Why are people not freaking out about Schedule F here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

Yes

This is straight up false. (Assuming you mean excepted when you say "exempt", which isn't a thing outside of OT comp rules.) Excepted service employees who have passed their probationary/trial period have the EXACT same employment protections as everybody else.

[Anonymous]

Because freaking out today isn't helpful. And worrying about something that hasn't happened yet, that may or may not happen in the future is a waste of my present time and energy. Future me will be as competent as current me, and will be able to deal with it, if it happens, when it happens. I have an emergency fund that I will continue to maintain, which will give me flexibility in the future, if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

Yes

You're either stupid or trolling. This shit is so damn tiring.

[Anonymous]

I got through cancer. This will be nothing in comparison.

[Anonymous]

Wonder if the procurement 1102 folks will be affected? We are the ones that have to bring in the contracts filled with SMEs and other expert types regardless of party in power. My agency lives and dies by contracted expertise. The policy folks here have to navigate the archaic FAR, which I don’t expect some recently installed Heritage flunky to grasp in a matter of weeks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wonder if the procurement 1102 folks will be affected? We are the ones that have to bring in the contracts filled with SMEs and other expert types regardless of party in power. My agency lives and dies by contracted expertise. The policy folks here have to navigate the archaic FAR, which I don’t expect some recently installed Heritage flunky to grasp in a matter of weeks.

This is exactly why Schedule F will not happen on a large scale even if it survives legal challenges around the nation. Sure, replace SSA policy managers with 23 year MAGA ralliers and see even more chaos in claims and payments. Dismantle the FBI as many argue, and that is a huge win for organized crime and drug dealers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

That is straight up not true once you pass the probationary period an excepted service employee has full MSPB appeal rights.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/employee-relations/employee-rights-appeals/#url=Appeals

So if you’re already in the excepted service, and your position is converted to Schedule F (which, as I understand it, would be part of the excepted service), then wouldn’t you still have full MSPB appeal rights as a Schedule F employee if you already completed your two-year probationary period?

I’m genuinely asking here, because I don’t fully understand this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

That is straight up not true once you pass the probationary period an excepted service employee has full MSPB appeal rights.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/employee-relations/employee-rights-appeals/#url=Appeals

So if you’re already in the excepted service, and your position is converted to Schedule F (which, as I understand it, would be part of the excepted service), then wouldn’t you still have full MSPB appeal rights as a Schedule F employee if you already completed your two-year probationary period?

I’m genuinely asking here, because I don’t fully understand this.

Schedule F was more akin to Schedule C- which is for political appointments that typically change with the administration. It exempted from competitive hiring procedures AND firing protections. It was not like normal excepted service positions.

https://www.fedweek.com/issue-briefs/opm-lists-potential-impacts-of-a-future-schedule-f/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

That is straight up not true once you pass the probationary period an excepted service employee has full MSPB appeal rights.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/employee-relations/employee-rights-appeals/#url=Appeals

So if you’re already in the excepted service, and your position is converted to Schedule F (which, as I understand it, would be part of the excepted service), then wouldn’t you still have full MSPB appeal rights as a Schedule F employee if you already completed your two-year probationary period?

I’m genuinely asking here, because I don’t fully understand this.

No. The point of schedule F is to create a schedule that, like schedule C, has no MSPB rights or other protections. So schedule A folks (attorneys etc) who are moved into it on the pretext of being "policymakers" would lose their appeal rights and job protections.

And for those who say it would cause too much chaos, that is rather the point. The Trump administration delights in chaos. They already think government is ineffective, except that they think the "deep state" is terrifically effective at foiling new initiatives. So they will not particularly care if they truly make it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most feds on this board are in exempt positions anyway so Schdule F doesn’t change anything. It only means something if you are in a non-exempt position.

Can the exempt positions already be fired at will?

“Excepted Service” can be fired at will.

Separately, SES can be reassigned to any other SES job at the whim of the government, which sometimes gets used to encourage someone to retire or quit.

That is straight up not true once you pass the probationary period an excepted service employee has full MSPB appeal rights.

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/employee-relations/employee-rights-appeals/#url=Appeals

So if you’re already in the excepted service, and your position is converted to Schedule F (which, as I understand it, would be part of the excepted service), then wouldn’t you still have full MSPB appeal rights as a Schedule F employee if you already completed your two-year probationary period?

I’m genuinely asking here, because I don’t fully understand this.

No. The point of schedule F is to create a schedule that, like schedule C, has no MSPB rights or other protections. So schedule A folks (attorneys etc) who are moved into it on the pretext of being "policymakers" would lose their appeal rights and job protections.

And for those who say it would cause too much chaos, that is rather the point. The Trump administration delights in chaos. They already think government is ineffective, except that they think the "deep state" is terrifically effective at foiling new initiatives. So they will not particularly care if they truly make it that way.

Well, actually, when they make it that way, they will claim that it was always that way and they are being persecuted for being blamed for it. The lies never stop. And when caught in a lie, they just lie more.

[Anonymous]

I am hearing north of 250k employees could be converted to this new schedule. Not just policy makers, but admin types and more. Seems like this is a pretext for laying off hundreds of thousands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am hearing north of 250k employees could be converted to this new schedule. Not just policy makers, but admin types and more. Seems like this is a pretext for laying off hundreds of thousands.

Sounds like we’re all toast, so I’m not going to worry about it.

It’s like the drumming used by troops on the march - done to terrify you but they are still coming to kill you.

Eh.

[Anonymous]

Well that would be interesting for the dc real estate market.

[Anonymous]

I am in an office that I expect to be entirely Schedule F in a Trump administration. I am close to retirement, and all I really want is a settlement that will guarantee me full retirement benefits. So I suppose I hope they fire me and I can sue for that rather than having them make me so miserable I quit. Which could also happen—except I think we will all be gone before the end of January.

[Anonymous]

I would not at all be surprised if some think tank already has a database of current federal employees set to be placed into Schedule F. These Hillsdale types are salivating at the thought of a mass firing. Once converted over to F, I expect some sort of singular action with the stroke of a pen. My guess is the conversions would take place within the first three months of a Trump presidency. The mass firings would occur by June.