How to support friend who found out her partner is cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

I’m the PP who said it – it definitely wasn’t any kind of encouragement to stay. No way, no how. My friend would have put a hit on him if she could and is my day to day biggest champion, propping me up when I don’t think I can take one more thing because we are still in the divorce process and he’s a total POS. It was more of a “I’m your friend and will support you no matter what, even though I wish he would just die already.” Maybe that’s a more universal way to put it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My close friend just learned that her partner is cheating on her. She is very sad, not wanting to get out of bed, etc. How do I support her without overstepping and being in the way? I am the only person she has told about it. She hasn’t made any decisions yet on next steps.

Partner? If they're not engaged or married, they're free agents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do NOT talk about it to anyone else, not even under the guise of needing support for how to help her. No one.

Thank you. I certainly won’t share with anyone as my friend isn’t a huge sharer anyway so I know how important it is to keep this to myself.

She tends to withdraw and deal with things alone, so I am hesitant on what to do and when. This thread has been helpful!

NP. As someone who also withdraws when grieving and yet still doesn't want to feel alone, DO check in with her regularly, but DON'T ask "how are you?" I hated being asked that every day, because the answer was always "awful" but I didn't feel like I was allowed to say that day after day. The pressure to be positive or not burden others is so engrained! Just say "I'm thinking about you" or "I'm here if you want to talk" and then give her grace if she doesn't always respond. ( You sound like a good friend. <3 )

OP here. I like this…thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

I’m the PP who said it – it definitely wasn’t any kind of encouragement to stay. No way, no how. My friend would have put a hit on him if she could and is my day to day biggest champion, propping me up when I don’t think I can take one more thing because we are still in the divorce process and he’s a total POS. It was more of a “I’m your friend and will support you no matter what, even though I wish he would just die already.” Maybe that’s a more universal way to put it.

OP here. I get this!! I certainly won’t encourage her to stay in a situation that may not be best for her, but I want her to know that I would judge what she believes to be best for her and her family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who was cheated on, my advice is simply to listen, listen, listen. Encourage her to call or text anytime. Even if you grow tired of hearing the same story, the same concerns, I cannot tell you how important it is for her to have a good friend who is listening. And check in. Just a text message every couple of days can really help. No pressure for her to reply, but just knowing somebody is thinking of her. Like me, she may be so incredibly hurt and also embarrassed that she does not want to tell more than one or a few people. You may be the life ring she needs right now.

Thank you. I am sorry that this happened to you as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

I’m the PP who said it – it definitely wasn’t any kind of encouragement to stay. No way, no how. My friend would have put a hit on him if she could and is my day to day biggest champion, propping me up when I don’t think I can take one more thing because we are still in the divorce process and he’s a total POS. It was more of a “I’m your friend and will support you no matter what, even though I wish he would just die already.” Maybe that’s a more universal way to put it.

OP here. I get this!! I certainly won’t encourage her to stay in a situation that may not be best for her, but I want her to know that I would judge what she believes to be best for her and her family.

Would never**

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've gotten a lot of good advice on here, OP. And you sound like a great friend.

I'll echo the part about remaining judgment free. I have a friend who left her husband (who I don't like) and then went back to him. I never offered my opinion on her leaving him (i.e. I never said I was so glad, he's a loser, etc.) and I'm glad I didn't since they're back together now. I just said I'm here for you and I support you in whatever you need and I won't judge whatever decisions you make because you never know what you'd do until you're in a situation so I don't get an opinion on this. When they got back together, I was one of the few friends she turned to because I hadn't bad-mouthed him when she left.

+1. For a friend I was supporting, we also came up with codes to use in texts if needed to varying degrees. It helped a few times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

I think a lot of structures in medicine are very sexist. We are not that far away from the time when marital rape was legal. I don't think attitudes have evolved much. People still think that men are entitled to do what they want sexually, and women have to accept it. I personally view what my husband (at the time) did to me as a form of repeated non-consensual sex. He knew I bargained for monogamy. He knew he was not monogamous. He lied to me continually while still having sex with me, even though he knew that if I knew he was cheating that I would not have non-monogamous sex with him. I don't think society yet accepts that infidelity is a form of non-consensual sex and a kind of intimate partner abuse.

Professionals who are couples therapists (which I do not recommend for infidelity) are trying to preserve the marriage, not counseling in the best interest of the victim spouse.

In addition, many therapists stay very neutral -- never recommending anything, never validating abuse, just "hmm, what do you think?"

I also think that there is an economic aspect -- many people don't think the wife can support the kids without the husband, but do realize that the courts will not really order adequate child support, so people are reluctant to encourage women to leave. (I was very fortunate that I had the independent financial resources to leave.)

Many people think the wife should sacrifice any self-interest in favor of creating a perfect environment for the kids. Personally, I think the household I created solo is much healthier than the one with the cheater when we were together and after we split, but I recognize that many people think that divorce is a failure and hurts the kids in all scenarios.

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

I think a lot of structures in medicine are very sexist. We are not that far away from the time when marital rape was legal. I don't think attitudes have evolved much. People still think that men are entitled to do what they want sexually, and women have to accept it. I personally view what my husband (at the time) did to me as a form of repeated non-consensual sex. He knew I bargained for monogamy. He knew he was not monogamous. He lied to me continually while still having sex with me, even though he knew that if I knew he was cheating that I would not have non-monogamous sex with him. I don't think society yet accepts that infidelity is a form of non-consensual sex and a kind of intimate partner abuse.

Professionals who are couples therapists (which I do not recommend for infidelity) are trying to preserve the marriage, not counseling in the best interest of the victim spouse.

In addition, many therapists stay very neutral -- never recommending anything, never validating abuse, just "hmm, what do you think?"

I also think that there is an economic aspect -- many people don't think the wife can support the kids without the husband, but do realize that the courts will not really order adequate child support, so people are reluctant to encourage women to leave. (I was very fortunate that I had the independent financial resources to leave.)

Many people think the wife should sacrifice any self-interest in favor of creating a perfect environment for the kids. Personally, I think the household I created solo is much healthier than the one with the cheater when we were together and after we split, but I recognize that many people think that divorce is a failure and hurts the kids in all scenarios.

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

I felt exactly the same !

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

AMEN AMEN AMEN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

I think a lot of structures in medicine are very sexist. We are not that far away from the time when marital rape was legal. I don't think attitudes have evolved much. People still think that men are entitled to do what they want sexually, and women have to accept it. I personally view what my husband (at the time) did to me as a form of repeated non-consensual sex. He knew I bargained for monogamy. He knew he was not monogamous. He lied to me continually while still having sex with me, even though he knew that if I knew he was cheating that I would not have non-monogamous sex with him. I don't think society yet accepts that infidelity is a form of non-consensual sex and a kind of intimate partner abuse.

Professionals who are couples therapists (which I do not recommend for infidelity) are trying to preserve the marriage, not counseling in the best interest of the victim spouse.

In addition, many therapists stay very neutral -- never recommending anything, never validating abuse, just "hmm, what do you think?"

I also think that there is an economic aspect -- many people don't think the wife can support the kids without the husband, but do realize that the courts will not really order adequate child support, so people are reluctant to encourage women to leave. (I was very fortunate that I had the independent financial resources to leave.)

Many people think the wife should sacrifice any self-interest in favor of creating a perfect environment for the kids. Personally, I think the household I created solo is much healthier than the one with the cheater when we were together and after we split, but I recognize that many people think that divorce is a failure and hurts the kids in all scenarios.

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

I don't know why your post disappeared when I responded but ALL of this AND especially your last sentence. AMEN.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I mean, I guess thanks for your reading of the situation? I'm the PP above and I don't think I'd stay with a cheater or encourage anyone else to do so but I wasn't offended by what the PP said. You chose to be so. The point is to be supportive of your friend, no matter what they choose. You sound like you'd push them to leave, which is just as bad as someone "low-key" suggesting that they should stay. So maybe check yourself as well.