Why are people not freaking out about Schedule F here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you’re missing is: this isn’t happening. Biden is going to be re-elected by a landslide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many Feds are extremely naive.

Yes, if you have a union and you’re doing a fairly boring job, you’ll probably be fine. You could probably be covered under a lawsuit or protected by your higher ups.

But that’s unlikely. If you have a job that is at all public-facing or politically interesting or touches on policy, you are screwed. It is very easy for them to make your life miserable, hire a political into your job without actually firing you… you’ll just find yourself completely sidelined with nothing to do and everyone whispering behind your back that you’re incompetent or a traitor. Then you’ll find a new job because they’ve basically forced you out… and they win without facing a lawsuit or really any reprocussions at all.

This is exactly what happened to me during the last Trump admin.

I saw exactly this happen at my agency under Trump.

I’m not naive enough to think it can’t happen to me. But any job has risks. Private sector companies have layoffs, nonprofits lose funding. All in all, fed gov remains relatively safe, even with this threat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose Trump wins. Reclassifying employees likely will need to go through the APA rulemaking process to undo protections being imposed by Biden. That will take several months. Then it will be tied up in litigation for a couple years. By that point--mid 2027 or so--Trump will have a hard time filling any vacancies that he is able to create.

IMO Trump's primary win is probably a good thing. DeSantis or Haley would probably be far more effective at carrying out Schedule F reclassification than Trump, who is generally incompetent and surrounds himself with morons like Jenna Ellis.

What you are not understanding is that they already have the details in place. There’s a whole team looking into all of the possible road blocks and are devising ways around them. They have also started a database of people who are ready to take these jobs, apparently, it has 20,000 names in it. These are people who have applied, with questions like “who is your political hero?” You can guess what answer gets you on the list.

This is serious and scary stuff and you should not take this lightly.

Why does anyone think Trump will be more effective at accomplishing his goals the second time in office? He’s a buffoon. Previously he could find competent attorneys like Bill Barr to work for him, but now? I’m not too worried by the people surrounding him.

Last time nobody thought he would win: they weren't ready to do anything. But by now all the anti government types have attached themselves to him as a way to carry out their agendas (Trump himself does not necessarily care) and unfortunately a lot of those people are competent or at least driven. They want a hobbled ineffective government, so the idea of mass vacancies or filling the jobs with unqualified randoms does not bother them at all.
I am also not confident we'd all remain employed while this was litigated: I think they'd lock people out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you’re missing is: this isn’t happening. Biden is going to be re-elected by a landslide.

The polls suggest otherwise

The same polls that predicted the red wave in 2022?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you’re missing is: this isn’t happening. Biden is going to be re-elected by a landslide.

The polls suggest otherwise

The same polls that predicted the red wave in 2022?

The polls were pretty accurate about the overall vote shift. but it was scattered throughout many districts so it did not shift as many seats. What is the evidence that Biden will win? I hope you are right but I just don’t see it. “Don’t believe the polls” doesn’t give me too much hope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suppose Trump wins. Reclassifying employees likely will need to go through the APA rulemaking process to undo protections being imposed by Biden. That will take several months. Then it will be tied up in litigation for a couple years. By that point--mid 2027 or so--Trump will have a hard time filling any vacancies that he is able to create.

IMO Trump's primary win is probably a good thing. DeSantis or Haley would probably be far more effective at carrying out Schedule F reclassification than Trump, who is generally incompetent and surrounds himself with morons like Jenna Ellis.

What you are not understanding is that they already have the details in place. There’s a whole team looking into all of the possible road blocks and are devising ways around them. They have also started a database of people who are ready to take these jobs, apparently, it has 20,000 names in it. These are people who have applied, with questions like “who is your political hero?” You can guess what answer gets you on the list.

This is serious and scary stuff and you should not take this lightly.

Why does anyone think Trump will be more effective at accomplishing his goals the second time in office? He’s a buffoon. Previously he could find competent attorneys like Bill Barr to work for him, but now? I’m not too worried by the people surrounding him.

Last time nobody thought he would win: they weren't ready to do anything. But by now all the anti government types have attached themselves to him as a way to carry out their agendas (Trump himself does not necessarily care) and unfortunately a lot of those people are competent or at least driven. They want a hobbled ineffective government, so the idea of mass vacancies or filling the jobs with unqualified randoms does not bother them at all.
I am also not confident we'd all remain employed while this was litigated: I think they'd lock people out.

The lawsuit would be litigated in DC, where Biden appointed many judges and most of the Trump judges are normies. I’m pretty sure that most of the DC judges would issue a TRO to prevent that while it plays out in court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m 48 and a GS15 supervisor in a job that deals with the southwest border. I stressed about it all the time. But then I saw that there is rulemaking in place, and the rulemaking would likely be litigated and/or withdrawn and that will take at least a couple of months. And then I suppose it would take at least a couple of months for me to be fired. So basically, I’m counting on hitting 50 and my agency offering early retirement. I’ve never wanted to be 50 so badly. Me and my staff are freaking out about it though.

There are areas in the government that Trump would change more than others. Immigration is one of them. The chance that he might win is stopping me from applying for any immigration policy jobs or those that might be cut, curtailed, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert, but as a Fed, I feel like there would be lawsuits aplenty before the pen was dry on the HR actions and the whole thing would get suspended by a judge until they got sorted out or the whole thing is scrapped.

This, basically. And on the odd chance it went through there would be a vast wrongful firing lawsuit, probably with damages, and people would get their jobs back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert, but as a Fed, I feel like there would be lawsuits aplenty before the pen was dry on the HR actions and the whole thing would get suspended by a judge until they got sorted out or the whole thing is scrapped.

This, basically. And on the odd chance it went through there would be a vast wrongful firing lawsuit, probably with damages, and people would get their jobs back.

This. There would be hundreds if not thousands of lawsuits. Yes, some could end up before very Trumpy judges, but most will not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert, but as a Fed, I feel like there would be lawsuits aplenty before the pen was dry on the HR actions and the whole thing would get suspended by a judge until they got sorted out or the whole thing is scrapped.

This, basically. And on the odd chance it went through there would be a vast wrongful firing lawsuit, probably with damages, and people would get their jobs back.

This. There would be hundreds if not thousands of lawsuits. Yes, some could end up before very Trumpy judges, but most will not.

And even if they do, they'll be appealed, and injunctions will be issued, and by the time another court lifts the injunctions, another will reissue it, etc, etc. It will be like the vaccine mandate. In the end only a handful of VA employees who worked with patients got let go, not office drones.

[Anonymous]

My agency isn't particularly "political".

I came from private sector and have been a fed for several years now but, if need be, I can go back to private and most likely with higher pay due to my fed experience.

So no, I'm personally not freaking out at all.

If people are "freaking out", what do you want them to do about it? What is the point of this thread besides fear mongering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you’re missing is: this isn’t happening. Biden is going to be re-elected by a landslide.

Please do not forget to vote. Thinking so ething will happen does not always mean it will happen - remember Dewey vs Truman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because Trump will not win.

This is what everyone said in 2016. I agree it is extremely likely that Biden will win the popular vote by a decent margin. But the electoral vote will all come down to a few swing states where the margins will be much closer and for where there are already some worrying warning signs. For instance, does anyone really trust Michigan right now? I sure don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

That is straight up not true once you pass the probationary period an excepted service employee has full MSPB appeal rights.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/employee-relations/employee-rights-appeals/#url=Appeals