It's All on Me Because DH Never Sees a Problem

[Anonymous]

I was in a hit-and-run on River Road 15 years ago. A large truck scraped against the left side of my car, with two young children in the back seat, and left without even perhaps realizing what it had done (or the driver knew and still drove past me?). Both doors were dented and scratched. We filed a claim, got some money... and did not get the doors repaired at any body shop. My husband looked at YouTube videos on repairing dents and manage to smooth out the worst of them, and most importantly, he put anti-rust on the scratches that had torn the paint off. That's it.

That car is now 20 years old and will not die. It's more reliable than our more recent car.
We drive it, scratches and small dents and all.

Just FYI, this is a possible outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're too in the weeds. He's too hands-off. You probably got like this because you both react to each other.

My husband is like yours, and instead of stressing myself out to correct every little thing, I let a ton of stuff slide. I have to. I would drive myself crazy trying to rush around living both our lives. So we muddle through, and we try to focus on the actually important things.

+1.

OP, a lot of this would also drive me crazy too.

On the car - if it's driveable and he's the primary driver of the car then leave it up to him to do anything.

On the cleaning - hire housecleaners. Tell him the choice is the cost or you make a chore chart and he agrees to follow it.

On activities for the kids - just do them and let him gripe. My husband refuses to acknowledge that the house occasionally needs preventive maintenance or actual maintenance. I'm not going argue that the driveway is crumbling and needs to be re-surfaced. I'm just going to have the people come and do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're too in the weeds. He's too hands-off. You probably got like this because you both react to each other.

My husband is like yours, and instead of stressing myself out to correct every little thing, I let a ton of stuff slide. I have to. I would drive myself crazy trying to rush around living both our lives. So we muddle through, and we try to focus on the actually important things.

+1.

OP, a lot of this would also drive me crazy too.

On the car - if it's driveable and he's the primary driver of the car then leave it up to him to do anything.

On the cleaning - hire housecleaners. Tell him the choice is the cost or you make a chore chart and he agrees to follow it.

On activities for the kids - just do them and let him gripe. My husband refuses to acknowledge that the house occasionally needs preventive maintenance or actual maintenance. I'm not going argue that the driveway is crumbling and needs to be re-surfaced. I'm just going to have the people come and do it.

I am very, very, very close to hiring house cleaners. I've tried to work with him and not spend large amounts unless we both agree, but that leaves me doing it all. We've had chore charts several times. He does what he agreed to do for 1, maybe 2 weeks, then stops. When I've brough up cleaners he always says "it isn't that much work, we can do it ourselves." But that really is just me doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

He ignores the systems he agreed to.

[Anonymous]

OP based on your last two replies, why don't you sit him down like you would a colleague and come up with solutions. You have to do it when you're not mad, and not going to blame him. You wouldn't respond well to someone who did that either. Don't be a boss, be a lateral.

If you want to come with a proposal, come at it with data. Cost, how it fits into budget, priorities. Can you fit a regular date night in? GL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

He’s not refusing to solve a problem, though. He simply doesn’t think there is a problem to be solved, here. And that’s okay!

You sound like one of those absolute energy vampires at work, making mountains out of molehills rather than focusing on stuff that actually matters. That behavior is the opposite of productive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP based on your last two replies, why don't you sit him down like you would a colleague and come up with solutions. You have to do it when you're not mad, and not going to blame him. You wouldn't respond well to someone who did that either. Don't be a boss, be a lateral.

If you want to come with a proposal, come at it with data. Cost, how it fits into budget, priorities. Can you fit a regular date night in? GL!

I don't understand. If DH were a colleague I would do my work. He would do his work. The final product would show my contributions and lack of his. A boss would notice and give appropriate feedback/promotion. How does that apply here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

He’s not refusing to solve a problem, though. He simply doesn’t think there is a problem to be solved, here. And that’s okay!

You sound like one of those absolute energy vampires at work, making mountains out of molehills rather than focusing on stuff that actually matters. That behavior is the opposite of productive.

He is literally doing nothing and telling me there is nothing that can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're too in the weeds. He's too hands-off. You probably got like this because you both react to each other.

My husband is like yours, and instead of stressing myself out to correct every little thing, I let a ton of stuff slide. I have to. I would drive myself crazy trying to rush around living both our lives. So we muddle through, and we try to focus on the actually important things.

How do you do that? Can you give examples of what stuff you let slide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most marriages are like this, at least on this board.

“On this board” being the critical bit.

OP, call your insurance, set up a body shop and time to drop it to be fixed. Tell DH to take it and pick it up. If he doesn’t, take it and uber home and let him figure out how to get his car back.

As for the rest, you’ll have to stop doing whatever is important to him.

Most families have two working parents.

Your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

He’s not refusing to solve a problem, though. He simply doesn’t think there is a problem to be solved, here. And that’s okay!

You sound like one of those absolute energy vampires at work, making mountains out of molehills rather than focusing on stuff that actually matters. That behavior is the opposite of productive.

He is literally doing nothing and telling me there is nothing that can be done.

And that's lying and gas lighting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

He’s not refusing to solve a problem, though. He simply doesn’t think there is a problem to be solved, here. And that’s okay!

You sound like one of those absolute energy vampires at work, making mountains out of molehills rather than focusing on stuff that actually matters. That behavior is the opposite of productive.

He is literally doing nothing and telling me there is nothing that can be done.

And that's lying and gas lighting!

Thank you. Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH came in this morning and told me someone hit our car. He has no idea who, or when. The car was perfectly fine when he left this morning. It was perfectly fine when he parked it yesterday afternoon. He only noticed it when he came out of his morning appointment, but "who knows when it happened." Since the car door opens he says, oh well, there is nothing to be done about it, not worth calling insurance over or asking neighbors if they have doorcams, or the office he was at this morning. This is classic DH. There is a problem. He does nothing to fix it.

What would you do 1) about the car and 2) with a DH who generally claims things aren't a problem so if it's such a big deal to me then I have to do something. We're talking very basic stuff like cleaning bathrooms and floors more than once every two months (we have children!), fresh fruits and vegetables (on the rare occasion he cooks, never any vegetables even though they are in the refrigerator), activities for kids (aside from 1 week of scout camp he thinks the kids should just "find something to do.") I don't put them in camps all summer but I do take them places, mostly free, but occasionally there is a fee for a water park or something. And then he complains it is unnecessary. He thinks I'm "making work" for myself and creating unnecessary expenses (we can easily afford the things I do with the kids).

I feel like he's constantly adding to my "To Do List" because I'm cleaning up behind him and finishing what he leaves undone, while he spends developing new skills and on his hobbies. I have no free time because he leaves things undone or refuses to do anything and says if I care so much its on me to do something. I'm so frustrated. And now I have to figure out this car dent too, or drive around a banged-up car.

JFC do you hear yourself? He’s not adding ANYTHING to your list - YOU ARE!

He doesn’t expect you to solve the mystery of the door dent! YOU DO!

I agree with this. I scraped up my new car last year and was so upset, and DH was like "no biggie." I can't imagine if the roles were reversed on this board. I'm glad we each give each other leeway.

Why don't couples have systems? Our system was always I deal with my car, he deals with his, even when I was a SAHM. Who makes dinner? Who buys kids clothes? It's exhausting to make decisions every damn day and try to negotiate with a spouse. Negotiate over a glass of wine, then decide once. You wouldn't act like this at work.

DH doesn't act like this at work where he is very proactive, solution oriented, and likes to figure out how to solve problems. He sees himself as a problem solver. At home, he is all "I have no idea what to do about a dented car. I didn't see who did it so there is no possible way to figure it out. I'm not calling insurance. I'm not getting an estimate. We now have a dented car. Nothing to be done."

He’s not refusing to solve a problem, though. He simply doesn’t think there is a problem to be solved, here. And that’s okay!

You sound like one of those absolute energy vampires at work, making mountains out of molehills rather than focusing on stuff that actually matters. That behavior is the opposite of productive.

He is literally doing nothing and telling me there is nothing that can be done.

And that's lying and gas lighting!

It sounds like neither one started a conversation about it. He could have said, "Oh man, I noticed the car had been hit. I'm not sure it's worth it to call insurance? I'm driving it and don't mind, or want to possibly increase premiums."

Or, she could have said, after he commented, "Oh man, do you think it's bad enough to get repaired? Should we call insurance to explore actions?"

Or, a gazillion other ways. This couple is not communicating. It doesn't benefit OP either.