How do you identify the “good guy”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

+100

I had a good one for 23 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Life isn’t black and white. I married a guy who when we were dating was very caring and good at caretaking but who had difficulties emotionally regulating. Ten plus years on, he’s a devoted father and quite reliable, but the emotional regulation piece is tanking our marriage and very hard to live with.

I agree with the poster who said you picked based on how he looked on paper. Marriage really is the whole person — not just certain aspects of how they fill certain roles.

People can still lie to you or change. Tons of people I know where the man had a reasonable but not exciting career and was caring, religious, held same values. Family man for a while and then ran off with some AP who tempted him. Sometimes this stuff is happening 30 plus years into the marriage. You can't say that someone somehow knew how this person would act 30 years later.

I've learned that we can only control ourselves and take responsibility for ourselves.

Yep. I’ve been around long enough (53 years) to see “good” people lose their damn minds in middle age and do really shocking stuff.

People have midlife crisis, mental health issues, unprocessed trauma cone out as parents die and kids get the age they were when abused.

It’s nuts.

[Anonymous]

People and circumstances change. Welcome to life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

People aren’t formulaic like that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

You sound very naive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

Not true. If life happens in a way that breaks them somehow they may cross whatever boundaries you think they have. They may live to regret or correct it but I’ve seen it happen. There is such a thing as more stress than people can take. Not every has a life with such privilege that they never break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Life isn’t black and white. I married a guy who when we were dating was very caring and good at caretaking but who had difficulties emotionally regulating. Ten plus years on, he’s a devoted father and quite reliable, but the emotional regulation piece is tanking our marriage and very hard to live with.

I agree with the poster who said you picked based on how he looked on paper. Marriage really is the whole person — not just certain aspects of how they fill certain roles.

People can still lie to you or change. Tons of people I know where the man had a reasonable but not exciting career and was caring, religious, held same values. Family man for a while and then ran off with some AP who tempted him. Sometimes this stuff is happening 30 plus years into the marriage. You can't say that someone somehow knew how this person would act 30 years later.

I've learned that we can only control ourselves and take responsibility for ourselves.

Yep. I’ve been around long enough (53 years) to see “good” people lose their damn minds in middle age and do really shocking stuff.

People have midlife crisis, mental health issues, unprocessed trauma cone out as parents die and kids get the age they were when abused.

It’s nuts.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

Not true. If life happens in a way that breaks them somehow they may cross whatever boundaries you think they have. They may live to regret or correct it but I’ve seen it happen. There is such a thing as more stress than people can take. Not every has a life with such privilege that they never break.

Agree. Crazy stuff can happen midlife. Mental health issues, midlife crises, etc.

[Anonymous]

Watch how men behave toward other men of lower status, and watch how they respond when a friend is in crisis. If they treat the former with kindness and perform well in the latter situation, probably they're going to be good partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just don't know. People can change over the years, and the longer you've been married the more they can change.

No, people may change places where they live, literature they read, they may get more education, they may change their profession or hobby. What does not change is their core value. If the person raised not to lie, steal, cheat, respect their parents, keep their votes, they will change, but they will change within those boundaries.

Not true. If life happens in a way that breaks them somehow they may cross whatever boundaries you think they have. They may live to regret or correct it but I’ve seen it happen. There is such a thing as more stress than people can take. Not every has a life with such privilege that they never break.

A good person will own it, do everything they can to change and comfort the victim and never, ever do it again. They will have legitimate remorse and guilt because what they did doesn't line up with own moral code.

A crappy person will pretend and then do it again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watch how men behave toward other men of lower status, and watch how they respond when a friend is in crisis. If they treat the former with kindness and perform well in the latter situation, probably they're going to be good partners.

You know these men still cheat, right? You can watch them support people, help a friend's wife when he's going through a terminal illness, be there for a friend that lost his job, etc, etc. yet they still can do bad things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I picked right. He went to the right schools, lived in a nice house, parents still together even if dysfunctional. He presented himself well, clean cut and preppy. He had a decent job upon graduation from graduate school. He was kind to his parents and animals and a loyal friend.

10 years later, hes had multiple mental breakdowns as he cannot apparently handle stress of adulthood, has had drinking problems and cheated on me.

What did I do wrong?

What is your definition of a “good guy”? It seems the vast majority your requirements were about wealth and earning potential not about the quality of the man. Lot of bad people can be wealthy, clean cut, go to the right schools, have the right job, preppy, etc.

Yup, this struck me too. OP was focused on superficial things.

DP. Perhaps she was.

But thread after thread, post after post, on DCUM in recent years has yammered about how women need to snag men who have specific (high) incomes, certain college degrees, certain types of career paths, etc.

There's a definite fixation among some women with income and lifestyle, since some posters talk about staying married only to maintain their lifestyle, at least until kids are gone. I am NOT saying OP was one of those people, at all. It sounds like she definitely had more than money in mind and he put on a very good "front" for the world.

But let's not pretend that at least on DCUM, there is a huge emphasis for some people on money, educational level, homes, "providing" for the family as yardsticks for marriage material.

And people who fall for that nonsense often end up miserable. The same thing with real estate/neighborhoods. People make themselves miserable to afford a house in a particular area because that is what was drummed into their heads. Same for private schools, enrichment programs, youth sports, etc. It is easy to lose your moral compass in this competitive environment.

I know many many people that married for love instead of money security and ended up miserable. Different backgrounds. Hidden addictions. Just lower standards in the family they married into. Both men and women just drifing off after realizing they couldn't handle marriage. It happens both ways.

I'm not sure what "marry for love" means in that context. It sounds like people who were driven by different cultural propaganda: fairy tales, rom-coms, princess movies, etc. You are setting up a false choice: either Prince Charming or Gordon Gekko. I think that if you have your head on straight, then you have a better chance of finding someone who has the same views of marriage, family, commitment, etc. But you have to be willing to forego some money and some of the romantic ideals.

That's not what I meant at all. Beta males and women who are caring and responsible and loving don't always stay that way.

Beta males? If you talk like that, I assume you are some aspie who has to read books on how to have relationships, and that you have no idea how people actually work.

It's true that people can change, but this is about maximizing the chances of finding a good spouse. If you have a good sense of what makes a successful partner for marriage and look for that, you don't necessarily need to choose between "marriage for love" and marriage for money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I picked right. He went to the right schools, lived in a nice house, parents still together even if dysfunctional. He presented himself well, clean cut and preppy. He had a decent job upon graduation from graduate school. He was kind to his parents and animals and a loyal friend.

10 years later, hes had multiple mental breakdowns as he cannot apparently handle stress of adulthood, has had drinking problems and cheated on me.

What did I do wrong?

What is your definition of a “good guy”? It seems the vast majority your requirements were about wealth and earning potential not about the quality of the man. Lot of bad people can be wealthy, clean cut, go to the right schools, have the right job, preppy, etc.

Yup, this struck me too. OP was focused on superficial things.

DP. Perhaps she was.

But thread after thread, post after post, on DCUM in recent years has yammered about how women need to snag men who have specific (high) incomes, certain college degrees, certain types of career paths, etc.

There's a definite fixation among some women with income and lifestyle, since some posters talk about staying married only to maintain their lifestyle, at least until kids are gone. I am NOT saying OP was one of those people, at all. It sounds like she definitely had more than money in mind and he put on a very good "front" for the world.

But let's not pretend that at least on DCUM, there is a huge emphasis for some people on money, educational level, homes, "providing" for the family as yardsticks for marriage material.

And people who fall for that nonsense often end up miserable. The same thing with real estate/neighborhoods. People make themselves miserable to afford a house in a particular area because that is what was drummed into their heads. Same for private schools, enrichment programs, youth sports, etc. It is easy to lose your moral compass in this competitive environment.

I know many many people that married for love instead of money security and ended up miserable. Different backgrounds. Hidden addictions. Just lower standards in the family they married into. Both men and women just drifing off after realizing they couldn't handle marriage. It happens both ways.

I'm not sure what "marry for love" means in that context. It sounds like people who were driven by different cultural propaganda: fairy tales, rom-coms, princess movies, etc. You are setting up a false choice: either Prince Charming or Gordon Gekko. I think that if you have your head on straight, then you have a better chance of finding someone who has the same views of marriage, family, commitment, etc. But you have to be willing to forego some money and some of the romantic ideals.

That's not what I meant at all. Beta males and women who are caring and responsible and loving don't always stay that way.

Beta males? If you talk like that, I assume you are some aspie who has to read books on how to have relationships, and that you have no idea how people actually work.

It's true that people can change, but this is about maximizing the chances of finding a good spouse. If you have a good sense of what makes a successful partner for marriage and look for that, you don't necessarily need to choose between "marriage for love" and marriage for money.

Fine but maximizing doesn't always work. I'm sure OP saw other things in her spouse beyond money. It just doesn't always work. That's why there are annullments and divorces.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought I picked right. He went to the right schools, lived in a nice house, parents still together even if dysfunctional. He presented himself well, clean cut and preppy. He had a decent job upon graduation from graduate school. He was kind to his parents and animals and a loyal friend.

10 years later, hes had multiple mental breakdowns as he cannot apparently handle stress of adulthood, has had drinking problems and cheated on me.

What did I do wrong?

What is your definition of a “good guy”? It seems the vast majority your requirements were about wealth and earning potential not about the quality of the man. Lot of bad people can be wealthy, clean cut, go to the right schools, have the right job, preppy, etc.

Yup, this struck me too. OP was focused on superficial things.

DP. Perhaps she was.

But thread after thread, post after post, on DCUM in recent years has yammered about how women need to snag men who have specific (high) incomes, certain college degrees, certain types of career paths, etc.

There's a definite fixation among some women with income and lifestyle, since some posters talk about staying married only to maintain their lifestyle, at least until kids are gone. I am NOT saying OP was one of those people, at all. It sounds like she definitely had more than money in mind and he put on a very good "front" for the world.

But let's not pretend that at least on DCUM, there is a huge emphasis for some people on money, educational level, homes, "providing" for the family as yardsticks for marriage material.

And people who fall for that nonsense often end up miserable. The same thing with real estate/neighborhoods. People make themselves miserable to afford a house in a particular area because that is what was drummed into their heads. Same for private schools, enrichment programs, youth sports, etc. It is easy to lose your moral compass in this competitive environment.

I know many many people that married for love instead of money security and ended up miserable. Different backgrounds. Hidden addictions. Just lower standards in the family they married into. Both men and women just drifing off after realizing they couldn't handle marriage. It happens both ways.

I'm not sure what "marry for love" means in that context. It sounds like people who were driven by different cultural propaganda: fairy tales, rom-coms, princess movies, etc. You are setting up a false choice: either Prince Charming or Gordon Gekko. I think that if you have your head on straight, then you have a better chance of finding someone who has the same views of marriage, family, commitment, etc. But you have to be willing to forego some money and some of the romantic ideals.

That's not what I meant at all. Beta males and women who are caring and responsible and loving don't always stay that way.

Beta males? If you talk like that, I assume you are some aspie who has to read books on how to have relationships, and that you have no idea how people actually work.

It's true that people can change, but this is about maximizing the chances of finding a good spouse. If you have a good sense of what makes a successful partner for marriage and look for that, you don't necessarily need to choose between "marriage for love" and marriage for money.

Fine but maximizing doesn't always work. I'm sure OP saw other things in her spouse beyond money. It just doesn't always work. That's why there are annullments and divorces.

Of course it doesn't always work. But OP leads with all sorts of things that have no correlation to being a good spouse: "went to the right schools", "lived in a nice house", "clean cut and preppy", etc. Maybe OP should have paid more attention to the dysfunctional parents than his nice house. That's the point.