Guys... What makes you put s ring on it?

[Anonymous]

It could also be due to age.

Some guys mature and decide they want to get married and settle down.

It just may be about timing and not the actual girl.

[Anonymous]

It's not a matter of being a certain type of girl that a guy marries or not. It's a matter of whether or not you are the woman that he wants to marry. There were many men that I dated that did not want to marry me. DH in the beginning wasnt sure how he felt about me and took some time (8 months) to fall in love. But 2 months later we were talking marriage and 2 months after that it was decided yes, we wanted to marry each other. So we dated for just less than 2 years before we got married.

How did I "get him to marry me"? (I hate that phrase). 1) I told him that at 38, I would not spend forever dating and marriage was important 2) I did not live with him and would not unless engaged and planning a wedding 3) we were right for each other and 4) most importantly, he knew that I would walk.
I loved him with all my heart. I knew he was the best guy I ever dated. I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. I loved him, but I loved me more. I knew that I didn't want to be in limbo forever. So I was willing to walk.

Even after we had agree that engagement was going to happen. We had a date set for when I needed to be out of my apartment and we would be moving in together. He was dragging his feet. (He was divorced and marriage is scary). So while looking for a 2 bd for us, I kept looking for 1 bd for me. After weeks of no engagement, but still apartment hunting together. I told him, "If you aren't ready to get engaged and married that is fine. But you have to tell me soon (like Now), so I can find my own place (and showed him the list of places I would go see)."

If I was not the right woman, he would have not proposed. But I think, if I had let him, he would have dated me for a few more years before making a decision.

And I didn't want to be like his first wife who is like so many women I know. They moved in together too soon. Then they got comfortable. Nothing really wrong with the relationship, but just werent right for each other. Then they were mid-30's and they'd been together for years. And she wanted to get married and he couldn't think of a reason why he shouldn't, so they did. In less than a year they were separated and soon divorced.

So the moral of the story is 1) be willing to walk away and 2) don't live together until engaged or married.

[Anonymous]

Its a cat and mouse game. Guys want what they can't have but what is within their reach. If they think you are out of their league, they won't try. If they think you are too easy, they get bored and move on to someone that challenges them.

[Anonymous]

OP, please read this book: Why Men Marry Some Women and Not Others by John Molloy

The premise of the book is that there are high commitment periods for men and factors that make a man feel ready for the next step. However, one of the biggest factors is the woman insisting upon marriage (while stopping short of an ultimatum). Some of the PPs are prime examples of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Some guys mature and decide they want to get married and settle down.

How does one have anything to do with the other?

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the obvious -- if he hasn't proposed and you want to get married, he just isn't the right guy for you. That's it. Don't waste your time asking why and feeling bad about yourself. You need to move on and move out if he isn't giving you what you want. Its not fair to yourself to waste your time like this.

[Anonymous]

I share the views of several PPs who said that being able to walk away is important. Adding my grain of salt.. Given the number of proposals I've received, I would say I have always been marriage material (even though I am a perfectly average/normal woman), and the times when I wasn't, I knew why. As a very happily married person (because the points below also work to STAY married), I'll try to sum up (I am French, English is my second language so forgive the mistakes please):

- Healthy self esteem. Not too high not too low. First mistakes: being delusional and too demanding (ie wanting to date a perfect guy when you are not a catch yourself) or being too easy to get (whatever your worth, men want to feel that they won the lottery, or at least got a good deal ).
- Being someone who projects EMOTIONAL self sufficiency. You don't need him to marry you to feel complete/fulfilled. Clinginess and dependency are a major turn off. Have a life, your friends, your work, your money...A lot of men are afraid to marry a potential "liability/weight" that they will have to carry around. Because men have a "provider" role, the rational decision is to marry someone who won't need them in a way that seems overwhelming to them. Not all men are scared by the same thing (health, money, family, children .. can have completely diff impacts depending on the guy), but I would say that someone who seems emotionally dependent, whose happiness depends on them too much, is generally scary.
- BUT you want to leave space to show you need him. That one is complicated because even though men have to feel needed, women IMHO often interpret it the wrong way. They want you to need them to open the jarr, help you discover good music, repair the car, play the guitar (whatever their strenght is), and they want you to show your appreciation, but they don't want you to need/require their emotional support. American women (apologies for the generalization..) sometimes want to project strength in a way that doesn't leave space for a man to demonstrate their competencies (i.e compete with their man on everything) and after emasculating them, they want their man to provide strong emotional support. I don't think it works (even if as a feminist I can totally see why it seems perfectly fair, but forget it, it just doesnt work).
- Be confident in the fact that you can find someone else if you want to, and convey that feeling. Not with words (counterproductive), with your attitude. If you show fear of being alone, or too old to go back on the dating market, you are basically telling him "take pity on me, marry me because if not noone else will". As I said before, men want to win the lottery, they need to be afraid to lose you, they don't want to marry you out of pity. Now the difficulty is what is the best attitude to adopt .. As a a French person I may be a tiny bit more flirty then the typical american audience , but not much, and I am not a cheater at all, I like my (american) husband to see that other men find me funny, attractive,and interesting to talk to. That's all. And it works extremely well (the post party sex is extremely telling...).
- Convey the feeling that you are able to happily walk away. A consequence from the points above. You are strong, you don't need him, you want him, that's a huge difference. You are not blackmailing him into marrying you, you express clearly what you want and what makes you happy " I want to build a strong relationship with a partner who will marry me and commit to me, and if that's not you, it is fine, let me go so I can find someone who will be that kind of partner". No anger, no begging (certainly no begging), no pity party. And if he let's you walk, then no regrets, he is not the right one for you, it is good that you stop losing time, life is short!


OP: given what you say, you seem to fall in the laid back easy maintenance category so in your case the "problem" may be that he is not scared of losing you.. Either because he is completely out of your league (but i doubt that), or because you don't keep him enough on his toes and don't project the proper kind of independance. If you let him think he is the best you can get and you are afraid of losing him, then he has no rational reason to "secure the deal" and he can actually value your relationship less because he starts to see it through your own eyes. Confidence is sexy.

I am going to make a poor analogy: think about house hunt, in a seller market with low inventory everyone rushes to close in 3 days as long as the price is right. If the buyers think they have time to think, they'll keep on looking for a better house at a better deal, even if they end up closing for the same price on the same type of house a couple of years later. No pressure to close, they know they'll find the same deal whenever they want

[Anonymous]

OP, why are you sitting around waiting for someone to ask you? When I was dating DH, I brought up marriage a few times with him, and we both agreed we would get married pretty soon. When he "asked" me, we had already decided to get married. It was a ritual and not a decision at that point.

You are legally permitted to bring up marriage if you want it from a partner. And you're even allowed to walk away and find someone else if your current partner doesn't want to marry you!

In all seriousness, though, I think some women are confident and tell their partner they are expecting to get married. No ultimatums or silly games like that, but if marriage doesn't seem like it's going to happen, friendly parting of ways. That's it, there's no secret.

[Anonymous]

To PP at 13:42 from France: Excellent post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To PP at 13:42 from France: Excellent post!

Ugh, no, it was a really gross post. "American women emasculate their husbands"

Look, sweetheart, your husband apparently couldn't land an American lady and so he's filled your head with lies about how terrible American women are to bolster his injured ego.

If you feel you need to pretend to be incompetent to coddle and manipulate your husband, well...you do you. But pretending to be incompetent so you don't hurt a man's feelings is the opposite of feminism, so be honest that you aren't a feminist. If a man can't stand to marry a competent lady, the fault is with him, not with the competent lady.

- Signed, American woman who's been happily married for 10 years to a handsome, competent man who enjoys being with a smart, capable woman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP at 13:42 from France: Excellent post!

Ugh, no, it was a really gross post. "American women emasculate their husbands"

Look, sweetheart, your husband apparently couldn't land an American lady and so he's filled your head with lies about how terrible American women are to bolster his injured ego.

If you feel you need to pretend to be incompetent to coddle and manipulate your husband, well...you do you. But pretending to be incompetent so you don't hurt a man's feelings is the opposite of feminism, so be honest that you aren't a feminist. If a man can't stand to marry a competent lady, the fault is with him, not with the competent lady.

- Signed, American woman who's been happily married for 10 years to a handsome, competent man who enjoys being with a smart, capable woman

American here. I thought her post was spot on. You seem angry and need to see someone.

[Anonymous]

I also loved the French woman's post. I don't think it's manipulation as much as it is humility: being willing to let your boyfriend help you in areas where you might not be as calable rather than feeling the need to compete or one-up him on everything. I think that's a form of manipulation and deceit b/c we are NOT great at everything.

[Anonymous]

^^capable (like my typing skills, lol)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP at 13:42 from France: Excellent post!

Ugh, no, it was a really gross post. "American women emasculate their husbands"

Look, sweetheart, your husband apparently couldn't land an American lady and so he's filled your head with lies about how terrible American women are to bolster his injured ego.

If you feel you need to pretend to be incompetent to coddle and manipulate your husband, well...you do you. But pretending to be incompetent so you don't hurt a man's feelings is the opposite of feminism, so be honest that you aren't a feminist. If a man can't stand to marry a competent lady, the fault is with him, not with the competent lady.

- Signed, American woman who's been happily married for 10 years to a handsome, competent man who enjoys being with a smart, capable woman

Thanks 19:29 happy to see my rambling was readable ..

To Other PP: you are right, apologies to American women, my generalization wasn't necessary and French women actually also do the same thing. BUT you over simplify what I said and I stick to my guns: we need to leave space for men to demonstrate their competencies and we need to show appreciation for what they do. It doesn't mean I am going to lie about my own competencies, it means that I am going to recognize and appreciate what he does well without seeing it as a threat to my strong feminist identity. Case in point : he loves to be the strong man able to help me carry heavy stuff. I guess it flatters his inner caveman ego. And guess what, I am very happy to flatter his caveman ego and recognize that as a 100 pound 5"5 woman I am no match to his physical strength. It makes him feel good about himself, protective and caring. There are some grey areas for sure: he wants to be the one able to light a fire in 5 min. I feel totally able to do the same but I will leave that to him and praise him for doing it well. It is important to him, so I will Bite my tong and give zero advice as long as he is not burning the house down..

On some other matters I won't leave him the space to be "the male" : intellectually we are equals, we share household chores and kids rearing, I actually earn more than him and he spends more time taking care of the kids. We both describe ourselves as feminists and he def picked me because he thought I was smart and spoke my mind/stood up for myself. BUT he also noted that it was relaxing not to have to compete with me on everything and to be able to do silly stuff such as opening the door for me without me jumping at his throat. Because he is actually such a feminist, he dated all his life very strong women (women that I know and respect by the way, he is able to get "competent American women" and wasn't that desperate he had to settle for a foreigner ), and even though he would never date anybody who doesn't think of herself as a feminist, he realizes that it doesn't make him happy when he cannot play at least part of "the male" role. He knows it is not important, but there is something deep down that no amount of convincing and politics will change. He needs to be in a place where he is valued as a man, not just as a human being. Hoping I am making sense...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also loved the French woman's post. I don't think it's manipulation as much as it is humility: being willing to let your boyfriend help you in areas where you might not be as calable rather than feeling the need to compete or one-up him on everything. I think that's a form of manipulation and deceit b/c we are NOT great at everything.

Thanks