, I find this annoying and I said so. But I say divorce advice is off base because passive aggressiveness is a minor and common character flaw IMO, not a major one like true dishonestly or maliciousness. It's a small flaw that can possibly be addressed with therapy, both single and couples. I wouldn't write a marriage off because of it, not until having made a sincere effort to work through it.

Um, no. I grew up with a passive aggressive husband and years of therapy, losing his wife and jobs because of it- none of this has broken him of it. Today he doesn't have a relationship with me, not a meaningful one with any of my siblings.

Passive aggression is a major issue, often much worse than simple dishonesty. Because at its heart it displays contempt and resentment for the person you are in a relationship with. I would never live like that again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, no advice but my husband is like that too. He grew up with overbearing parents in a small house with no privacy. I admit I was a bit overbearing with him early on, which was spurred on by the difficulty in getting information from him. I really hate it and it hasn't changed much over the years even though I have completely backed off.

My dh's lies are about 80% lies by omission. There's never been a lie that has affected our lives - nothing affecting our "joint" finances, or as far as I know, cheating. I think his lies are a way of avoiding judgment and maintaining privacy.

A lot of times I don't even realize there was a lie until later when I put two and two together. To call him out on it (without him getting angry and defensive) I have to be my most non-confrontational self and act all nonchalant as I suss out the information, then I restate it, so that he knows that I know he lied. Then I get exactly the same bs as you do.

Even though it's all been trivial so far, I definitely keep my eyes open.

Bingo.

I am the PP upthread who mentioned a former work colleague. Yes, this above is what I am talking about. I see this as a form of passivr aggressiveness and it's annoying but fairly common I suspect.

PPs recommending divorce are way off base unless there is more going on here. If he "ruins you financially" that's a different story but OP did not say that.

I don't see why the divorce recommendation is offbase. Maybe OP doesn't want to be married to someone like this, I sure wouldn't, so why should she be?

Exactly.

To be clear, I find this annoying and I said so. But I say divorce advice is off base because passive aggressiveness is a minor and common character flaw IMO, not a major one like true dishonestly or maliciousness. It's a small flaw that can possibly be addressed with therapy, both single and couples. I wouldn't write a marriage off because of it, not until having made a sincere effort to work through it.

You'd be a doormat to consider this problem to be a minor character flaw. Picking your teeth at the table is a minor character flaw. Lying about things for no reason at all is a huge personality flaw. I can guarantee that a person like him would not agree to counseling and if he went, he would try to turn every point against the counselor and OP. Then he would go home and lie about what he said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP, no advice but my husband is like that too. He grew up with overbearing parents in a small house with no privacy. I admit I was a bit overbearing with him early on, which was spurred on by the difficulty in getting information from him. I really hate it and it hasn't changed much over the years even though I have completely backed off.

My dh's lies are about 80% lies by omission. There's never been a lie that has affected our lives - nothing affecting our "joint" finances, or as far as I know, cheating. I think his lies are a way of avoiding judgment and maintaining privacy.

A lot of times I don't even realize there was a lie until later when I put two and two together. To call him out on it (without him getting angry and defensive) I have to be my most non-confrontational self and act all nonchalant as I suss out the information, then I restate it, so that he knows that I know he lied. Then I get exactly the same bs as you do.

Even though it's all been trivial so far, I definitely keep my eyes open.

Bingo.

I am the PP upthread who mentioned a former work colleague. Yes, this above is what I am talking about. I see this as a form of passivr aggressiveness and it's annoying but fairly common I suspect.

PPs recommending divorce are way off base unless there is more going on here. If he "ruins you financially" that's a different story but OP did not say that.

I don't see why the divorce recommendation is offbase. Maybe OP doesn't want to be married to someone like this, I sure wouldn't, so why should she be?

Exactly.

To be clear, I find this annoying and I said so. But I say divorce advice is off base because passive aggressiveness is a minor and common character flaw IMO, not a major one like true dishonestly or maliciousness. It's a small flaw that can possibly be addressed with therapy, both single and couples. I wouldn't write a marriage off because of it, not until having made a sincere effort to work through it.

Um, no. I grew up with a passive aggressive husband and years of therapy, losing his wife and jobs because of it- none of this has broken him of it. Today he doesn't have a relationship with me, not a meaningful one with any of my siblings.

Passive aggression is a major issue, often much worse than simple dishonesty. Because at its heart it displays contempt and resentment for the person you are in a relationship with. I would never live like that again.

Ugh *passive aggressive father.

That was a Freudian slip if I've ever heard one yuck.

[Anonymous]

Is one of his parents an alcoholic or drug user?

My ex has an alcoholic Mother and the lies are a pathological way of hiding shame, deflecting reality, and avoiding punishment. He was likely cheating, definitely unstable, and violent. So I left and will never be with a pathological liar again.

[Anonymous]

His father is an alcoholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

You obviously care about it because you've even checked the receipts. He is hiding it from you because he doesn't want to deal with the judgmental bull crap he will get from you. Wives always say "I don't nag" and "it doesn't bother me" when the truth is you are obsessing over every bit of it.

I care about the LYING, not what the hell he's eating. Huge difference. Just as the OP asks, "is this really happening?" the lies make you question your own reality. I'm sitting on the couch, thinking I can see clear as a bell someone eating a turkey sandwich, but he's telling me it's tuna, and you wind up thinking you're losing your mind. Over something so dumb. There is no judgmental bull crap. Why in the hell would anyone care if their spouse is eating turkey versus tuna?!! You may want to check your own attitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

He feels judged

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

He feels judged

Well, that's in his own head. I've never once chimed in about his diet in that way. He's lying, but it's my fault because I've judged him? This was just one example, by the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

He feels judged

Wow that's baseless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:His father is an alcoholic.

The constant, CONSTANT lying is often seen in alcoholics. So maybe this was modeled behavior for him as being normal, as a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

He feels judged

Well, that's in his own head. I've never once chimed in about his diet in that way. He's lying, but it's my fault because I've judged him? This was just one example, by the way.

No one said it was your fault. The issue seems to be that he is feeling shame about something and dealing with it in a childish way. Shame is a very powerful emotion that people will do all kinds of neurotic things to avoid. This issue most likely long predates your relationship, and goes back to childhood.

If I were you, I would just sit him down and calmly explain what you have observed about his behavior and then offer your hypothesis as to the cause of his behavior. Then give him to explain himself. Don't be "threatening" about it, but also don't allow him to be evasive or sneak his way out of it with some more BS. Try to make it "safe" for him to be able be honest about what is probably going to humiliating for him to fess-up to, and then just get to a point where he can admit to the fact that he being inappropriate and that he needs to work on it. There is a famous book called "Crucial Conversations" that offers perfect strategies for dealing with this kind of situation.

Please ignore the "get a divorce" crowd. It's so easy to howl "get a divorce" when it's no skin off of your back. There is so much terrible advice doled out on DCUM everyday. I hope it's just vocal minority, for humanity's sake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His father is an alcoholic.

The constant, CONSTANT lying is often seen in alcoholics. So maybe this was modeled behavior for him as being normal, as a child.

This is correct. Addicts lie, partly because they are ashamed of their addiction, and its related lifestyle. Someone who was raised by an addict, or has a lot of addiction in his family, probably inherited a lot of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I understand. My DH lies about the dumbest things, and I just can't figure out what the hell he's thinking. It's over stuff I would never in a million years pick a fight over, but now, as they all add up, it makes me wonder why he feels the need to lie and they are taking on a life of their own. Big example that's happening now: I am a vegetarian. I couldn't care less if he eats meat or not, never pressured him, he just said years ago that he wanted to stop eating it because he didn't feel good. Last weekend, we're out of town at a hotel that included breakfast, and I literally watched as he hid a sausage patty under his eggs. And last night, he brought sandwiches home and told me it was tuna when it was turkey, plain as day and on the receipt. So why in the world does he think I give a crap?? I was taken off guard a few times where he's clearly hiding it, and now I'm prepared to ask him why he feels the need to lie about what he's eating. It's beyond strange to me. But also hurtful - he's choosing to lie to me over something so dumb, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's over something dumb or not - he's choosing to lie to me.

He feels judged

Well, that's in his own head. I've never once chimed in about his diet in that way. He's lying, but it's my fault because I've judged him? This was just one example, by the way.

No one said it was your fault. The issue seems to be that he is feeling shame about something and dealing with it in a childish way. Shame is a very powerful emotion that people will do all kinds of neurotic things to avoid. This issue most likely long predates your relationship, and goes back to childhood.

If I were you, I would just sit him down and calmly explain what you have observed about his behavior and then offer your hypothesis as to the cause of his behavior. Then give him to explain himself. Don't be "threatening" about it, but also don't allow him to be evasive or sneak his way out of it with some more BS. Try to make it "safe" for him to be able be honest about what is probably going to humiliating for him to fess-up to, and then just get to a point where he can admit to the fact that he being inappropriate and that he needs to work on it. There is a famous book called "Crucial Conversations" that offers perfect strategies for dealing with this kind of situation.

Please ignore the "get a divorce" crowd. It's so easy to howl "get a divorce" when it's no skin off of your back. There is so much terrible advice doled out on DCUM everyday. I hope it's just vocal minority, for humanity's sake.

You seem to have a very hopeful, bordering on delusional, opinion of exactly the effect you can have on a lifetime of learned behavior. And a bit of a savior complex. And a rather kind of condescending attitude to people who are going through something that you CLEARLY have never, ever been through.

Please don't weigh in on what you don't know and haven't lived. And keep the "I know best" attitude to yourself. Thanks.