husband as "junior partner" in childrearing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Try to understand that some ways are better than others. My way is not the only way, but half-assing and procrastinating and dumping the consequences on others is not acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

It really sucks to be in one of those marriages. Not only do you have to do most of the work yourself and fix your DH's mistakes, without wounding his fragile little ego, you get blamed for his poor performance and accused of being overly critical when you try to get him to uphold his obligations and be a diligent parent. I'd rather be single.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my home, it's because my job is to think of all the stuff that has to be done. My DH will help out, but he looks to me to know what he's supposed to help with. I get pretty excited when he takes initiative and figures something out on his own, but it's so, so rare.

It honestly started when I was pregnant. I was actually pregnant, so already I was more "involved" in that I actually had stuff I had to do at that point and DH didn't. But it also meant I was ready baby books, doing research, figuring out what we needed, thinking about how we'd approach certain initial parenting choices like feeding and sleep. I tried really hard to get DH involved in this, but he just... wouldn't. He'd read a page of a baby book and lose interest. He kept saying stuff like "I'd rather figure it out as we go." Which yeah, there is an element of that, but I didn't want to be figuring it ALL out as we went. I wanted to know, for instance, where the baby would be sleeping at first, and at least know enough bout stuff like breastfeeding, sleep, etc. to be able to make informed choices when the time came.

So I became the person who knew things and planned ahead, and DH because the parent who liked to "wing it". This inevitably leads to him asking me for stuff, needing me to tell him about stuff, etc. So much of parenting is not conducive to winging it. Schools HATE parents who wing it -- you have to be on top of things and on time. Summer camps start booking up in January, so if you wing it, congratulations -- you don't have childcare this summer now. Going on vacation with kids requires planning. Going out to dinner with kids requires planning.

We also have a kid with ADHD and other special needs, and let me tell you: DH's "wing it" approach is a disaster there. This kid has high rigidity and low distress tolerance, so you can't just assume she will roll with it when her preferred foods aren't available, nap doesn't happen when she expects it to, or a promised treat or event simply doesn't happen.

So, yes, DH is my "junior partner" in parenting because I did all the homework and he just showed up. I just know all the stuff. I also actually retain information from mistakes we make in the past, where he just lives in the present a lot. It does annoy him sometimes, and it annoys me too. But we both know the only way to change it is for him to step up and start doing more planning, paying more attention, and not relying on me to be the person who knows everything and prepares for everything, and I think his interest in that is low. So it continues. I don't love it but at least when I ask him to do stuff, he usually does it.

God buy you sound awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is epidemic with my husbands friends, they talk about it a lot. It’s the other side of the “why do I have to do everything” coin that is constantly discussed by women on DCUM.

How many women here, truly, would be comfortable with their husband’s being in charge of an important task and never, ever reminding them, nagging them, or stepping in, and just letting them do it in their own way and on their own timeframe?

If he’s in charge of summer camps and you haven’t heard anything or seen any movement and it’s now March, can you hold your tongue? What about picking out the next car seat with no input from you? How about researching potty training, picking a method, and taking the lead on it?

It’s for sure a chicken and egg problem, I can already anticipate the responses of “he would mess it up, he has in the past, he wouldn’t do it.” But feeling like a subordinate is definitely the other side of the coin.

Many women (subconsciously) want their husbands to do half the work, but for them to be the managers, set the expectations, and determine, how, when, and to what degree the work is done. That’s not the path to equality - you have to share the management, too.

I would be thrilled if my DH handled anything. But experience has showed me he will always, always drop the ball unless it is something he personally cares about. So these “jr partner” dads need to ask themselves if they have done similar things. It’s not optional to, say, enroll child in school by the deadline, cook dinner, potty train in time for preschool…:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is epidemic with my husbands friends, they talk about it a lot. It’s the other side of the “why do I have to do everything” coin that is constantly discussed by women on DCUM.

How many women here, truly, would be comfortable with their husband’s being in charge of an important task and never, ever reminding them, nagging them, or stepping in, and just letting them do it in their own way and on their own timeframe?

If he’s in charge of summer camps and you haven’t heard anything or seen any movement and it’s now March, can you hold your tongue? What about picking out the next car seat with no input from you? How about researching potty training, picking a method, and taking the lead on it?

It’s for sure a chicken and egg problem, I can already anticipate the responses of “he would mess it up, he has in the past, he wouldn’t do it.” But feeling like a subordinate is definitely the other side of the coin.

Many women (subconsciously) want their husbands to do half the work, but for them to be the managers, set the expectations, and determine, how, when, and to what degree the work is done. That’s not the path to equality - you have to share the management, too.

You mean after the camps are all filled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my home, it's because my job is to think of all the stuff that has to be done. My DH will help out, but he looks to me to know what he's supposed to help with. I get pretty excited when he takes initiative and figures something out on his own, but it's so, so rare.

It honestly started when I was pregnant. I was actually pregnant, so already I was more "involved" in that I actually had stuff I had to do at that point and DH didn't. But it also meant I was ready baby books, doing research, figuring out what we needed, thinking about how we'd approach certain initial parenting choices like feeding and sleep. I tried really hard to get DH involved in this, but he just... wouldn't. He'd read a page of a baby book and lose interest. He kept saying stuff like "I'd rather figure it out as we go." Which yeah, there is an element of that, but I didn't want to be figuring it ALL out as we went. I wanted to know, for instance, where the baby would be sleeping at first, and at least know enough bout stuff like breastfeeding, sleep, etc. to be able to make informed choices when the time came.

So I became the person who knew things and planned ahead, and DH because the parent who liked to "wing it". This inevitably leads to him asking me for stuff, needing me to tell him about stuff, etc. So much of parenting is not conducive to winging it. Schools HATE parents who wing it -- you have to be on top of things and on time. Summer camps start booking up in January, so if you wing it, congratulations -- you don't have childcare this summer now. Going on vacation with kids requires planning. Going out to dinner with kids requires planning.

We also have a kid with ADHD and other special needs, and let me tell you: DH's "wing it" approach is a disaster there. This kid has high rigidity and low distress tolerance, so you can't just assume she will roll with it when her preferred foods aren't available, nap doesn't happen when she expects it to, or a promised treat or event simply doesn't happen.

So, yes, DH is my "junior partner" in parenting because I did all the homework and he just showed up. I just know all the stuff. I also actually retain information from mistakes we make in the past, where he just lives in the present a lot. It does annoy him sometimes, and it annoys me too. But we both know the only way to change it is for him to step up and start doing more planning, paying more attention, and not relying on me to be the person who knows everything and prepares for everything, and I think his interest in that is low. So it continues. I don't love it but at least when I ask him to do stuff, he usually does it.

+1 this is so my experience, down to the reading pregnancy books.

It drives me nuts because I know he doesn’t wing it at work. He kills it at work. He just doesn’t bring that same energy to home/kid admin or logistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Entirely situation-dependent. If a wife is criticizing her husband for doing things a little differently, then yes, that's obnoxious and I could see him just not trying and deferring to her in everything because it's not worth the hassle.

But what I see often is that men do things poorly, with no preparation and minimal effort, their wife justifiably criticizes them because of a bad outcome (kids who didn't get fed, missed class, late to school, not properly dressed for weather or event, kids who are melting down because hungry/tired/cold, etc.) and he throws up his hands and says "why even try if you are just going to criticize what I do!" I can't tell if it's just an instinctual defensiveness to being correctly criticized for doing something poorly, or if the whole thing is feigned incompetence specifically to get out of doing things in the future. Maybe a little of both.

I don't criticize my DH's parenting unless there's a bad outcome. Like if he does something totally the opposite of how I'd do it but (1) it gets done, (2) the kids get what they need, and (3) I am not forced to jump in at the last minute to help make it happen, then I don't really care. But when I do criticize, it's because something didn't happen, the kids are a mess, or I've had to drop something at work or get out of bed or interrupt a social commitment in order to help him get it done. And I'm justified. If "his way" means the kids are screaming and crying or I have to leave work an hour early to fix something, then his way sucks. And this goes the other way, too, by the way. If I screw something up enough that it impacts the kids or him, then he is welcome to weigh in on how to do it better.

[Anonymous]

These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One complaint you sometimes hear from dads is that they feel like the wife's employee or junior partner in childcare. I've always wondered exactly what is meant by this or what is involves in practice. Is it about not knowing what to do? Not feeling sufficiently involved in decisions? Not being around enough? If you're a man who feels this way (or a wife whose DH complains about it) can you explain what it means?

Sadly, too many women criticize everything their husband does if it isn't exactly their way. They criticize so much that the husband stops doing anything. Your way is not the only way.

Entirely situation-dependent. If a wife is criticizing her husband for doing things a little differently, then yes, that's obnoxious and I could see him just not trying and deferring to her in everything because it's not worth the hassle.

But what I see often is that men do things poorly, with no preparation and minimal effort, their wife justifiably criticizes them because of a bad outcome (kids who didn't get fed, missed class, late to school, not properly dressed for weather or event, kids who are melting down because hungry/tired/cold, etc.) and he throws up his hands and says "why even try if you are just going to criticize what I do!" I can't tell if it's just an instinctual defensiveness to being correctly criticized for doing something poorly, or if the whole thing is feigned incompetence specifically to get out of doing things in the future. Maybe a little of both.

I don't criticize my DH's parenting unless there's a bad outcome. Like if he does something totally the opposite of how I'd do it but (1) it gets done, (2) the kids get what they need, and (3) I am not forced to jump in at the last minute to help make it happen, then I don't really care. But when I do criticize, it's because something didn't happen, the kids are a mess, or I've had to drop something at work or get out of bed or interrupt a social commitment in order to help him get it done. And I'm justified. If "his way" means the kids are screaming and crying or I have to leave work an hour early to fix something, then his way sucks. And this goes the other way, too, by the way. If I screw something up enough that it impacts the kids or him, then he is welcome to weigh in on how to do it better.

Exactly. There’s a difference between “you dressed Larlo and his shirt doesn’t match his shorts” and “you dressed Larlo in a t shirt and no jacket when it was 50 degrees outside”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

Sure. As long as it’s fine and in-budget if the wife does that every single time she’s left on her own with the kids.

If I did that, we would have dinner out 4-5 times a week, at $50-60 a dinner. $13k/yr in bandaids for my incompetence. That’s fine with you, okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

Sure. As long as it’s fine and in-budget if the wife does that every single time she’s left on her own with the kids.

If I did that, we would have dinner out 4-5 times a week, at $50-60 a dinner. $13k/yr in bandaids for my incompetence. That’s fine with you, okay.

This. If doing a pathetic bare-minimum job of parenting is good enough for you, I'm sorry for your kids. No concern for their homework, their activities, preparing for the week ahead, cleaning up after themselves so the mom doesn't come home to a wrecked house, teaching them life skills and chores etc., no nothing. Just the sad pathetic bare minimum and you're super-dad. Okay. And you wonder why you're treated like a junior partner. Can you imagine having this attitude at work? Come on.

[Anonymous]

We have known three different families where the seemingly normal wives went so far off the deep end of anxiety once the kids were born. And the husbands did nothing. Just went PBH, didn’t object, didn’t have the wife seek help. Just agreed to eternal cosleeping and not ever leaving the kids with sitters. Make helicopter moms look tame. Husbands do nothing - asset nothing to wife. It’s really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

Yes, you do need a plan to go out to dinner. Where to go, check the dates and hours, make sure you actually want to pay their prices, quick look at the menu to make sure the kids will eat at least something. Possible change of clothes if it's a nicer restaurant or they're especially gross. If they are small, pack an activity so they don't get fussy while waiting. If a baby, check diaper bag and ensure diapers and a spare outfit. Bring baby food, bottle, or breastfeed and/or pump in advance if needed.

I am sorry that you are a person who thinks going out to dinner just magically happens without anyone having to think about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These whine-fests are never ending. Have you never left your children at home for a weekend with your husband in charge? If not, why not? When you arrive home and all the kids are accounted for and no one had to go to the ER, it’s all good. His way might not be YOUR way, but isn’t that okay? To the super planners who posted…You need a “plan” to go out to dinner? What’s the problem with, “Kids, grab your coats, we are going out for dinner tonight.”

It’s like: I arrive home after a night out and its 9pm and kid hasn’t eaten dinner and DH is expecting me to make it.

Or I arrive home and its 10pm and kid isn’t in bed (guess who gets to handle the fallout)

Or I arrive home and there are dishes everywhere that nobody else will do.