What to do about chronic lying, esp. about homework? Says he just can't help it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, is it possible your son has an LD or ADHD? Maybe consider having him tested?

OP here. Yes, he has ADD and is on medication for it. It seems like it wears off before homework time, but otherwise he would not be able to sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The school should have a list of Service Hours opportunities. Mine volunteer at the community center (setting up rooms, cleaning, helping with any programs going on that day) and last semester my oldest helped the art teacher for an hour each day. He said he mostly cleaned paint brushes, jars, helped organize supplies. I think you can also volunteer at the school library re-stocking shelves. If you stay after school than you take the activity bus home, an hour later than dismissal.

The school has nothing formal for Service Hours but I love the idea of helping one of the teachers. I will look into that. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, the assignment book has check-boxes for each assignment.

Re internalizing his responsibility: I'm glad to hear my personal viewpoint reiterated but the problem is my husband can't tolerate leaving him to possibly fail. It's possible DS would find his inner student if we just left him to his own devices, however when we have done that experimentally in the past, DS got a string of C's and D's. (Despite doing very well on tests.)

In addition, DH feels that when teachers report undone homework or projects, or give failing grades it is a parental failing not to intervene with the kid in some way (lecturing, consequences, etc.) DH travels a lot so he finds fault with me if I don't keep on DS's case.

Another complication is that if there is an assignment to be done on the computer, DS will appear to be working but instead will be web-surfing. Blocking unrelated websites is difficult and DS will still surf what he is left with, and continue to waste time.

Books for you and your DH:

The Blessing of a B Minus, by Wendy Mogel

Mindset, by Carol Dweck

You really need to let your son assume full responsibility and if that entails some bad grades, that is how it is. He needs to be holding the steering wheel here.

I also recommend the PEP class, Thriving with Teens.

How Children Succeed, by Paul Tough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you check Edline (MCPS Middle School, online grading) every Friday? Any zeros mean loss of computer access for the weekend?

This opens up another can of worms...I know this sounds crazy but I don't know what he'd do with himself if he didn't have weekend screentime. He has one hobby: Robotics; which requires the computer. And if friends come over they do gaming up to his 3-hour limit and then they go home and he sits around and mopes or reads the small range of books he's interested in. He will (reluctantly) go on outings (such as hikes or bike rides) with us but not by himself.

Does he participate in extracurricular activities at school?

Our teens are required to participate in at least one per quarter.

[Anonymous]

OP here, yes, Chess, and Art Club. There's no requirement (I wish they required a sport as my daughter's school did.)

[Anonymous]

I totally get it OP. Ds truly cannot lie ( kinda funny) but he will say "I can't remember" or "I don't think so" or "I tried." Really the same thing in not getting hw done.

Also loves screen time. For us, we know how much he loves music so we offered up guitar lessons. It is something to do when he is do e with screens. He can also facetime a few friends to talk or play guitar together.

You can also tell his teachers you are trying a new hands- off approach and let them be the bad guy. Do it for a quarter. I know it is hard but it will be worth it. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Because whatever is going on is just overwhelming our middle school boys.

OP, we are exactly where you are. After a helacious quarter following a fairly strict path with punishments and yelling, we realized it wasn't working and we were all miserable.

We've switched to a new path, with going over his work every evening before dinner, but with no yelling (him or us), and hence no escalation into punishments. He still hates it, but we're all managing better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At some point he needs to internalize both his responsibility for homework, and the grades he earns. The more involved you are, the less concerned he needs to be about it (because you are doing it for him).

I would back off and let him be 100% responsible for doing his homework (or not), and for the fallout from not doing homework.

That was a dismal failure with us. Our kid just isn't up to the organizational requirements of his teachers (who all have their own system - I am barely up for the challenge). If I leave it all to him, he will end up miserable in school when his work isn't done (since he won't have done the reading and won't know what's going on and that doesn't work for him). This will be followed by withdrawal and disengagement. With my kid's personality, we will create an underachiever with enough ability to pull it off, but we'll have a disengaged and unhappy underachiever. Yes, he needs to internalize it, but he has to internalize it in bite-sized pieces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you check Edline (MCPS Middle School, online grading) every Friday? Any zeros mean loss of computer access for the weekend?

That would only work if the teachers were really accurate in real time. Sometimes things are missing if they've started posting about the assignment but haven't yet entered the grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, yes, Chess, and Art Club. There's no requirement (I wish they required a sport as my daughter's school did.)

What I mean is that we our sons' parents require participation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point he needs to internalize both his responsibility for homework, and the grades he earns. The more involved you are, the less concerned he needs to be about it (because you are doing it for him).

I would back off and let him be 100% responsible for doing his homework (or not), and for the fallout from not doing homework.

That was a dismal failure with us. Our kid just isn't up to the organizational requirements of his teachers (who all have their own system - I am barely up for the challenge). If I leave it all to him, he will end up miserable in school when his work isn't done (since he won't have done the reading and won't know what's going on and that doesn't work for him). This will be followed by withdrawal and disengagement. With my kid's personality, we will create an underachiever with enough ability to pull it off, but we'll have a disengaged and unhappy underachiever. Yes, he needs to internalize it, but he has to internalize it in bite-sized pieces.

How old is your son?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At some point he needs to internalize both his responsibility for homework, and the grades he earns. The more involved you are, the less concerned he needs to be about it (because you are doing it for him).

I would back off and let him be 100% responsible for doing his homework (or not), and for the fallout from not doing homework.

That was a dismal failure with us. Our kid just isn't up to the organizational requirements of his teachers (who all have their own system - I am barely up for the challenge). If I leave it all to him, he will end up miserable in school when his work isn't done (since he won't have done the reading and won't know what's going on and that doesn't work for him). This will be followed by withdrawal and disengagement. With my kid's personality, we will create an underachiever with enough ability to pull it off, but we'll have a disengaged and unhappy underachiever. Yes, he needs to internalize it, but he has to internalize it in bite-sized pieces.

How old is your son?

Same age as OP's kid. Teacher's agree with me about the "smaller steps" part.

This problem the OP is having is so, so, common. Pretty much all the moms of boys (I mostly know moms of boys) struggle with this. ADHD exacerbates, perhaps, but it also means the parents are more skilled by this point.

[Anonymous]

ADHD also comes with impulsive behavior -- that's one of the characteristics. ADHD kids typically have more issues with lying and may do it further on into teen years. (DD is liek this.)

THis is an ongoing struggle but we've tried to address it through addressing the underlying issue (keeping track of assignments, working with teachers, using Edline in MCPS, and helping DD be as independent and responsible as possible) and having clear, discussed-in-advance consequences for lying. It's ok to say you don't know but it's not ok to lie, so better to pull out the agenda and take a look.

[Anonymous]

Also consider a booster pill for homework. If you time it right, it won't affect sleep.

DD takes her Vyvanse very early int eh morning because of a long bus ride (before 7 a.m.) and needs a short term booster when she gets home if she has a lot of work to do. As long as I give it to her by 4 or 4:30, she's ok to sleep. She also occasionally takes melatonin, a very low dose, to get back on track for sleep.

[Anonymous]

Very easy for others to say "let him fail" and "let him suffer natural consequences." But you did that already and it did not work, right? If those Cs and Ds earlier did not affect him enough to turn him around -- well, those were his "natural consequences" for not doing homework before, and it didn't have enough impact to change his ways. Did you visit any serious consequences on him for those grades at that time?

Go the other direction and crack down on monitoring him, and the kind folks of DCUM will scream that you're being a helicopter parent. But frankly, that's the route I'd try now for two reasons: One, he is 14, not in elementary school; very soon, his grades will truly affect whether he goes to college. Two, there may be something else going on here that is not just about laziness and lies and if that's the case, you need to find out what it is now.

As someone else noted: Can't you see his daily assignments on FCPS Blackboard, or Edline, or whatever online assignment tracking system your school uses? And you mention that there is a daily checklist for his homework -- is this in a planner notebook that the school assigns to students? (Many schools now do this so I figure that's what you mean--?). It sounds like you need to check both the online system and the planner notebook daily with him standing right there. And then, rather than asking him to let you see his homework as you say you have done -- you tell him you will see it, and if you are tracking it with the system and the planner, you should know if he's done it all.

If he has extracurriculars, I'd consider simply suspending those until he proves he can do his assignments regularly and completely and be trusted to do them -- no sport or whatever until the homework is an established routine that gets completed. I'd tell him that this is not a punishment -- yet -- but a reboot: Everything is stopping for now until the homework situation is working and then it restarts and continues as long as the homework continues to happen as it should.

I think I'd do all this after a serious consultation with his teachers. If he has one homeroom teacher you could deal with that one, but if he's in middle school and has a team of teachers, you might need to ask for a meeting with that team plus the counselor (some schools have counselors who specialize in helping kids learn to be better organized --ours does -- and that is the person you need). Is your son doing OK in classes? Does he participate or is he hiding in the back? Is he still doing well on tests and quizzes? Are there other behavioral issues you might be unaware of? What do the teachers observe about him -- does he seem to have any motivation or is he going through the motions? Why does he say "I can't help it" -- is it possible that he feels he's not smart enough, or doesn't get things right so he gives up, etc.? There could be issues of inadequacy or even depression. Or...it could be plain old "I hate homework." But I'd show him I was very serious by involving the teaching team and counselor and getting involved with daily checks of homework -- with your eyeballs on the work, not just letting him say "I did it." Ask the teachers for ideas.

As for doing other stuff online: Put the computer in the kitchen or living room and sit there doing your own thing while he is on it, period. No computer in his room, period. Don't negotiate or let him complain about it. The computer moves and that's that.

As for your husband, it sounds like you might have to tell him bluntly to back off while you delve into what's going on and while you make your own procedure for helping your son turn this around. If dad is interfering when home and tries to do things differently from you -- frankly dad needs to let you handle it.