I think my child has a personality disorder and it’s getting worse

[Anonymous]

OP, the suicide attempt, the depression, the grandiosity (talking down to people, not thinking she has a problem) is classic bipolar also.

I'd highly recommend a therapist for you as you traverse this. If you don't get anywhere with first therapist for you try another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am struggling with how to interact with my DD, who turns 21 in a couple of months.

She has been in and out of therapy for years. She was briefly in a partial hospitalization program in HS for suicide ideation but actually refused to participate in individual therapy there or take the drugs that were prescribed. The only thing she seemed to enjoy about it was group — and she wanted to play therapist herself and counsel other kids because she really enjoys telling other people what to do.

Every conversation with her in recent years feels loaded. It’s like she’s always talking down to you, always needs to assert herself as the smartest person in the room, no matter what the topic. She isn’t well-liked by friends who know her on more than any superficial level, because she has no real close friends. Instead, she seems to have a lot of drama and conflict with people around her, often because she has this impulse to tell people off, especially when she feels aggrieved, which is often.

She just had a disappointment at college, probably related to her interpersonal skills, and has been really withdrawn. I can tell she is depressed and I am concerned about it. But it’s difficult to talk to her because she just thinks she’s perfect and everyone around her is an idiot, including me. Her mother was similar, which is one reason we finally divorced, and while she chose to live with me in MS and HS, the Deja vu of walking on eggshells while she is home is discombobulating.

Before she was 18, I have had therapists tell me she has anxiety and depression; I believe that, but, again, she refused to take the medication for it. Another wondered about bipolar 2 (which I believe her mother suffers from, although her mother took an SSRI for some period of time at least.) Another literally told me they didn’t know what was wrong with her but said something was definitely wrong, and then fired her (a therapist firing a patient makes me think of Borderline, although DD has experienced no abandonment in her life). In the few instances where I attended therapy sessions with her before she was 18, it appeared me to that she approached therapy the same way she approached school — be the teacher’s pet, try to get the therapist to “like” her and validate all of her feelings and grievances, real or imagined. I know now we should have found someone who did DBT but I didn’t realize that then.

She does have a therapist now at college — I get the bills. But I don’t know the therapist and HIPPA means the therapist won’t talk to me. I keep looking for a time to raise this gently with my DD — that she seems to complain a lot and be very short and condescending in the way she speaks to me and her sister (and her mother, from what I have heard). I tried that in June and got the silent treatment for five months…

Kind of at my wits end here. She doesn’t have to live this way. I would like to tell her to see a psychiatrist and discuss whether some medicines could help her live less painfully.

OP, the bolded are all examples of grandiosity which is a symptom of bipolar. I'm not familiar with borderline so can't speak to that.

I'm the PP who talked about the bipolar symptoms.

I'd recommend a couple of therapy sessions for you specifically to have the therapist help you with a script to talk to your daughter about considering meds.

No matter how gently you approach the topic with her, it may not go well.

It's telling that she would not take prescribed meds after the suicide ideation. I'd interpret that as another example of grandiosity in which she thought there is nothing wrong with her and she is smarter than the doctors.

Since your daughter is over 18 these situations can be very challenging and painful for parents to watch their offspring suffer.

It is legal in the US not to be medicated for mental illness. As painful as it is to watch sometimes all you can do is let your offspring live their life. I agree with one of the former posters to make sure you spend time with the other sibling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am struggling with how to interact with my DD, who turns 21 in a couple of months.

She has been in and out of therapy for years. She was briefly in a partial hospitalization program in HS for suicide ideation but actually refused to participate in individual therapy there or take the drugs that were prescribed. The only thing she seemed to enjoy about it was group — and she wanted to play therapist herself and counsel other kids because she really enjoys telling other people what to do.

Every conversation with her in recent years feels loaded. It’s like she’s always talking down to you, always needs to assert herself as the smartest person in the room, no matter what the topic. She isn’t well-liked by friends who know her on more than any superficial level, because she has no real close friends. Instead, she seems to have a lot of drama and conflict with people around her, often because she has this impulse to tell people off, especially when she feels aggrieved, which is often.

She just had a disappointment at college, probably related to her interpersonal skills, and has been really withdrawn. I can tell she is depressed and I am concerned about it. But it’s difficult to talk to her because she just thinks she’s perfect and everyone around her is an idiot, including me. Her mother was similar, which is one reason we finally divorced, and while she chose to live with me in MS and HS, the Deja vu of walking on eggshells while she is home is discombobulating.

Before she was 18, I have had therapists tell me she has anxiety and depression; I believe that, but, again, she refused to take the medication for it. Another wondered about bipolar 2 (which I believe her mother suffers from, although her mother took an SSRI for some period of time at least.) Another literally told me they didn’t know what was wrong with her but said something was definitely wrong, and then fired her (a therapist firing a patient makes me think of Borderline, although DD has experienced no abandonment in her life). In the few instances where I attended therapy sessions with her before she was 18, it appeared me to that she approached therapy the same way she approached school — be the teacher’s pet, try to get the therapist to “like” her and validate all of her feelings and grievances, real or imagined. I know now we should have found someone who did DBT but I didn’t realize that then.

She does have a therapist now at college — I get the bills. But I don’t know the therapist and HIPPA means the therapist won’t talk to me. I keep looking for a time to raise this gently with my DD — that she seems to complain a lot and be very short and condescending in the way she speaks to me and her sister (and her mother, from what I have heard). I tried that in June and got the silent treatment for five months…

Kind of at my wits end here. She doesn’t have to live this way. I would like to tell her to see a psychiatrist and discuss whether some medicines could help her live less painfully.

My child did terrible with DBT. I don't know why. Like yours the therapists don't share how things go so you are left wondering why there is no progress. DH also had bipolar and autistic traits anxiety depression and adhd. I think this type of protective thinking happens a lot in this type of personality disorder. No answers sorry. I think there are only a few therapists willing to not just take money for people to validate feelings. Life coaches seem a bit better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop being so accommodating. Establish strict rules and boundaries. Make her do chores. She needs structure.
So she gets mad. Let her be mad. Actions need to have consequences.
Stop smiling and nodding. That is the path of least resistance leading nowhere.
Do you have any bargaining chips to get her to the psychiatrist?

Disagree with this poster. The smiling and nodding is okay when you are dealing with mental illness in someone.

OP here. I just recognize some of the comments as baiting. I'm not going to engage. If she thinks I should go out out and clear brush off the shed, I'll just smile and say good idea and move on. If she points out cat vomit on the rug, I just say thank you for pointing it out and clean it up.

It's sometimes hard to tell where a teen/young adult's behavior ends and mental illness behavior begins. I mean, most teens I know wouldn't stop to clean up cat vomit if they came across it. Whether or not they'd point it out to a parent like some sort of complaint/accusation that the house is disgusting is another question. THAT'S the behavior that's concerning to me.

And to those saying I'm harping on her negative attributes, I'm only doing that to illustrate what I'm dealing with. She's also a brilliant, charming, articulate soul who's a fantastic writer who is extremely active in activities at school. It's just I worry because I see many of the same patterns she exhibited when younger: A wide, but thin network of friends she seems to lose if anything moves past superficial interaction. A tendency to text entire paragraphs to people excoriating them for slights/behaviors she doesn't like, or if they don't do what she wants them to do (she has sent these to me, her mother and her sister through the years). High conflict within organizations she's joined (marching band, sorority, school newspaper). Recently we took a walk and she asked about her younger cousins, who I had just visited. I made a remark that one of them was brilliant, probably the smartest in the entire extended family and she took actual, legit offense at that.

I guess I"ll seek out a counselor for myself. My instinct here is to not take the bait when it's offered (although sometimes if I'm tired and I feel attacked I'll give in).

My other daughter doesn't exhibit these behaviors. But she also can only take her sister in small doses.

Thankfully they're at different colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the suicide attempt, the depression, the grandiosity (talking down to people, not thinking she has a problem) is classic bipolar also.

I'd highly recommend a therapist for you as you traverse this. If you don't get anywhere with first therapist for you try another.

I want to be clear: She didn't attempt suicide. She just made comments about how she wished she were dead.

Honestly, I think she has too much ego to make attempt.

[Anonymous]

NAMI family to family course for you, OP.

2 additional resources by 2 Harvard trained psychiatrists, for some can make a big difference

https://www.amazon.com/Brain-Energy-Revolutionary-Understanding-Health/dp/1637741588

https://www.amazon.com/Change-Your-Diet-Mind-Powerful/dp/1538739070 (out in January)

Both Dr. Palmer and Dr. Ede are active on social media, X, IG and do podcast interviews, so you can get a sense. Making these types of changes really helped stabilize a bipolar relative, there was buy in.

It is so hard, get yourself and the sib support, OP, from people with experience with mental illness. A "sad because your dog died" therapist is not going to be of sufficient help. DBT parent training can be very useful and can also give a bit of a sense of being regulated and in control of yourself amidst the chaos.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't matter what's the diagnosis, its a mental health issue. Your kid is suffering emotionally and its effecting her current familial and social bonds and her future as well.

Its eating you up, thinking you or her mom are responsible, feeling rejected and disrespected, not knowing how to help.

First of all, you yourself need therapy to learn how to help yourself and how to handle interactions with her with love and tact. Think of her as a tantrum throwing toddler who doesn't know how to handle her emotions. She needs tender care.

If there is a person in her life, an aunt, uncle, grandma, cousin or coach or anyone who can talk to her in a non preachy way. May be they can convince her to see a competent psychiatrist not rely on random therapists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should take a DBT class for parents or join a DBT support group for family members. A lot of what they teach is how to deal with a family member with a personality disorder in a way that helps them rather than making them worse.

Thanks, I didn’t know this was a thing…

Insteppc.com

[Anonymous]

There is no cure for a personality disorder. They will always be the victim and therapy won't help. You maintain a relationship by keeping your distance. Her dumpster fire of a life isn't your problem.

[Anonymous]

You should take a DBT class for parents or join a DBT support group for family members. A lot of what they teach is how to deal with a family member with a personality disorder in a way that helps them rather than making them worse.

I came here to say this. You would benefit from DBT, and I think your DD would REALLY benefit if she would engage and buy-in. It can be life changing, if people work the program. It was developed by a woman with borderline personality disorder to treat herself, and I think you describe some borderline traits in your daughter (unstable interpersonal relationships,

impulsive, drama, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"DD has experienced no abandonment in her life ..."

"Her mother was similar, which is one reason we finally divorced, and while she chose to live with me in MS and HS, the Deja vu of walking on eggshells "

I think you are interpreting abandonment too narrowly, and I'm not just referring to the divorce.

One hundred percent. This kid experienced capital-T Trauma and it is not mysterious that she is having this kind of struggle.

That said, borderline personality is not *caused* by abandonment. People with borderline personality disorder are highly sensitized to abandonment, and they often perceive it where it isn’t intended and/or where others would not. But this only makes your comment more of a non sequitur, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no cure for a personality disorder. They will always be the victim and therapy won't help. You maintain a relationship by keeping your distance. Her dumpster fire of a life isn't your problem.

+100

As painful as it is, OP, you need to distance yourself from your child ASAP. I know it’s difficult — but it’s necessary to keep your own peace.

-BTDT (my oldest has both BPD and NPD)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"DD has experienced no abandonment in her life ..."

"Her mother was similar, which is one reason we finally divorced, and while she chose to live with me in MS and HS, the Deja vu of walking on eggshells "

I think you are interpreting abandonment too narrowly, and I'm not just referring to the divorce.

One hundred percent. This kid experienced capital-T Trauma and it is not mysterious that she is having this kind of struggle.

That said, borderline personality is not *caused* by abandonment. People with borderline personality disorder are highly sensitized to abandonment, and they often perceive it where it isn’t intended and/or where others would not. But this only makes your comment more of a non sequitur, OP.

No. You are totally wrong. Tons of people have divorced parents. Most of them don’t end up with personality disorders.

[Anonymous]

OP, my SIL has borderline personality disorder and has been hospitalized many times. She’s in her 50s now, but when she was younger she churned through friends and acquaintances until there was literally no one left. My DH and I have dealt with numerous legal issues because of her and are no-contact. She becomes more volatile as the years go on.

But I say that only to give you some background and credibility for what I’ll say next: SIL has had a fairly successful career as an adult. I think what has helped her success was that she was drawn to a field that requires mostly short-term contracts, is very creative and in which being mercurial/flighty/erratic is seen as a sign of one’s creativity. It is also mostly work-product driven vs. relationship-driven, so as long as her clients’ contracts are fulfilled, she gets paid.

I hope you can get your DD to a place where she isn’t a danger to herself, because there is more room in the world than you would think for people with personality disorders. I do think my SIL would have turned out differently if adults had actively helped her more in her late tweens and 20s versus just enabling/mollifying her to keep her from blowing up at them.

[Anonymous]

What is her major in college? Fortunately she has 5 more years on your medical insurance and I would use this time to try and effect change. Get therapy to learn what ultimatums are reasonable in an effort to get her psychiatric help. Has she ever had a job?