husband as "junior partner" in childrearing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Entirely situation-dependent. If a wife is criticizing her husband for doing things a little differently, then yes, that's obnoxious and I could see him just not trying and deferring to her in everything because it's not worth the hassle.

But what I see often is that men do things poorly, with no preparation and minimal effort, their wife justifiably criticizes them because of a bad outcome (kids who didn't get fed, missed class, late to school, not properly dressed for weather or event, kids who are melting down because hungry/tired/cold, etc.) and he throws up his hands and says "why even try if you are just going to criticize what I do!" I can't tell if it's just an instinctual defensiveness to being correctly criticized for doing something poorly, or if the whole thing is feigned incompetence specifically to get out of doing things in the future. Maybe a little of both.

I don't criticize my DH's parenting unless there's a bad outcome. Like if he does something totally the opposite of how I'd do it but (1) it gets done, (2) the kids get what they need, and (3) I am not forced to jump in at the last minute to help make it happen, then I don't really care. But when I do criticize, it's because something didn't happen, the kids are a mess, or I've had to drop something at work or get out of bed or interrupt a social commitment in order to help him get it done. And I'm justified. If "his way" means the kids are screaming and crying or I have to leave work an hour early to fix something, then his way sucks. And this goes the other way, too, by the way. If I screw something up enough that it impacts the kids or him, then he is welcome to weigh in on how to do it better.

Exactly. There’s a difference between “you dressed Larlo and his shirt doesn’t match his shorts” and “you dressed Larlo in a t shirt and no jacket when it was 50 degrees outside”

How about “you let Larlo wear the same clothes 5 days in a row and he stinks” (actual example from my life that just happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

It really sucks to be in one of those marriages. Not only do you have to do most of the work yourself and fix your DH's mistakes, without wounding his fragile little ego, you get blamed for his poor performance and accused of being overly critical when you try to get him to uphold his obligations and be a diligent parent. I'd rather be single.

You need to look up the difference between being right and righteous. Read and learn and become a better person. God help anybody that has to live with you.

My husband lives with me, and we get along very well because he is not a junior partner beta male who is constantly trying to weasel out of doing any work and whining about his feelings. I'd rather be single than with a "junior partner" man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Try to understand that some ways are better than others. My way is not the only way, but half-assing and procrastinating and dumping the consequences on others is not acceptable.

You are wrong but it will takes years for you to get to that conclusion if you’re ever wise enough to arrive there.

How is she wrong? If I let DH handle summer plans he would wait until June and book one random week somewhere. Then expect me to cover the rest of the summer because he “has to work in the office now.”

Example: in 2 weeks DH will have to start going into the office 4 days/week. Has he said a SINGLE word to me about how to arrange school pickup/after school? No, he has not. Will also just randomly announce he is entirely leaving town without asking about my schedule.

Men don’t see themselves as “junior partners” in the family, what a joke. They see themselves as entirely independent and with zero responsibility except when they decide they want it. It’s the mom/wife who is the junior partner. Always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

It really sucks to be in one of those marriages. Not only do you have to do most of the work yourself and fix your DH's mistakes, without wounding his fragile little ego, you get blamed for his poor performance and accused of being overly critical when you try to get him to uphold his obligations and be a diligent parent. I'd rather be single.

You need to look up the difference between being right and righteous. Read and learn and become a better person. God help anybody that has to live with you.

My husband lives with me, and we get along very well because he is not a junior partner beta male who is constantly trying to weasel out of doing any work and whining about his feelings. I'd rather be single than with a "junior partner" man.

I’ll see you in a relationship forum in 10 years when he’s banging a 28 year old.

Enjoy thinking you’re right up until that day.

I really do wonder what you think is so bad or difficult about being a responsible adult. Lots of people are able to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Try to understand that some ways are better than others. My way is not the only way, but half-assing and procrastinating and dumping the consequences on others is not acceptable.

You are wrong but it will takes years for you to get to that conclusion if you’re ever wise enough to arrive there.

How is she wrong? If I let DH handle summer plans he would wait until June and book one random week somewhere. Then expect me to cover the rest of the summer because he “has to work in the office now.”

Example: in 2 weeks DH will have to start going into the office 4 days/week. Has he said a SINGLE word to me about how to arrange school pickup/after school? No, he has not. Will also just randomly announce he is entirely leaving town without asking about my schedule.

Men don’t see themselves as “junior partners” in the family, what a joke. They see themselves as entirely independent and with zero responsibility except when they decide they want it. It’s the mom/wife who is the junior partner. Always.

This. Or worse, they think you're their assistant or secretary. I've had to fight *hard* against this tendency-- the more men get into manager-managee relationships at work, the more they'll start acting this way at home too.

[Anonymous]

This is the kind of thing my DH would say because he is a whiny baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Right, feeding kids is optional to you.

And you wonder why you’re the jr partner?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Why would you think he will do it, if he hasn't and it's 9 PM? Clearly he's not going to do it or he would have done it already.

Honestly the only solution for this is drawing some very hard lines and having blowout fights until he grows up or you divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Why would you think he will do it, if he hasn't and it's 9 PM? Clearly he's not going to do it or he would have done it already.

Honestly the only solution for this is drawing some very hard lines and having blowout fights until he grows up or you divorce.

And besides, procrastinating until everyone else refuses to do it for you is junior partner behavior even if you do get around to it eventually. Either the kids eat within two hours of their normal time, or you're failing. Sorry but it's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Thought experiment: If you were supposed to order lunch for your team at work, and you blew it off and there was no food and it was 3 hours after lunchtime, would you say these things? Or is it only your wife and child you're willing to treat badly?

[Anonymous]

I get that in many families the husband has the more demanding job, but I don't buy that this doesn't leave him with time to be more involved in logistics/planning for the kids. If he's at the office 10 hours a day, is he really spending all six hundred of those minutes working? Obviously not; that's not humanly possible. So one day, instead of spending his 15-minute breaks chatting with colleagues or watching sports highlights on YouTube, he could research summer camps or set up a play date. Sending a text to suggest a playdate takes thirty seconds. No one is too busy to do that.

In general I'm skeptical of "I don't have time" as an excuse. People have time for the things they really care about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Why would you think he will do it, if he hasn't and it's 9 PM? Clearly he's not going to do it or he would have done it already.

Honestly the only solution for this is drawing some very hard lines and having blowout fights until he grows up or you divorce.

Also, if you are actually an engaged parent, you know that there are some tried and true things that help make sure kids are well behaved and easier to deal with. Getting enough sleep and eating on time. Having a consistent schedule. These are not just things uptight, rigid parents do because they "have anxiety" or whatever. These are things good parents do to make everything else easier. Take care of your kids' basic needs are met. Then you can be spontaneous, relaxed, etc. But first make sure kids aren't hungry, tired, or freaking out because they have no idea what is going on in their lives or what happens next.

The reason the mom in this situation will go ahead and get the kid dinner and put him to bed is not because she's "controlling" or "anxious." It's because she knows that the kid who eats dinner at 9:30 and goes to bed at 11 is liable to wake up at a weird time in a bad mood, be an enormous pain for the next 24 hours, and throw everything else off. So she does her husband's tasks for him so that her next day can be a little less painful.

The reason a lot of dad's will do stuff like let kids stay up super late, feed them junk food at weird times, or do "spontaneous" outings that totally throw off their schedules is because they are, in fact, the junior partner. They don't view themselves as responsible for keeping things running smoothly, so they have no issues doing things that are bound to throw everything out of whack since they won't be the ones who have to rein it back in.

It's easy to be the fun, relaxed parent when you don't deal with the consequences for not doing basic aspects of parenting in a responsible way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Why would you think he will do it, if he hasn't and it's 9 PM? Clearly he's not going to do it or he would have done it already.

Honestly the only solution for this is drawing some very hard lines and having blowout fights until he grows up or you divorce.

Also, if you are actually an engaged parent, you know that there are some tried and true things that help make sure kids are well behaved and easier to deal with. Getting enough sleep and eating on time. Having a consistent schedule. These are not just things uptight, rigid parents do because they "have anxiety" or whatever. These are things good parents do to make everything else easier. Take care of your kids' basic needs are met. Then you can be spontaneous, relaxed, etc. But first make sure kids aren't hungry, tired, or freaking out because they have no idea what is going on in their lives or what happens next.

The reason the mom in this situation will go ahead and get the kid dinner and put him to bed is not because she's "controlling" or "anxious." It's because she knows that the kid who eats dinner at 9:30 and goes to bed at 11 is liable to wake up at a weird time in a bad mood, be an enormous pain for the next 24 hours, and throw everything else off. So she does her husband's tasks for him so that her next day can be a little less painful.

The reason a lot of dad's will do stuff like let kids stay up super late, feed them junk food at weird times, or do "spontaneous" outings that totally throw off their schedules is because they are, in fact, the junior partner. They don't view themselves as responsible for keeping things running smoothly, so they have no issues doing things that are bound to throw everything out of whack since they won't be the ones who have to rein it back in.

It's easy to be the fun, relaxed parent when you don't deal with the consequences for not doing basic aspects of parenting in a responsible way.

All of this! And then you end up with the fun dad/boring mom dynamic because the dad is hogging all the schedule and food and budget deviations for himself and the mom's having to pick up the pieces.

Men are the junior partner because they want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.

Just go to bed.

So it's like a game of chicken as to who's willing to neglect the children the most?

No, he will eventually do it, and your children will not starve to death.

Do you have an anxiety disorder?

Why would you think he will do it, if he hasn't and it's 9 PM? Clearly he's not going to do it or he would have done it already.

Honestly the only solution for this is drawing some very hard lines and having blowout fights until he grows up or you divorce.

Also, if you are actually an engaged parent, you know that there are some tried and true things that help make sure kids are well behaved and easier to deal with. Getting enough sleep and eating on time. Having a consistent schedule. These are not just things uptight, rigid parents do because they "have anxiety" or whatever. These are things good parents do to make everything else easier. Take care of your kids' basic needs are met. Then you can be spontaneous, relaxed, etc. But first make sure kids aren't hungry, tired, or freaking out because they have no idea what is going on in their lives or what happens next.

The reason the mom in this situation will go ahead and get the kid dinner and put him to bed is not because she's "controlling" or "anxious." It's because she knows that the kid who eats dinner at 9:30 and goes to bed at 11 is liable to wake up at a weird time in a bad mood, be an enormous pain for the next 24 hours, and throw everything else off. So she does her husband's tasks for him so that her next day can be a little less painful.

The reason a lot of dad's will do stuff like let kids stay up super late, feed them junk food at weird times, or do "spontaneous" outings that totally throw off their schedules is because they are, in fact, the junior partner. They don't view themselves as responsible for keeping things running smoothly, so they have no issues doing things that are bound to throw everything out of whack since they won't be the ones who have to rein it back in.

It's easy to be the fun, relaxed parent when you don't deal with the consequences for not doing basic aspects of parenting in a responsible way.

+100. But I think if all parenting shifted to DH, he wouldn’t “figure it out,” after dealing with consequences, our kids would just be a mess. Especially since some of those consequences are very delayed in the grand scheme of life. For example, I make my kids fold their laundry even if it’s like pulling teeth, whereas DH will do it for them. Yes, it would be easier for me to spend ten minutes folding it myself, but I’m playing the long game and trying to create responsible humans.