help remind me about being patient and understanding with husbands depression

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the illness talking, not the person. But that is hard to separate out and not take personally when the illness and person are so intertwined.

When I hear something that is angry, irrational and out of character, I just tell myself it is the depression talking and ignore it, same as if he said something under the influence of heavy pain meds/anesthesia

13:16 here. I do that too, but I also keep him accountable. It is a very slippery slope with stuff like the verbally abusive things that many depressed people are prone to say. H knows that it's not okay to say cruel things to me, that it's not okay to blame me for things, that flying off the handle in front of the kids is not okay. While I agree that there are "under the influence" elements, he is still a person who is at least partially in control. If he feels himself becoming angry or aggressive, I would much prefer if he walked away, took a break, etc. to avoid saying cruel things. I refuse to accept and excuse verbal abuse simply because he is depressed. He knows exactly what he's saying and chooses to say very specific things that he knows will be the MOST hurtful.

I am the PP you are responding to and I agree. It doesn't mean he can be abusive or aggressive without responsibility - but more that I don't personalize it or hold it against him personally. I agree though that he has to figure out how to manage it and if it is taking over or he is starting to feel out of control then that is a sign that he needs to re-tweak his treatment plan.

I completely agree and have said as much plenty of times. We have differences of opinion about his treatment plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is the illness talking, not the person. But that is hard to separate out and not take personally when the illness and person are so intertwined.

When I hear something that is angry, irrational and out of character, I just tell myself it is the depression talking and ignore it, same as if he said something under the influence of heavy pain meds/anesthesia

So at what point does OP get to say, "You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a man who has depression and does nothing to control it?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the illness talking, not the person. But that is hard to separate out and not take personally when the illness and person are so intertwined.

When I hear something that is angry, irrational and out of character, I just tell myself it is the depression talking and ignore it, same as if he said something under the influence of heavy pain meds/anesthesia

So at what point does OP get to say, "You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a man who has depression and does nothing to control it?"

He is taking meds and seeing a doctor so i wouldn't say he is doing nothing - but it does sound like he is doing the bare minimum.

That is a pretty individual question, and depends on the people involved. There are many other health issue that can impact life. It is like asking..

"You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a woman/man who has obesity and does the bare minimum to control it?"

"You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a woman/man who has diabetes and does the bare minimum to control it?"

"You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a woman/man who has anxiety and does the bare minimum to control it?"

"You know what? I'm fucking sick of the challenge of living with a woman/man who has a chronic illness and does the bare minimum to control it?"

Everyone has a different tolerance level for what they can handle and the point at which their own mental health is impacted to the point they can't take it any more. Depression by definition pretty much takes away the energy and motivation and mindset required to seek help, especially for men who have been socialized to be tough and strong and not talk about how they feel.

[Anonymous]

OP here. THanks everyone for contributing to what I think is probably an important thread regarding the complexity of dealing with mental illness in any form from the perspective of the person married to the diagnosed one.

There has been an important development and though I dont know how much time I will have right now to go into detail (DD is here and DH is out of town), I thought it was a good idea to share now so perhaps we can add it to the overall discussion that has developed regarding limits of tolerance and loving support, and the spectrum inbetween.

In a nutshell, DH said something completely obnoxious to me a few days ago, and it was a tipping point/blink moment for me. Over the next day and a half, I released on him in great detail exactly what I saw and what I had been dealing with for years now. That he has responses to things that are not those of an adult, that he projects his distorted view on situations, that he projects his interpretations on me, that he perception blames, thought blames, and the like. That he has skirted the issue of something very wrong with him for a long time and has used blaming me as a way of avoiding what is obvious. That I knew with utmost certainty that the problem here was not me, that I had come to this conclusion after many years of painstaking self examination of myself and all the facts. That as a 48 year old man he had somehow failed because of this avoidance to mature in certain ways critical to a marriage, and that he had reached the end of the line with me. That if he wants therapy, he needs individual therapy to address these things, that this is not and never ever has been a situation to which we equally contribute. That some of this nuts and bolts are not properly seated, and he knows it, and its never been a level playing field because of it. WHen he would protest at my anger with a "listen to how your talking to me" I replied with a Yes you listen closely to my anger, because you put it here with your anger problem, and your projection and your inability to be held accountable.

THe result? THe next day, he said to me that he had never actually put together until I said it that taking the medication matched the timing of the eliination of his rage episodes with getting in my face with a raised fist. That he could not actually see that he was not doing that anymore out of anything other than his will. That the fact that he could not actually tell there was a connection indicated that he has a chemical imbalance and it probably goes back a long way. That clearly he needs to take this medication and follow the advice of his new doc and take twice the does (actually the standard dose- he was undermedicated).

Well, that was all good and well. But I was skeptical. I mean, this is such a big mea culpa, that if he backtracked on the other mea culpas that were all "situational" why would he not back up on this huge one?

So I told him I needed to know if he is actually serious. Serious about being married. Serious about facing the scope and magnitude of what he had put me through. Serious about facing my anger, because after all the years of absorbing his imbalanced rage that he could not now expect me to not be angry at the drop of a hat. That I will try to work things out with him if he is absolutely serious, but please do not waste my time putting me through all this if he is just going to punk out on me yet again.

His response was that he really felt this imbalance went back as far as fourth grade, when his grades plummeted and his life turned upside down. That was probably the ADD kicking in. That certain members of his family, he is starting to realize, display imbalances as well. That he does not want to lose me, our family, and that he will do whatever it takes to turn this around.

So where I am now is: I believe he has made the critical step, after 20 years of marriage, to fess up to exactly what he has going on. Of course it did get worse in recent years over stress and finances and etc, but from the start things were not right. From BEFORE the start things were not right. I literally began to suspect this only after we got married, when I saw the effects of stress on him as he worked hard to move his career forward. 20 long years later, I can tell you that at least it feels right to have the truth on my side and in the open. I had a long wait for him to come around and see this. I also need to state that he did NOT have these rage epsiodes early in our marriage- well he did, but they were very different. I may have said that before. He would get mad, but it was never personal to ME. And I could talk him down easily.

There is a long path ahead, but I now no longer feel alone. He is now with me on a certain level that he has never been. Its really about things being out in the open finally. I should also state that during all this he has been a kind and loving father. And clearly, he has been depressed in the more classic sense of low energy, loss of hope, etc. Its not all rage. So its complicated, but from where I stand its also easy to see how all these things blend together.

So, I said to him in a lighthearted moment "Youre tired of living the asshole lifestyle, are you?" And he got the humor. To give you an idea.

As he put it "Ive decided that I am experimenting with drugs" by which he means prescribed medication. This was a huge step to begin with, but now he is owning it like he never did before. A big step.

Anyone who has been here- hey, another member of the club.

I will update again as things develop. He has begun taking the proper dose and says he is hopeful. I kind of am too. I am allowing myself skepticism, because I know it all is going to take work and time and luck.

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion and support.

[Anonymous]

OP I am so glad you you were able to have that talk. it sounds like you were able to express your anger in a loving way and that he was receptive. Huge steps forward - both in in him knowing how you feel and in him recognizing and admitting to not being well. It may actually be a relief for him that it is all out in the open and I am so glad you feel you have a voice in this.

Mental illness is very neuro complex and goes far beyond imbalances so while the medication will hopefully help, he may need to try different ones. Also he should still do therapy to learn new patterns of reacting and responding and thinking. There may be many skills he doesn't have (in terms of emotional and behavioral regulation and cognitive processing) because of how the mental illness was impacting his brain and the habits he formed.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to send you positive thoughts, OP. I had two depressive episodes, 5 years apart, each lasting about 3 months. I did take meds (only for a few months) and did therapy (which I no longer need). My spouse tells me that those periods were some of the worst of her life - I apologized about them. I just can't imagine my spouse dealing with that for years. I think your thread will be very valuable for future readers. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much 20:47. My husband also has apologized. Its difficult, though, to apologize for something that went on so long and have it have any affect on the person being apologized to. I guess at the heart of some of my anger is this idea that I have that somehow he HAD to have known he had issues and when he did things that were universally understandable as wrong, he should have been able to see the pattern. He swears, as he put it, that " something in (his) brain made him think it was just the situation in the moment".

I have to say, though, that from what I have been told and have read about depression and ADD, this tracks. Poor self reporting are part of ADD and part of depression. As one friend with depression put it: its hard to see when you are IN it. You see everything through a negative filter. But having been on the receiving end of the worst treatment by anyone in my life by the very person who supposedly loves me the most, its just, well, it just is so disappointing. I have not had the marriage I wanted. I dont feel sorry for myself, but its what has happened, and I need a moment to really acknowledge that, but not so much that I cant move forward with the rest of my life as well the rest of the marriage.

However, I can safely say its MUCH better to have the acknowledgement than the denial. Its a paradigm shift, or, its what is needed for one to occur. My husband does really love me very much. I do know that. We are each others love of a lifetime. Boy, did I not ever know it would include this awful crap. But, so it has been. Its not been ONLY that, obviously. It has been tough to acknowledge the scope and magnitude of the awfulness. But now that this has been done, and I was able to do so comprehensively and communicate as I did to him, and he received this all in one sort of large dose AND he swallowed it and took it in, its, well, the closest to hopeful Ive been in years.

Ive certainly learned about patience and courage. Now I must learn about patience and courage some more.

[Anonymous]

It's ok