ADD/ ADHD girls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you seem to be concerned about what others think or how your DD will be labeled if she is evaluated and diagnosed. Most people, frankly, don't care. When I tell people my DD has ADHD or is on meds, they reply "Oh really?" and never ask any follow up questions. DD is a popular girl, has plenty of friends, involved in competitive sports, works hard in school and is adjusting well. She has areas where she needs support and the teachers provide accomodations as they go along. You are doing your DD a disservice by not having her evaluated. As a PP said, you have many treatement options that inlucde therapy, meds, classroom interventions, social skills goups. The counselor at DDs school has a "Friendship Club". It is really a social skills group. The kids love it and think its cool. They share their thoughts and the counselor just lets them talk but gives them ground rules. It is a mixed bag of students with LDs, ADHD, traditional learners. So, I think you should be proactive in helping your DD and figuring it out.

Where on earth did you get that??


What I am trying to avoid is giving her an excuse to slack off or not put forth real effort. I have heard my nephew try to explain away bad behavior by saying "Well, I haven't had my ritalin today". I won't have that. I want her to learn to cope. That might mean medication down the road. But not now.

In any case, "should I have my child evaluated and medicated" was not my question. It was rather "what does ADHS look like in girls, and how are you managing it". My feelings about medication don't really need to come into it.

Chill out, OP, people are taking their time to help YOU and your daughter. Your response was rude. Makes me not want to respond (and I didn't write that post) but in the interest of anyone else with ADHD girls, I will post after I finish reading the thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would lose my shit if I ever heard her say "I can't do this because my brain works differently" (or whatever people tell kids to explain why they're taking pills every day).

This was why I felt like you were writing about our kids. We are the "people" you refer to. And while many of us do tell our kids that they take pills because their brains work differently, I don't know any parent of a child with ADHD who tells them they can't do something because of their diagnosis. Also, it sounds like you are conflating medication with simply knowing your diagnosis. The "your brain works differently" line is for the diagnosis, not the meds. Parents of kids with ADHD who do not take meds, especially, need to explain the disorder to their children so they know why they have to work harder at certain things.

[Anonymous]

OP,

I understand what you're saying (now) about excuses. No matter the kid, it's the parenting that makes the difference with this. Please don't let this stop you from getting a diagnosis.

We have a friend whose 6 year old son with ADHD is prone to being easily frustrated and hitting. With or without meds, this child still faces consequences for inappropriate behavior.

He is well aware of his ADHD and why it makes certain things harder for him. He's learning appropriate behavioral strategies to avoid "triggers" and learning to reflect on what he could have done differently when he does something inappropriate.

If you're DD is prone to making excuses, it might be her personality or she may not quite understand why she acts in certain ways herself. Kids learn coping mechanisms and not always the best ones when they're are trying to compensate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$3600 for an evaluation? What do poor parents do?

We don't get evaluations. That's me. And we're not "poor" just typical working-middle-class DC area people.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

Thank you, everyone. Despite some misunderstanding and some plain old disagreements, this has been a very helpful discussion.

One of the things I need to work on, with my daughter, with DCUM, and with life all over, is patience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems like all the posts on the topic concern boys.

I don't know what to think about my six year old daughter's behavior. She's impulsive and physically (over?)active. She interrupts, she doesn't (can't?) sit through a meal or a short homework assignment without thinking of something else she wants to do every single minute. Not exaggerating. She's popping out of her seat every sixty seconds or more. She gets corrected in class for talking when she should be listening, wandering off when she should be working. She's very emotional-- cries easily, overflows with empathy for others, gets so excited about little things (new toothpaste! a dandelion puff! going out for pizza!) that she can't breathe.

She's also happy and loving and funny, friends with everyone, and hitting academic milestones ahead of schedule. She is a pleaser, so when someone corrects her (or, ok, loses patience and snaps at her), she is upset. For about one minute. Then it's back to the hummingbird behavior-- happy and flighty.

Until recently, I thought "Kids will be kids!" But now I'm looking at other children and beginning to be afraid.

Can you tell me about your daughter who has been diagnosed? What did it look like? What steps are you taking?

I would have your child evaluated for ADHD. Have a test like the TOVA done. Then you will be able to see if she has an attention problem and if so, what kind and how severe. Then you can target her specific issues. Not all ADD and ADHD children are the same and different strategies work for different children. I have found evaluation invaluable in understanding why my child has certain behaviors and a launching pad for figuring out what to do. Since you are worried about medications, know that they are not for every child diagnosed with ADHD nor should they be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:$3600 for an evaluation? What do poor parents do?

--Ask the school
--Look for an NIH study (seriously)
--Suck it up and ask relatives for $ help/loan

Also, I would not rely on a single test to determine whether a kid is ADHD. Some things like receptive speech delays or auditory processing problems look like inattentiveness. That's why going with a full eval is ideal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$3600 for an evaluation? What do poor parents do?

--Ask the school
--Look for an NIH study (seriously)
--Suck it up and ask relatives for $ help/loan

Also, I would not rely on a single test to determine whether a kid is ADHD. Some things like receptive speech delays or auditory processing problems look like inattentiveness. That's why going with a full eval is ideal.

Yes,PP, the psychoeducational evaluations are costly. I actually paid that amount for two kids. The psychologist told me she was cutting me a break. It would have normally been over $5000 for two. Poor parents have to contend with getting the school psychologist to conduct an evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$3600 for an evaluation? What do poor parents do?

--Ask the school
--Look for an NIH study (seriously)
--Suck it up and ask relatives for $ help/loan

Also, I would not rely on a single test to determine whether a kid is ADHD. Some things like receptive speech delays or auditory processing problems look like inattentiveness. That's why going with a full eval is ideal.

Yes,PP, the psychoeducational evaluations are costly. I actually paid that amount for two kids. The psychologist told me she was cutting me a break. It would have normally been over $5000 for two. Poor parents have to contend with getting the school psychologist to conduct an evaluation.

we did the evaluation at Children's (the costs was about $3500) and it was covered by our insurance (BCBS Federal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- You're being unfair to me, or you're reading selectively. I am not sticking my head in the sand, I'm beginning to explore the possibility by posting here.

I do not fear stigma. I don't know how I can say more plainly that my aversion to medicalizing her behavior has NOTHING to do with other people and their perceptions. I DO know that MY child will latch on to any excuse not to do something she doesn't want to do. This is the kid who, when punished for bad behavior at age barely-3, said "I did it because I'm hungry and tired". After all, WE used that excuse, didn't we? Why shouldn't she?

I do not think that psychoactive drugs are the right move for MY six year old who is not setting things on fire. I do not judge you for it. I want her to learn strategies, and *I* want to learn strategies. If your only strategies were medical, then perhaps we'll have things to say to each other in three or four years. For the moment, though, I would very much appreciate some thoughts on these early days.

As for "intending to ignore good advice", that's uncalled for. There is no one right answer. I would be doing my daughter a greater disservice by blindly following than by asking questions based on what I know about her.

I'm gently suggesting you be more considerate in your approach. You say you're asking questions based on what you know about your DD but you clearly have some preconceived notions about ADHD and treatments. You really need to do more research on what ADHD is and is not. The strategies you seek aren't just good for people with ADHD, they're good for ALL people. You can find them in the books recommended, taking a Positive Discipline class , reading books like 123 Magic, organizing/homework resources such as Ann Dolin http://anndolin.ectutoring.com/homework-made-simple/ and, of course, CHADD http://www.chadd.org/. It may be your lack of background knowledge that causes you to write things that, frankly, come across as insulting, obtuse and insensitive. Your writings show a significant lack of understanding of ADHD and, therefore, discussing management (non-pharmicological and or otherwise) techniques with you is difficult. You just don't have the knowledge level needed. It's not enough to know about your DD, you need to know about ADHD, which you don't and which is the true disservice to your DD. Educate yourself and then come back and ask for assistance.

In closing, I can't help but point out that your statement about not medicating because your DD isn’t setting things on fire is insulting and inaccurate. I believe that wasn’t your intention but it does illustrate how little you know about ADHD and treatment. My DS with ADHD is not in the least hyperactive or impulsive. He's ADHD/Inattentive which is probably the most difficult to diagnose in the younger ages because it lacks many of the hallmark ADHD symptoms. We use medication with him, not because he's setting things on fire, but because despite his best efforts he cannot regulate his attention. ADHD is a neurological disorder and expecting him to 'try harder' would have been cruel, ineffective and crushing. His brain IS different and the medication (a non-stimulant) helps him because he cannot help himself. He also knows his brain is different because we want him to be self-aware and understand why he's different. Sure, he’ll sometimes try to use it as an excuse but what kid doesn’t make excuses? You really need to learn a lot more about ADHD because until you do, you really can't help your DD in the way she'll need to be helped and you'll continue to insult a lot of good people who don't deserve it.

[Anonymous]

^^^+100^^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here- You're being unfair to me, or you're reading selectively. I am not sticking my head in the sand, I'm beginning to explore the possibility by posting here.

I do not fear stigma. I don't know how I can say more plainly that my aversion to medicalizing her behavior has NOTHING to do with other people and their perceptions. I DO know that MY child will latch on to any excuse not to do something she doesn't want to do. This is the kid who, when punished for bad behavior at age barely-3, said "I did it because I'm hungry and tired". After all, WE used that excuse, didn't we? Why shouldn't she?

I do not think that psychoactive drugs are the right move for MY six year old who is not setting things on fire. I do not judge you for it. I want her to learn strategies, and *I* want to learn strategies. If your only strategies were medical, then perhaps we'll have things to say to each other in three or four years. For the moment, though, I would very much appreciate some thoughts on these early days.

As for "intending to ignore good advice", that's uncalled for. There is no one right answer. I would be doing my daughter a greater disservice by blindly following than by asking questions based on what I know about her.

OP, your reaction seems a little defensive. I have a 7yr daughter who sounds like yours. she was the terror of her daycare, and after playing like crazy all day until 5.30, mu DH had to take her to the playground for another full hour before coming home, even was she was only 2. I was like that as a child (never diagnosed, always very advanced academically, but now I realize my awful disorganization, getting things done at the last moment, always borderline late, chronic procrastination, may have a reason) and I thought that was normal. with the second child, I saw it was not. we had our DD evaluated at 6. she had clra traits of ADHD (she has a highh IQ, emotionally mature for her age, but executive functions are very low). she gets distracted extremely easy, cannot sit down even for a meal, and she is a sensory seeker. as your child, she overflows with empathy for the entire universe, people, plants, animals. we were against medications, and still are. medications are really the last resort possible. we are not medicating her , but knowing what she has has helped us tremendously. she has an IEP at school (my DD has also another medical problem and the extra help she gets with the IEP was necessary) your DD may not need it, but may benefit for special accomodations, especially when she gets older. from what you say, her behavior is already affeting her at school. getting her evaluated would just give you the knowledge of what she has (if anything), and the tools to help her cope and deal with her own nature. this is not making excuses, or putting labels, is facing reality. in short, knowing what you are dealing with is the first step to know what you need to do about it, and how you can help your DD grow up into a functioning, happy and confident adult. she may grow up, mature and learn on her own how to cope, but she may not and loose self estime in the process. I understand your reluctance in madicating her, but I do not understand your reluctance in having her evaluated when you admit that somethignh is off and that you are scared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$3600 for an evaluation? What do poor parents do?

--Ask the school
--Look for an NIH study (seriously)
--Suck it up and ask relatives for $ help/loan

Also, I would not rely on a single test to determine whether a kid is ADHD. Some things like receptive speech delays or auditory processing problems look like inattentiveness. That's why going with a full eval is ideal.

Yes,PP, the psychoeducational evaluations are costly. I actually paid that amount for two kids. The psychologist told me she was cutting me a break. It would have normally been over $5000 for two. Poor parents have to contend with getting the school psychologist to conduct an evaluation.

Thank you, PP!

we did the evaluation at Children's (the costs was about $3500) and it was covered by our insurance (BCBS Federal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- You're being unfair to me, or you're reading selectively. I am not sticking my head in the sand, I'm beginning to explore the possibility by posting here.

I do not fear stigma. I don't know how I can say more plainly that my aversion to medicalizing her behavior has NOTHING to do with other people and their perceptions. I DO know that MY child will latch on to any excuse not to do something she doesn't want to do. This is the kid who, when punished for bad behavior at age barely-3, said "I did it because I'm hungry and tired". After all, WE used that excuse, didn't we? Why shouldn't she?

I do not think that psychoactive drugs are the right move for MY six year old who is not setting things on fire. I do not judge you for it. I want her to learn strategies, and *I* want to learn strategies. If your only strategies were medical, then perhaps we'll have things to say to each other in three or four years. For the moment, though, I would very much appreciate some thoughts on these early days.

As for "intending to ignore good advice", that's uncalled for. There is no one right answer. I would be doing my daughter a greater disservice by blindly following than by asking questions based on what I know about her.

OP, your reaction seems a little defensive. I have a 7yr daughter who sounds like yours. she was the terror of her daycare, and after playing like crazy all day until 5.30, mu DH had to take her to the playground for another full hour before coming home, even was she was only 2. I was like that as a child (never diagnosed, always very advanced academically, but now I realize my awful disorganization, getting things done at the last moment, always borderline late, chronic procrastination, may have a reason) and I thought that was normal. with the second child, I saw it was not. we had our DD evaluated at 6. she had clra traits of ADHD (she has a highh IQ, emotionally mature for her age, but executive functions are very low). she gets distracted extremely easy, cannot sit down even for a meal, and she is a sensory seeker. as your child, she overflows with empathy for the entire universe, people, plants, animals. we were against medications, and still are. medications are really the last resort possible. we are not medicating her , but knowing what she has has helped us tremendously. she has an IEP at school (my DD has also another medical problem and the extra help she gets with the IEP was necessary) your DD may not need it, but may benefit for special accomodations, especially when she gets older. from what you say, her behavior is already affeting her at school. getting her evaluated would just give you the knowledge of what she has (if anything), and the tools to help her cope and deal with her own nature. this is not making excuses, or putting labels, is facing reality. in short, knowing what you are dealing with is the first step to know what you need to do about it, and how you can help your DD grow up into a functioning, happy and confident adult. she may grow up, mature and learn on her own how to cope, but she may not and loose self estime in the process. I understand your reluctance in madicating her, but I do not understand your reluctance in having her evaluated when you admit that somethignh is off and that you are scared.

To the 8:51 poster: did your organizational skills improve? Do you work? How did you overcome this?

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the responses but similar to the OP, I am starting the journey. I was worried about labels and stigmas, but the bottom line is for public school you will not get special services without an IEP. You won't get an IEP or 504 without a diagnosis. The school is not going to diagnose a medical condition like ADD/ ADHD so you will need to spend money at a minimum for a developmental pediatrician to do an evaluation (likely covered by insurance) and then decide if a full neuropych evaluation is worth pursuing. We applied to one of the NIH studies for ADHD. We were able to get the brain imaging, psychological testing, parent and teacher forms for the survey analyzed and checks for comorbidity like depression as part of participating in the study. Our daughter even got a small stipend so she loved it. My mom joked that we shouldn't have told our daughter a stipend was involved because she would put on a show and be at her most charming and engaging.

If you want to read up on typical behavior, CHADD (hhttp://www.chadd.org/) has a checklist. You may also want to dip your toe in and start going to CHADD sessions and support groups. I sent my husband to one and it was eye opening for him. I think it was more valuable for him to get info first hand than for me to forward articles or tell him about what I read in a book. It's also useful to talk to other parents going through the same thing.

As for what works, I've heard often that not only is every kid different, but things change over time so what works today may not work tomorrow. Lots of parents say medication has made the biggest difference but I don't known that it has been medication alone or that medication has always worked. I do get what you are saying about making excuses. The way I explained it to my daughter was by watching "Miracle Worker" - the Hellen Keller Story. We talked about how Helen was blind and deaf and her parents thought her behavior with the tantrums and food etc. was all they could expect because Helen couldn't talk. Anne Sullivan said it was not an excuse. Helen could communicate, she just had to learn a different way to communicate. Watching the movie and hearing how Helen went on to write books, attend college, and meet several presidents was a reminder that you can still accomplish great things, but it may be differently. So I do expect my daughter to learn coping strategies and I do expect (though in public school I have been disappointed so far) for the school to help find what works and teach those strategies. It is possible medication may be part of what works but that too requires responsibility (e.g monitoring side effects, eating to balance reduced appetites for some medication, understanding how to cope with the medication wearing off, taking medicine at the same time)

So far, we try to keep our daughter active with sports etc. She also responds well to having a checklist to help with the morning routine. We also use timers to help break items down at home. Our daughter likes a certain amount of control but at the same time she gets off task very easily so something like a checklist or having her help come up with what days she will work on longer term projects without letting her wait till the last minute gives her input and control over when something gets done but within tight parameters. She responds well to positive reinforcement and activites make better rewards than food or things. We normally put a fun activity after a not so fun activity, for example, we will let the kids watch 30 minutes of "Amazing Race" after homework is done (and reviewed) and its done by 8pm.