Why the obsession over APs, spying and "catching" DH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leaving is hard, even in the case of severe abuse and serial infidelity. It's even harder when you're married to a gaslighter, and cheating and gaslighting go hand in hand. You find yourself questioning reality and need a lot of evidence and support to leave.

No you don't need evidence. Most women just don't to believe it's actually happening to them. It's their worst nightmare. They know it has happened to other women.

Frankly I wish women just didn't stay married to unfaithful men. If my wife cheats I am out..I am not going to waste my time and energy on therapy to understand why she cheated. There are countless men she can start her life over with. She didn't deserve a chance to explain/justify herself to the man she married. A divorce will set her free and life will be amazing for her.

You need evidence when the person cheating on you is also gaslighting you so much that you lose confidence in your judgment and discernment. You need hard evidence to know what is real. You get it for yourself. Just listen to all the women who have reported some version of this here.

Once you're that far gone, you won't believe even the most obvious "proof". You either respect yourself enough to leave or you don't.

Well, no. New poster here. If somebody has been gaslighted, they don't feel they can trust their gut any more. We - women - are taught to NOT trust our guts. To behave politely even if our gut is saying "oh, this doesn't feel right." We are taught not to make waves or be called a bittch. I've seen it here. And in some respects, that is safe - don't poke the bear and the bear won't kill you. But it also means women stay in elevators when they shouldn't. They get in cars they shouldn't. They are polite instead of rude to avoid "hurting his feelings" because you don't know what a man will do when you hurt his feelings.

Unlike a reasonable person (woman) a man won't just go have a good cry, some drinks with a friend, and maybe write in his diary. He might actually go get a gun and turn on her because she disrespected him.

And so, a woman is living with somebody who has been her trusted partner and he is saying he loves her and that he's at work, and that everything is fine - her mind has been trained to not trust her feelings as well. She's Fcked. She doesn't even know how to listen to her spidey senses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once you're that far gone, you won't believe even the most obvious "proof". You either respect yourself enough to leave or you don't.

By all means, keep arguing with the lived experience of women on this thread. It’s a good look.

- Another women who pulled the plug the day after I found the proof

You're arguing with someone who simply did the work on herself instead of demanding "proof" from a suspected cheat. so, i mean, do that, if it makes you feel better about your wasted time or whatever, but you don't have the high ground you seem to think you do.

Who on earth is looking for “high ground” here? This isn’t a competition of who left a horrible relationship best. Some people (many, myself included), do best with objective evidence that spurs action. Ultimately, leaving a cheater is the goal. We all need different things to make that happen. Claiming superiority because you “did the work” suggests you have more work to do. Geez.

You need to yell at the previous PP who started the "keep arguing with the lived experience of women on this thread" crap, negating my own, which is what prompted me to clap back. They're the one who came in hot like there was One True Way™ and they'd found it.

Follow the thread before you go making comments like this, or admit you just like stirring the pot. That's not about my lack of healing...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leaving is hard, even in the case of severe abuse and serial infidelity. It's even harder when you're married to a gaslighter, and cheating and gaslighting go hand in hand. You find yourself questioning reality and need a lot of evidence and support to leave.

No you don't need evidence. Most women just don't to believe it's actually happening to them. It's their worst nightmare. They know it has happened to other women.

Frankly I wish women just didn't stay married to unfaithful men. If my wife cheats I am out..I am not going to waste my time and energy on therapy to understand why she cheated. There are countless men she can start her life over with. She didn't deserve a chance to explain/justify herself to the man she married. A divorce will set her free and life will be amazing for her.

You need evidence when the person cheating on you is also gaslighting you so much that you lose confidence in your judgment and discernment. You need hard evidence to know what is real. You get it for yourself. Just listen to all the women who have reported some version of this here.

Once you're that far gone, you won't believe even the most obvious "proof". You either respect yourself enough to leave or you don't.

Well, no. New poster here. If somebody has been gaslighted, they don't feel they can trust their gut any more. We - women - are taught to NOT trust our guts. To behave politely even if our gut is saying "oh, this doesn't feel right." We are taught not to make waves or be called a bittch. I've seen it here. And in some respects, that is safe - don't poke the bear and the bear won't kill you. But it also means women stay in elevators when they shouldn't. They get in cars they shouldn't. They are polite instead of rude to avoid "hurting his feelings" because you don't know what a man will do when you hurt his feelings.

Unlike a reasonable person (woman) a man won't just go have a good cry, some drinks with a friend, and maybe write in his diary. He might actually go get a gun and turn on her because she disrespected him.

And so, a woman is living with somebody who has been her trusted partner and he is saying he loves her and that he's at work, and that everything is fine - her mind has been trained to not trust her feelings as well. She's Fcked. She doesn't even know how to listen to her spidey senses.

Finding "proof" doesn't fix any of this. Therapy does.

[Anonymous]

it's tough to trust my own perceptions and judgement

A lying spouse shakes your whole world. You need *objective* information or you will doubt your own sanity.

[Anonymous]

Because people have lost their way spiritually. Look at our culture. They're empty vessels, lost souls, or actually soulless for real. Mindlessly consuming, without caring or thinking These people walk among us. Empty eyes, because there is no there in there. They don't build, they destroy. We've all known people like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Try to imagine: one day you suddenly feel something is wrong. You aren't sure what. You've been married 15 years and have three children and completely intertwined finances. You ask what's going on and he's evasive or his answers don't make sense.

Would your first move honestly be to go to a divorce lawyer and file for divorce, or would your first move be to try to figure out what's happening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because people have lost their way spiritually. Look at our culture. They're empty vessels, lost souls, or actually soulless for real. Mindlessly consuming, without caring or thinking These people walk among us. Empty eyes, because there is no there in there. They don't build, they destroy. We've all known people like this.

Eww. The victimese again.

Bro, we've all BEEN people like this, if we're honest. This isn't some sort of "only soulless people do bad things" crap. Anyone can make a stupid choice, or a whole cascade of stupid choices.

Don't get so high and mighty that you forget it could just as easily be you, and probably has. We're all flawed. There but for the grace...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Try to imagine: one day you suddenly feel something is wrong. You aren't sure what. You've been married 15 years and have three children and completely intertwined finances. You ask what's going on and he's evasive or his answers don't make sense.

Would your first move honestly be to go to a divorce lawyer and file for divorce, or would your first move be to try to figure out what's happening?

My first move, if I was smart, would be to a therapist to get help with the problem I noticed: my sense that something's wrong, my anxiety about the relationship, etc. If the issue is that I no longer trust my partner, my smartest self would simply validate that and then yes, divorce.

A LOT of people waste a lot of time, energy and resources "trying to figure it out". You may never figure it out, and you probably won't ever know the whole truth until/unless your partner wants to divulge it. What you can know, definitively, is that you no longer trust your partner, and that's enough to base a decision on.

Someone upthread posted about how women don't trust themselves, their intuition, etc. This is how you heal it. You stop requiring outside proof and learn to accept your own wisdom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Try to imagine: one day you suddenly feel something is wrong. You aren't sure what. You've been married 15 years and have three children and completely intertwined finances. You ask what's going on and he's evasive or his answers don't make sense.

Would your first move honestly be to go to a divorce lawyer and file for divorce, or would your first move be to try to figure out what's happening?

My first move, if I was smart, would be to a therapist to get help with the problem I noticed: my sense that something's wrong, my anxiety about the relationship, etc. If the issue is that I no longer trust my partner, my smartest self would simply validate that and then yes, divorce.

A LOT of people waste a lot of time, energy and resources "trying to figure it out". You may never figure it out, and you probably won't ever know the whole truth until/unless your partner wants to divulge it. What you can know, definitively, is that you no longer trust your partner, and that's enough to base a decision on.

Someone upthread posted about how women don't trust themselves, their intuition, etc. This is how you heal it. You stop requiring outside proof and learn to accept your own wisdom.

Most of us are in therapy for the duration. It can take many avenues of support, and those differ by specific person and situation, to get through trauma. For me it included therapy, confiding in my mom and best friend, understanding the legal path out with my lawyer, and yes, finding proof to understand the siutation in it's entirety. If that looked different for you, I'm glad you also found something that worked for you.

My kids were very young and that gave me all sorts of additional considerations. Being the one to wave the flag of defeat on their family experience (even though it was not me who led us into that situation) was something I did not take lightly at all. I wanted to be able to face the day when my daughters are older and find out or ask the truth about what happened, that I could look them in the eyes and tell them I utilized all the information I had (including proof) to make the best decision of the shitty options I had.
Additonal considerations were:
-How long and deep are these lies running? Can I trust a pathological liar to parent half the time?
-Will my kids be safe with him?
-Will my kids be safe if the OW is in the picture?
-Are there other things he's lying about that I need to know? Turns out there was also at least one prostitute on a business trip situation, depleting of a significant finance account, substance abuse, among other smaller things. I am forever grateful to have found all this out because it helped me make informed decisions for my kids safety and my own well being and stability in the untangling process.

[Anonymous]

Finding proof allowed me to see the true dimensions of what I was dealing with. My exDH is a good liar and gaslit me hard and long. To this day he has never admitted the full scope of what I know nor apologized in any way. It was not just one affair, but many different types. He also had a secret drinking and substance abuse problem. I saw emails to his APs that were deeply manipulative of them and described me and our relationship in vastly different terms than he described to me. Snooping allowed me to figure out all of that and definitively cut off the relationship and maintain full physical custody of my kids and a better financial settlement than he initially offered.

I’m not sure why some PPs think that women who don’t immediately confront and end the relationship are low on self-esteem. I have enough self esteem that I wanted the truth. I knew I wasn’t getting it from him, and that I would have to take matters into my own hands to get the truth. Knowledge is power.

[Anonymous]

Because in order to properly break up w/someone maybe people feel like they should have actual proof vs. just an intuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Haven’t been in this situation but if kids are involved I assume they want confirmation before divorce is involved. I have a cousin who was not cheating and his wife was as convinced he was. She moved out but ultimately never found any evidence. I think it was a bluff to get him to confess. He was devastated and a year later she asked to get back together and he said no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Try to imagine: one day you suddenly feel something is wrong. You aren't sure what. You've been married 15 years and have three children and completely intertwined finances. You ask what's going on and he's evasive or his answers don't make sense.

Would your first move honestly be to go to a divorce lawyer and file for divorce, or would your first move be to try to figure out what's happening?

My first move, if I was smart, would be to a therapist to get help with the problem I noticed: my sense that something's wrong, my anxiety about the relationship, etc. If the issue is that I no longer trust my partner, my smartest self would simply validate that and then yes, divorce.

A LOT of people waste a lot of time, energy and resources "trying to figure it out". You may never figure it out, and you probably won't ever know the whole truth until/unless your partner wants to divulge it. What you can know, definitively, is that you no longer trust your partner, and that's enough to base a decision on.

Someone upthread posted about how women don't trust themselves, their intuition, etc. This is how you heal it. You stop requiring outside proof and learn to accept your own wisdom.

Neither my therapist nor my psychiatrist believed me when I came to them with my observations about my “anxiety” feelings and my husband’s sudden change in behavior. It took a couple sessions to convince them I wasn’t paranoid/delusional/off my meds. They both asked me what sort of proof I had.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing posts about keyboard loggers, voice activated recording, car tracking. If you don't trust your spouse why wouldn't you just divorce already? Why do you need "evidence" and how does that help you?

Haven’t been in this situation but if kids are involved I assume they want confirmation before divorce is involved. I have a cousin who was not cheating and his wife was as convinced he was. She moved out but ultimately never found any evidence. I think it was a bluff to get him to confess. He was devastated and a year later she asked to get back together and he said no.

Your poor cousin. I hate to be THAT poster but to be honest my first thought is that she was cheating and things with her AP didn’t work out.

[Anonymous]

Too many true crime showd