Tried to ‘mentor’ young woman, not going well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Young Jane approaches me (Senior Female) and praises me for my insightful questions and asks how she can be involved in Working Group I am on. WG has enough members, but I lean on mid-level Bob to make room for Jane. I email Jane telling her she’s in. No response. Jane starts coming to meetings, Jane behaves in a coquettish manner, Jane does not add much value but that’s ok because she’s inexperienced. Jane does not engage with me. But now Jane has started flirting openly with Bob. It’s awkward, others have started noticing. Bob reciprocates a bit but does not encourage her.

What would you do? I brought her in do I feel responsible but don’t see a way to fix this dynamic.

Make sure Bob knows how it came about that Jane is on WG. He might be trying to be nice to Jane thinking that she's your protege. People praising Jane's smarts are wrong. She is dumb to immediately show her hand if her plan is to move up the ranks this way.

[Anonymous]

so who does jane report to and what is the reporting relationship between you and bob?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Jane either has a crush on Bob, in which case she might become his girlfriend or wife. Or Jane somehow thinks she's going to move up in this organization thanks to Bob.

If the flirting gets too much, and you're the one responsible for this WG, then you need to step in tell her to knock it off because it's unprofessional. If he's doing it back, then given him the speech too.

Bob is married. I can’t tell if Jane thinks it is ok to interact like this in a professional environment or if Jane is oblivious as sometimes the young tend to be. Jane is 28 so younger than the others but terribly young.

She may be young but you are terribly naive. Jane is not. It matters not that Bob is married. Trust me on this one.

I have to give Jane credit. She's realized early that rising up the ranks is usually not based on merit. I've seen others use this approach and it works. Putting your head down and doing a good job on your assignments usually doesn't.

I've actually seen highly productive and intelligent women use this approach to advance. It doesn't mean they get promoted without merit, but does get them the spotlight needed to advance. I'm corporate though so do not judge any methods used to move up.

This times a million. I am a fairly conventionally attractive woman who is gay (a.k.a. a lipstick lesbian) but I saw this all.the.time. in biglaw. Most of the men didn't know/realize I was gay and would attempt to flirt and these women all took it and ran -- it wasn't for the male attention, it was for the access to power, good work, opportunities, etc. They got on cases and got projects because these men liked them.

As a recipient of this, I absolutely took advantage of the pretty privilege until I moved onto greener, less toxic pastures.

I will say, most of the older women would act like OP if they moved an inch for you. These were so competitive and unhelpful because they were: (1) guarding their turf with all their might from being passed off to younger, cheaper, better looking collegues and (2) incredibly busy working mothers or (3) greedy AF.

It is all just an example of the toxic nature of the work world. It's just full of terrible people.

The irony in being a toxic person yet claiming others made the environment toxic. LOL.

Listen, these work places are completely utterly toxic. They also pay well enough to move someone to a financial position where they are fundamentally comfortable. So, no, I have no qualms about using the inherent sexism in my favor while I could. All of these women were incredibly smart and talented. But here's the rub, so is everyone else. This isn't a meritocracy. Relationships, pedigree, and even just making someone who has the power to give you work and protect you comfortable is all that matters once you cross the threshold of being smart (spoiler -- 95 percent of the people hired can do this). We all can't remind people of themselves and get sponsored by the partners in the firm, PP.

It's a disgusting dirty world. I'm just more honest about it. It's sexist, it's racist, its terrible, but I also made enough money to buy my home cash, build up a nest egg and transition to a job that is not completely toxic.

And I thank god, I did all of this before I had kids or got "older" or whatever. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Jane either has a crush on Bob, in which case she might become his girlfriend or wife. Or Jane somehow thinks she's going to move up in this organization thanks to Bob.

If the flirting gets too much, and you're the one responsible for this WG, then you need to step in tell her to knock it off because it's unprofessional. If he's doing it back, then given him the speech too.

Bob is married. I can’t tell if Jane thinks it is ok to interact like this in a professional environment or if Jane is oblivious as sometimes the young tend to be. Jane is 28 so younger than the others but terribly young.

She may be young but you are terribly naive. Jane is not. It matters not that Bob is married. Trust me on this one.

I have to give Jane credit. She's realized early that rising up the ranks is usually not based on merit. I've seen others use this approach and it works. Putting your head down and doing a good job on your assignments usually doesn't.

I've actually seen highly productive and intelligent women use this approach to advance. It doesn't mean they get promoted without merit, but does get them the spotlight needed to advance. I'm corporate though so do not judge any methods used to move up.

This times a million. I am a fairly conventionally attractive woman who is gay (a.k.a. a lipstick lesbian) but I saw this all.the.time. in biglaw. Most of the men didn't know/realize I was gay and would attempt to flirt and these women all took it and ran -- it wasn't for the male attention, it was for the access to power, good work, opportunities, etc. They got on cases and got projects because these men liked them.

As a recipient of this, I absolutely took advantage of the pretty privilege until I moved onto greener, less toxic pastures.

I will say, most of the older women would act like OP if they moved an inch for you. These were so competitive and unhelpful because they were: (1) guarding their turf with all their might from being passed off to younger, cheaper, better looking collegues and (2) incredibly busy working mothers or (3) greedy AF.

It is all just an example of the toxic nature of the work world. It's just full of terrible people.

The irony in being a toxic person yet claiming others made the environment toxic. LOL.

Listen, these work places are completely utterly toxic. They also pay well enough to move someone to a financial position where they are fundamentally comfortable. So, no, I have no qualms about using the inherent sexism in my favor while I could. All of these women were incredibly smart and talented. But here's the rub, so is everyone else. This isn't a meritocracy. Relationships, pedigree, and even just making someone who has the power to give you work and protect you comfortable is all that matters once you cross the threshold of being smart (spoiler -- 95 percent of the people hired can do this). We all can't remind people of themselves and get sponsored by the partners in the firm, PP.

It's a disgusting dirty world. I'm just more honest about it. It's sexist, it's racist, its terrible, but I also made enough money to buy my home cash, build up a nest egg and transition to a job that is not completely toxic.

And I thank god, I did all of this before I had kids or got "older" or whatever. It is what it is.

No you’re not. Your first post decried workplace toxicity without plainly stating you contributed to it. Even in this post you’re overly defensive about your own behavior.

Rules for thee and not for me!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't need to fix anything, she's about to rocket up the ranks.

This. You’ve done your part now you will be forgotten

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You voucher for her to join the group. Pull her aside and let her know that her flirting behavior has been noticed by others and is unprofessional. Give her specific examples because she may not know what she’s doing.

Check in with her between WG meetings and pose questions for her to consider or something she should prepare prior to the meeting. If and when she doesn’t do those things, let her know you don’t think she’s puller her weight and you won’t be able to recommend her for WGs in the future.

Good lord no. This woman is 28. She knows what she is doing. Leave the situation alone and focus on your own work.

+1. She's not that young and knows exactly what she's doing. I am unsure why people are underestimating her. I understand op's point, but part of me thinks her frustration comes from being played. Op's ego was flattered to be sought out seemingly to mentor, but was actually used as a stepping stone.

I'm cautious about who I take under my wing. I find the younger people today to be far more ruthless and cunning than my generation (gen X).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You voucher for her to join the group. Pull her aside and let her know that her flirting behavior has been noticed by others and is unprofessional. Give her specific examples because she may not know what she’s doing.

Check in with her between WG meetings and pose questions for her to consider or something she should prepare prior to the meeting. If and when she doesn’t do those things, let her know you don’t think she’s puller her weight and you won’t be able to recommend her for WGs in the future.

OMG no do not confront her directly about flirting you will set yourself up for some kind of antidiscrimination suit. Instead publicly humiliate her, set her up for a fall, power play and backstage her, blackball her. But be warned, if she is crazy enough it could backfire.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You voucher for her to join the group. Pull her aside and let her know that her flirting behavior has been noticed by others and is unprofessional. Give her specific examples because she may not know what she’s doing.

Check in with her between WG meetings and pose questions for her to consider or something she should prepare prior to the meeting. If and when she doesn’t do those things, let her know you don’t think she’s puller her weight and you won’t be able to recommend her for WGs in the future.

OMG no do not confront her directly about flirting you will set yourself up for some kind of antidiscrimination suit. Instead publicly humiliate her, set her up for a fall, power play and backstage her, blackball her. But be warned, if she is crazy enough it could backfire.

Why waste energy doing any of this? Flirting with a co-worker doesn't warrant any of your suggestions. Op should learn from whatever role she played and cut her losses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Jane either has a crush on Bob, in which case she might become his girlfriend or wife. Or Jane somehow thinks she's going to move up in this organization thanks to Bob.

If the flirting gets too much, and you're the one responsible for this WG, then you need to step in tell her to knock it off because it's unprofessional. If he's doing it back, then given him the speech too.

Bob is married. I can’t tell if Jane thinks it is ok to interact like this in a professional environment or if Jane is oblivious as sometimes the young tend to be. Jane is 28 so younger than the others but terribly young.

She may be young but you are terribly naive. Jane is not. It matters not that Bob is married. Trust me on this one.

I have to give Jane credit. She's realized early that rising up the ranks is usually not based on merit. I've seen others use this approach and it works. Putting your head down and doing a good job on your assignments usually doesn't.

I've actually seen highly productive and intelligent women use this approach to advance. It doesn't mean they get promoted without merit, but does get them the spotlight needed to advance. I'm corporate though so do not judge any methods used to move up.

This times a million. I am a fairly conventionally attractive woman who is gay (a.k.a. a lipstick lesbian) but I saw this all.the.time. in biglaw. Most of the men didn't know/realize I was gay and would attempt to flirt and these women all took it and ran -- it wasn't for the male attention, it was for the access to power, good work, opportunities, etc. They got on cases and got projects because these men liked them.

As a recipient of this, I absolutely took advantage of the pretty privilege until I moved onto greener, less toxic pastures.

I will say, most of the older women would act like OP if they moved an inch for you. These were so competitive and unhelpful because they were: (1) guarding their turf with all their might from being passed off to younger, cheaper, better looking collegues and (2) incredibly busy working mothers or (3) greedy AF.

It is all just an example of the toxic nature of the work world. It's just full of terrible people.

The irony in being a toxic person yet claiming others made the environment toxic. LOL.

Listen, these work places are completely utterly toxic. They also pay well enough to move someone to a financial position where they are fundamentally comfortable. So, no, I have no qualms about using the inherent sexism in my favor while I could. All of these women were incredibly smart and talented. But here's the rub, so is everyone else. This isn't a meritocracy. Relationships, pedigree, and even just making someone who has the power to give you work and protect you comfortable is all that matters once you cross the threshold of being smart (spoiler -- 95 percent of the people hired can do this). We all can't remind people of themselves and get sponsored by the partners in the firm, PP.

It's a disgusting dirty world. I'm just more honest about it. It's sexist, it's racist, its terrible, but I also made enough money to buy my home cash, build up a nest egg and transition to a job that is not completely toxic.

And I thank god, I did all of this before I had kids or got "older" or whatever. It is what it is.

We all don’t remind people of themselves and get sponsored, but some of us actually do treat people with respect and move up based on our work. It’s not as easy or as fast, and sometimes it’s not as high either, but it doesn’t require a 2 paragraph essay on why it’s not ethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Jane either has a crush on Bob, in which case she might become his girlfriend or wife. Or Jane somehow thinks she's going to move up in this organization thanks to Bob.

If the flirting gets too much, and you're the one responsible for this WG, then you need to step in tell her to knock it off because it's unprofessional. If he's doing it back, then given him the speech too.

Bob is married. I can’t tell if Jane thinks it is ok to interact like this in a professional environment or if Jane is oblivious as sometimes the young tend to be. Jane is 28 so younger than the others but terribly young.

She may be young but you are terribly naive. Jane is not. It matters not that Bob is married. Trust me on this one.

I have to give Jane credit. She's realized early that rising up the ranks is usually not based on merit. I've seen others use this approach and it works. Putting your head down and doing a good job on your assignments usually doesn't.

I've actually seen highly productive and intelligent women use this approach to advance. It doesn't mean they get promoted without merit, but does get them the spotlight needed to advance. I'm corporate though so do not judge any methods used to move up.

This times a million. I am a fairly conventionally attractive woman who is gay (a.k.a. a lipstick lesbian) but I saw this all.the.time. in biglaw. Most of the men didn't know/realize I was gay and would attempt to flirt and these women all took it and ran -- it wasn't for the male attention, it was for the access to power, good work, opportunities, etc. They got on cases and got projects because these men liked them.

As a recipient of this, I absolutely took advantage of the pretty privilege until I moved onto greener, less toxic pastures.

I will say, most of the older women would act like OP if they moved an inch for you. These were so competitive and unhelpful because they were: (1) guarding their turf with all their might from being passed off to younger, cheaper, better looking collegues and (2) incredibly busy working mothers or (3) greedy AF.

It is all just an example of the toxic nature of the work world. It's just full of terrible people.

The irony in being a toxic person yet claiming others made the environment toxic. LOL.

Listen, these work places are completely utterly toxic. They also pay well enough to move someone to a financial position where they are fundamentally comfortable. So, no, I have no qualms about using the inherent sexism in my favor while I could. All of these women were incredibly smart and talented. But here's the rub, so is everyone else. This isn't a meritocracy. Relationships, pedigree, and even just making someone who has the power to give you work and protect you comfortable is all that matters once you cross the threshold of being smart (spoiler -- 95 percent of the people hired can do this). We all can't remind people of themselves and get sponsored by the partners in the firm, PP.

It's a disgusting dirty world. I'm just more honest about it. It's sexist, it's racist, its terrible, but I also made enough money to buy my home cash, build up a nest egg and transition to a job that is not completely toxic.

And I thank god, I did all of this before I had kids or got "older" or whatever. It is what it is.

We all don’t remind people of themselves and get sponsored, but some of us actually do treat people with respect and move up based on our work. It’s not as easy or as fast, and sometimes it’s not as high either, but it doesn’t require a 2 paragraph essay on why it’s not ethical.

Yes, you absolutely pulled yourself up by your own merit, PP! It's those other lazy black people and sl-uts that didn't, amirite!

[Anonymous]

The only way to fix this is to sleep with Bob, ASAP.

[Anonymous]

Ugh this is why people hate old ladies at work.

Jane's trynna get it in. So what?

[Anonymous]

Unless you really gave the group the hard sell about Jane's worthiness, I doubt people think you're accountable for all of her behavior. Even if there's a slight negative association, it's not going to swing anybody's opinion of you or your judgment.

If you really want to mentor her, I think you should give her some feedback on what you're seeing. She probably doesn't know how how she's coming across, and she almost certainly doesn't know how this will likely play out in the long run. That's where a menor comes in. Give her the benefit of your experience and perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You voucher for her to join the group. Pull her aside and let her know that her flirting behavior has been noticed by others and is unprofessional. Give her specific examples because she may not know what she’s doing.

Check in with her between WG meetings and pose questions for her to consider or something she should prepare prior to the meeting. If and when she doesn’t do those things, let her know you don’t think she’s puller her weight and you won’t be able to recommend her for WGs in the future.

+1. Be very earnest and concerned about it. Explain that you can tell she's floundering and needs some help.

Also ask her "hey I don't mean to embarrass you but yesterday when you did xyz, it came off as unprofessional. Did you mean to be flirty with Bill? Or...? " See what she says.

It could truly be that she doesn't know she's being flirty. Or not.

[Anonymous]

Oh the drama