What makes a couple work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you don’t really know what’s going on in people’s relationships. I can’t think of a single relationship where once I see a little under the surface, it’s what I would describe as good. Many start off this way, but I think raising kids in this society invariably destroys hetero marriage.

That's a really sad commentary on life. I can't speak for others, but I know I'm in a happy marriage. It's not perfect, because people aren't perfect and life is hard, so yeah, we get annoyed with each other sometimes, but we've been married for 15 years, together for longer than that, we have two middle school kids, we both work full-time, and we've been through the death of three parents, job changes, moves, death of pets, etc. You can believe me or not but our marriage is good. I have one other friend couple of whom I would confidently say the same, probably two. But they're my two best friends of many decades and we know a lot about each other's lives.

I think there are just stages of life that are not happy sometimes. For example DD had a rare health condition. For years it was very hard. I did not feel that DH really had a grasp of what was going on or was supportive emotionally. I would not call my marriage happy in those years, I don’t really know what I want thinking about the marriage. But he was there. He was driving us halfway across the country to appointments, he was sitting beside me in the hospital, he was often very confused about the medical stuff and not really able to connect with my concerns, but he was there. And sometimes that really is enough. Your spouse is your person that you walk through life with and it’s not necessarily the happiest and he’s not necessarily the best match for you but you know what, sometimes just being there is enough.

[Anonymous]

Happily married for 27 years. Patience is probably the most important, but also respect and kindness

[Anonymous]

Communication is really key.

[Anonymous]

I think the main thing is emotional regulation. You have two people who can do that—rest is pretty easy.
Most people can’t though which is why divorce rate is so high.
I don’t think it’s a big mystery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you don’t really know what’s going on in people’s relationships. I can’t think of a single relationship where once I see a little under the surface, it’s what I would describe as good. Many start off this way, but I think raising kids in this society invariably destroys hetero marriage.

That's a really sad commentary on life. I can't speak for others, but I know I'm in a happy marriage. It's not perfect, because people aren't perfect and life is hard, so yeah, we get annoyed with each other sometimes, but we've been married for 15 years, together for longer than that, we have two middle school kids, we both work full-time, and we've been through the death of three parents, job changes, moves, death of pets, etc. You can believe me or not but our marriage is good. I have one other friend couple of whom I would confidently say the same, probably two. But they're my two best friends of many decades and we know a lot about each other's lives.

I think there are just stages of life that are not happy sometimes. For example DD had a rare health condition. For years it was very hard. I did not feel that DH really had a grasp of what was going on or was supportive emotionally. I would not call my marriage happy in those years, I don’t really know what I want thinking about the marriage. But he was there. He was driving us halfway across the country to appointments, he was sitting beside me in the hospital, he was often very confused about the medical stuff and not really able to connect with my concerns, but he was there. And sometimes that really is enough. Your spouse is your person that you walk through life with and it’s not necessarily the happiest and he’s not necessarily the best match for you but you know what, sometimes just being there is enough.

This comment is the one I identify with most so far on this thread. DH and I have been married 29 years. We do have similar values, chief among them loyalty to friends and family and a mutual need for a stable, loving, intellectually stimulating home life with someone you respect who entertains you. But we are both stubborn people, and fight plenty. He has anger management issues that have affected me and the kids in negative ways, sometimes causing me to despair and question whether I need to push him harder to do better. He’d have valid complaints about me as well if he spent time thinking about them. Usually he doesn’t care to. But we will both always be there for each other and the kids.

At the end of the day, I think you choose your best friends for the pleasure and joy they bring you. A good spouse occupies a different role, which is in most cases less fun but more noble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, all of the above. But being in my 50s and seeing pretty much all my friends get married, and having the benefit to see which marriages last and which don't.....

The biggest correlation is mental health issues. Mental health issues honestly drive almost all the things people mention in the previous posts.

Google AI says 25% of people suffer mental health issues in any year - depression, anxiety, adhd, bipolar, personality disorders, asd. But obviously depression and anxiety are the biggest bucket, and they can come and go. So 25% in any year, results in much higher numbers of marriages impacted over the life of the marriage. Legit mental health issues run through probably 50% of our friends marriages (which incidentally tracks with the 25% number - assuming only one half of the couple is struggling with mental health).

I look through the recent divorces in our world, and can pinpoint:
- ADHD/depression/bipolar as the clear reason for divorce
- severe depression
- ASD plus sex addiction (daily prostitutes - ugh)

Those are all diagnosed. My best friend's husband has SOMETHING going on but refuses to diagnose. My guess is BPD. They'll divorce soon enough.

In short, while plenty of marriages last through the mental health issues, the divorces i know were all directly linked to mental health issues. So while i can't answer OP's question of what makes the good relationships good, the bad ones are clearly mental health related.

I used to agree with this until I dated a man who had zero mental health issues whatsoever. Like, he had literally seen a therapist since everyone was doing it, and the therapist was all "you're good, no need to see anyone".

He was really difficult to be with. It was like dating Joy from Inside Out. He'd try to empathize with people, but couldn't at all because he was just so freaking happy all the time. I don't have any severe issues, but I do get sad, depressed, anxious, stressed from time to time like any normal human. And he didn't know how to be supportive at all beyond just "be positive!". Or worse, making the absolute cringiest jokes imaginable to try to "cheer me up".

Now, if it's mental health issues they can't seem to shake, that's worth dumping over. My xH had ADHD and chronic depression, and it was awful. But I do want someone who has the normal spectrum of human emotions.

Sounds like the guy could have used some therapy to address his toxic positivity. That can be just as damaging as being depressed. I also doubt a therapist would tell him he has absolutely nothing to work on.

PP. I don’t necessarily think it was toxic positivity. It wasn’t that he couldn’t tolerate other emotions in people, he just couldn’t relate to them or understand them. He really just was happy all the time, like a Labrador. I don’t know if he just had extra serotonin or what. But he was also successful, handsome, and had tons of friends who loved him. And extremely extroverted, the most extroverted person I’ve ever met.

I don’t know what he would have worked on with a therapist. Maybe how to be more empathetic? It was weird, because it wasn’t like previous men I’ve dated where they try to shut down your emotions or argue with you. If I was upset over something he did, he would apologize, make it right, and not do it again, but it always felt like he didn’t truly *understand* why I would be upset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, all of the above. But being in my 50s and seeing pretty much all my friends get married, and having the benefit to see which marriages last and which don't.....

The biggest correlation is mental health issues. Mental health issues honestly drive almost all the things people mention in the previous posts.

Google AI says 25% of people suffer mental health issues in any year - depression, anxiety, adhd, bipolar, personality disorders, asd. But obviously depression and anxiety are the biggest bucket, and they can come and go. So 25% in any year, results in much higher numbers of marriages impacted over the life of the marriage. Legit mental health issues run through probably 50% of our friends marriages (which incidentally tracks with the 25% number - assuming only one half of the couple is struggling with mental health).

I look through the recent divorces in our world, and can pinpoint:
- ADHD/depression/bipolar as the clear reason for divorce
- severe depression
- ASD plus sex addiction (daily prostitutes - ugh)

Those are all diagnosed. My best friend's husband has SOMETHING going on but refuses to diagnose. My guess is BPD. They'll divorce soon enough.

In short, while plenty of marriages last through the mental health issues, the divorces i know were all directly linked to mental health issues. So while i can't answer OP's question of what makes the good relationships good, the bad ones are clearly mental health related.

I used to agree with this until I dated a man who had zero mental health issues whatsoever. Like, he had literally seen a therapist since everyone was doing it, and the therapist was all "you're good, no need to see anyone".

He was really difficult to be with. It was like dating Joy from Inside Out. He'd try to empathize with people, but couldn't at all because he was just so freaking happy all the time. I don't have any severe issues, but I do get sad, depressed, anxious, stressed from time to time like any normal human. And he didn't know how to be supportive at all beyond just "be positive!". Or worse, making the absolute cringiest jokes imaginable to try to "cheer me up".

Now, if it's mental health issues they can't seem to shake, that's worth dumping over. My xH had ADHD and chronic depression, and it was awful. But I do want someone who has the normal spectrum of human emotions.

This is so interesting to me. I am a woman who has to manage my own severe anxiety/depression and I’m usually drawn to golden retriever type upbeat guys, but then I do often feel somewhat alone and adrift when they are just positive ALL the time.

Maybe this has to do with the fact that, as a couple, you are constantly witnessing and building a shared reality together - and when it feels like your senses of reality are *completely* at odds, it’s very destabilizing. But at the same time, depression and anxiety can seriously distort reality…so it just requires a lot of communication and understanding I guess. Interesting thread!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you don’t really know what’s going on in people’s relationships. I can’t think of a single relationship where once I see a little under the surface, it’s what I would describe as good. Many start off this way, but I think raising kids in this society invariably destroys hetero marriage.

That's a really sad commentary on life. I can't speak for others, but I know I'm in a happy marriage. It's not perfect, because people aren't perfect and life is hard, so yeah, we get annoyed with each other sometimes, but we've been married for 15 years, together for longer than that, we have two middle school kids, we both work full-time, and we've been through the death of three parents, job changes, moves, death of pets, etc. You can believe me or not but our marriage is good. I have one other friend couple of whom I would confidently say the same, probably two. But they're my two best friends of many decades and we know a lot about each other's lives.

I think there are just stages of life that are not happy sometimes. For example DD had a rare health condition. For years it was very hard. I did not feel that DH really had a grasp of what was going on or was supportive emotionally. I would not call my marriage happy in those years, I don’t really know what I want thinking about the marriage. But he was there. He was driving us halfway across the country to appointments, he was sitting beside me in the hospital, he was often very confused about the medical stuff and not really able to connect with my concerns, but he was there. And sometimes that really is enough. Your spouse is your person that you walk through life with and it’s not necessarily the happiest and he’s not necessarily the best match for you but you know what, sometimes just being there is enough.

So to the original PP's point, even during that really tough time, I'd say if she looked under the surface (where you were both probably outwardly unhappy), she would see that your marriage was good.

[Anonymous]

“I do more” is the poison that kills any marriage. Always put your spouse first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A sense of humor. Empathy. The ability to say you're sorry.

Also, don't doubt that your friend is just good at picking the right people for her. My best friend is in a happy marriage but I'd never want to be married to her husband.

The people I know in (outwardly at least) happy marriages really appreciate each other’s strengths. I think there was even research that showed that when couples are like that, both partners make the effort to be better people and it’s a positive feedback loop.

But often when I meet men in those marriages I realize I wouldn’t be the one who appreciates him. 😂🤣😂

Weirdly, on the rare occasion I meet a guy who is very attractive and kind, their wives often seem kind of over them.

Almost like they act one way in public but a totally different way at home in private… hmmm….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure, all of the above. But being in my 50s and seeing pretty much all my friends get married, and having the benefit to see which marriages last and which don't.....

The biggest correlation is mental health issues. Mental health issues honestly drive almost all the things people mention in the previous posts.

Google AI says 25% of people suffer mental health issues in any year - depression, anxiety, adhd, bipolar, personality disorders, asd. But obviously depression and anxiety are the biggest bucket, and they can come and go. So 25% in any year, results in much higher numbers of marriages impacted over the life of the marriage. Legit mental health issues run through probably 50% of our friends marriages (which incidentally tracks with the 25% number - assuming only one half of the couple is struggling with mental health).

I look through the recent divorces in our world, and can pinpoint:
- ADHD/depression/bipolar as the clear reason for divorce
- severe depression
- ASD plus sex addiction (daily prostitutes - ugh)

Those are all diagnosed. My best friend's husband has SOMETHING going on but refuses to diagnose. My guess is BPD. They'll divorce soon enough.

In short, while plenty of marriages last through the mental health issues, the divorces i know were all directly linked to mental health issues. So while i can't answer OP's question of what makes the good relationships good, the bad ones are clearly mental health related.

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sure, all of the above. But being in my 50s and seeing pretty much all my friends get married, and having the benefit to see which marriages last and which don't.....

The biggest correlation is mental health issues. Mental health issues honestly drive almost all the things people mention in the previous posts.

Google AI says 25% of people suffer mental health issues in any year - depression, anxiety, adhd, bipolar, personality disorders, asd. But obviously depression and anxiety are the biggest bucket, and they can come and go. So 25% in any year, results in much higher numbers of marriages impacted over the life of the marriage. Legit mental health issues run through probably 50% of our friends marriages (which incidentally tracks with the 25% number - assuming only one half of the couple is struggling with mental health).

I look through the recent divorces in our world, and can pinpoint:
- ADHD/depression/bipolar as the clear reason for divorce
- severe depression
- ASD plus sex addiction (daily prostitutes - ugh)

Those are all diagnosed. My best friend's husband has SOMETHING going on but refuses to diagnose. My guess is BPD. They'll divorce soon enough.

In short, while plenty of marriages last through the mental health issues, the divorces i know were all directly linked to mental health issues. So while i can't answer OP's question of what makes the good relationships good, the bad ones are clearly mental health related.

My mental health took a severe downturn when my partner consistently neglected our relationship despite my efforts to reconnect.
My friend’s mental health suffered when her DH cheated on her.
My mother’s mental health suffered when she shouldered 95% of all childrearing and household work.

None of this happens in a vacuum. People like to think that cheating and mental illness are inherent flaws in humans, but they are invariably a product of their environment, a main part of which is their primary relationship.

Just the fact that you can ID your mental health took a downturn or you had acute depression or anxiety likely means you don’t have any of those aforementioned mental disorders.

Mental disorders - asd, adhd, bipolar, borderline, schizophrenia- need diagnoses and management of symptoms. Otherwise then secondary orders conditions pop up like depression and anxiety in them- and others around them feel like they are living in a crazy land.

[Anonymous]

I think maturity plays a big part. You can’t sweat the small stuff or be insecure.

I also think it’s people can be happy in marriages very different than your own.

I have a friend whose husband is codependent and just a difficult person in general. She’s truly happy and their dynamic works well for them but would drive me insane. Another friend rules the roost in their home and I always wonder why her DH doesn’t ever push back but they both seem very happy as well.

I’m sure they would say our dynamics wouldn’t work for them. We’ve all been married 30+ years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am 34 years into a great marriage and what makes mine work is two things: shared values (including about money) and that we're genuinely nice to each other all the time.

Not quite as deep as you, but agree with these points broadly. My husband and I have always agreed on the following:

1. Family is the most important thing.
2. He leads the family.
3. We make unique contributions to the family. For instance, we don't "split" chores. I do laundry. He does repairs. I do the checkbook and he handles investments. Our work is complementary.
4. All resources, including money, belong to the family. We don't have rules about what to discuss, but we have never fought over money. It helps that we make a comfortable living, but we are by no means loaded. Because the family comes first, we know what we prioritize in terms of family resources.
5. We communicate well. If there is a disagreement, I defer to him. He is almost always right and has much better judgment than I.
6. I get to pick vacations. He doesn't care much.
7. It helps that he's attractive and personable. If I died tomorrow, women would clamor for him. I still can't believe he chose me. Attraction comes at a price because those guys get their pick of the litter, so to speak.
8. Related to #7, I made a choice when we got serious that his job came first. I would have thrown my career away for him, if he had asked. It didn't come to that, but prioritizing our relationship is the best decision I've ever made. All the best things in my life followed that decision, and I'd make it again tomorrow, if I could. The only thing I asked from him was serious commitment, and he proposed six month after we started dating. That's unusual in our circles, but he was serious about family, too. That's been the core shared value. See #1.

I just can't with religious people. God doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you don’t really know what’s going on in people’s relationships. I can’t think of a single relationship where once I see a little under the surface, it’s what I would describe as good. Many start off this way, but I think raising kids in this society invariably destroys hetero marriage.

That's a really sad commentary on life. I can't speak for others, but I know I'm in a happy marriage. It's not perfect, because people aren't perfect and life is hard, so yeah, we get annoyed with each other sometimes, but we've been married for 15 years, together for longer than that, we have two middle school kids, we both work full-time, and we've been through the death of three parents, job changes, moves, death of pets, etc. You can believe me or not but our marriage is good. I have one other friend couple of whom I would confidently say the same, probably two. But they're my two best friends of many decades and we know a lot about each other's lives.

I think there are just stages of life that are not happy sometimes. For example DD had a rare health condition. For years it was very hard. I did not feel that DH really had a grasp of what was going on or was supportive emotionally. I would not call my marriage happy in those years, I don’t really know what I want thinking about the marriage. But he was there. He was driving us halfway across the country to appointments, he was sitting beside me in the hospital, he was often very confused about the medical stuff and not really able to connect with my concerns, but he was there. And sometimes that really is enough. Your spouse is your person that you walk through life with and it’s not necessarily the happiest and he’s not necessarily the best match for you but you know what, sometimes just being there is enough.

So to the original PP's point, even during that really tough time, I'd say if she looked under the surface (where you were both probably outwardly unhappy), she would see that your marriage was good.

Good, but is it happy? I wouldn’t call my marriage happy. This guy drives me nuts. But if I get sick he will take care of me. So I guess the marriage is “good.”