How to support friend who found out her partner is cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

I think a lot of structures in medicine are very sexist. We are not that far away from the time when marital rape was legal. I don't think attitudes have evolved much. People still think that men are entitled to do what they want sexually, and women have to accept it. I personally view what my husband (at the time) did to me as a form of repeated non-consensual sex. He knew I bargained for monogamy. He knew he was not monogamous. He lied to me continually while still having sex with me, even though he knew that if I knew he was cheating that I would not have non-monogamous sex with him. I don't think society yet accepts that infidelity is a form of non-consensual sex and a kind of intimate partner abuse.

Professionals who are couples therapists (which I do not recommend for infidelity) are trying to preserve the marriage, not counseling in the best interest of the victim spouse.

In addition, many therapists stay very neutral -- never recommending anything, never validating abuse, just "hmm, what do you think?"

I also think that there is an economic aspect -- many people don't think the wife can support the kids without the husband, but do realize that the courts will not really order adequate child support, so people are reluctant to encourage women to leave. (I was very fortunate that I had the independent financial resources to leave.)

Many people think the wife should sacrifice any self-interest in favor of creating a perfect environment for the kids. Personally, I think the household I created solo is much healthier than the one with the cheater when we were together and after we split, but I recognize that many people think that divorce is a failure and hurts the kids in all scenarios.

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

So you basically made my point, which is that you have an agenda. Most of us just want to be there for our friends regardless of what they decide to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I’m sorry you got those messages. Why do people say this, do you think? Even professionals?

I think a lot of structures in medicine are very sexist. We are not that far away from the time when marital rape was legal. I don't think attitudes have evolved much. People still think that men are entitled to do what they want sexually, and women have to accept it. I personally view what my husband (at the time) did to me as a form of repeated non-consensual sex. He knew I bargained for monogamy. He knew he was not monogamous. He lied to me continually while still having sex with me, even though he knew that if I knew he was cheating that I would not have non-monogamous sex with him. I don't think society yet accepts that infidelity is a form of non-consensual sex and a kind of intimate partner abuse.

Professionals who are couples therapists (which I do not recommend for infidelity) are trying to preserve the marriage, not counseling in the best interest of the victim spouse.

In addition, many therapists stay very neutral -- never recommending anything, never validating abuse, just "hmm, what do you think?"

I also think that there is an economic aspect -- many people don't think the wife can support the kids without the husband, but do realize that the courts will not really order adequate child support, so people are reluctant to encourage women to leave. (I was very fortunate that I had the independent financial resources to leave.)

Many people think the wife should sacrifice any self-interest in favor of creating a perfect environment for the kids. Personally, I think the household I created solo is much healthier than the one with the cheater when we were together and after we split, but I recognize that many people think that divorce is a failure and hurts the kids in all scenarios.

Women who leave demonstrate publicly that they are in control of their sexuality, and that is very threatening to society.

So you basically made my point, which is that you have an agenda. Most of us just want to be there for our friends regardless of what they decide to do.

What is my "agenda"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all! They are not married but do have children. I’ll be sure not to offer advice and just be a good listener. I certainly would never badmouth her partner, but I do tend to share my opinion on things so I will be extra mindful of that. Love the idea of providing distractions for her as appropriate.

To the PP who said she may distance herself from me if she decides to stay, I will keep that in mind. I hope she knows that I would never judge her for staying or leaving, but it is good to be aware of any possible outcome. I just want to support her as best as I can in this season!

One of the kindest things a good friend said to me was “If you ever decide it’s in your best interest to forgive him, I will never judge you for it.” It’s worth saying some version of that out loud for her to hear.

You’re a good friend. She’s lucky to have you.

OP here. This is fantastic advice. Thank you. I will absolutely say this out loud to her when it’s the right time. Thank you, thank you!

Ick. I would not have wanted a friend to say that to me - it's low key sending the message that staying and forgiving is the right thing to do. My ex's cheating was bananas - so bananas that I couldn't even tell my friends all of it. If she'd said this to me, I would have felt gross - pushed into staying with someone who was slimy. Ick. Ick. Ick. I'm so grateful that my friends and family supported my ending the relationship.

What? No it's not. You clearly have some kind of trauma response.

I don't think I'd stay with a cheating spouse but I'd support a friend who did because it's not my decision what they do with their life and all I care about is their happiness.

Well, having gone through a relationship with a serial cheater who lied (enormous, complicated lies over more than a year), yes, I did experience complex post-traumatic stress. But, my “ick” is not a trauma response. It is the lived experience of someone who knows that many friends, family, professional therapists and popular resources actually encourage the woman to stay.

What we think is in the message we are sending is not always how that message will be received. There is a big difference, IMO, as the person who has been on the receiving end of support, between saying. “I will support you whatever you choose to do.” And “if you want to stay, I will support you.” It may sound the same to you, but as the recipient, It doesn’t come across that way.

Women in these situations deserve to know first and foremost 1) you did not cause the cheating 2) you have no obligation to stay with someone who cheated 3) you are not responsible for fixing the cheater or helping him to figure out why he/she cheated and 4) no shame accrues to you about the cheating (I.e. all shame redounds to the cheater).

I mean, I guess thanks for your reading of the situation? I'm the PP above and I don't think I'd stay with a cheater or encourage anyone else to do so but I wasn't offended by what the PP said. You chose to be so. The point is to be supportive of your friend, no matter what they choose. You sound like you'd push them to leave, which is just as bad as someone "low-key" suggesting that they should stay. So maybe check yourself as well.

100% nothing I said is about pushing someone to leave. I stayed with my cheating husband for 2.5 years, for a variety of reasons - shock, hoping that this would be a lesson for him and that he would evolve, being told lies that were more palatable to staying, needing to finish grad school so I could support myself, being 6 months pregnant at the time I found out about cheating so wanting to deliver the baby and recover before deciding what to do, wanting to take a fantastic internship so that I could be economically independent whether I stayed or left, etc. There are many reasons women stay. But, again, telling a woman, "If you decide it's in your best interests to stay" was quite different to me than "I will support you whatever you choose to do".

I'm also not "choosing to be offended," (that's your characterization of me), I'm just pointing out that, "if you decide it's in your best interests to stay, I will support you," isn't the neutral statement you think it is.