To those that believe the elderly should always make their own decisions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drop the rope, Drop the rope, Drop the rope.

If you sister won't let you sleep in a bed in a bedroom in the house let your sister manage all of the affairs.

Let your sister pay your hotel bill.

I have a similar ocd sister, and I’ve decided to let them handle certain things. They are blocking progress so no way I’m going to deal with the fallout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t want to hear this, but you’re also part of the problem.

When your parent has a health issue—and it is a matter of when not if—that is the opening to transfer them to a nursing home. When they need to be discharged, that’s your opening to tell the social worker that you can’t care for them and it’s not safe for them to go home. That is the only time when you can actually move them. Yes, everyone at the hospital will try to pressure you to agree to take care of them, but you have to say no.

No way in hell would I enable all the crap you’re enabling. And if your sister wants to control the bedrooms at your parents house, she can take care of your parents! Problem solved! You’re an adult, you have agency. Stop acting like you have no choices in life.

How can they do that without their permission or doc cooperation? You can’t

Generally, there is no lawful obligation for one adult to provide, supply, manage or pay for care, goods and services for another adult.

With parents (depending on your beliefs) there may be a moral obligation to do these things, but that obligation must be weighed in context. A person is not obliged to ruin themselves, become a doormat, sign to voluntarily take on legal obligations they otherwise would not have. This is particularly true where the person who needs help has caused or substantially contributed to their condition, typically by rejecting timely suggestions and offers of more limited aid.

That being said, nobody has a right to an inheritance either, and if somebody wants to run their estate into the ground to maintain control over it they have the right to do that.

Waiting for the (typically inevitable) need for the person to be hospitalized and then need discharge planning, the PP’s suggestion to simply tell the discharge planner that you are not available personally or in terms of assets to contribute anything sounds cruel, and it can have a cruel impact. The question is whether that impact is the result of the non-helper’s decision or the cumulative decisions of the person in need. Typically, both are in play, but it is undeniably true that people frequently dig themselves into their own trouble. Dragging a second person down with them seems attractive, but in fact, a penurious person probably qualifies for government-funded health care and residential placement. It may not be all everybody would have wanted, but it will be something, and it leaves people who otherwise would be getting drowned in the tsunami free to try to help with extras where they can and to be a set of eyes on the caretakers.

This is dreadful stuff. Very often, the person one feels an obligation to is “no longer home.” Short term therapy and mutual support groups can help us see the reality of things and be more objective. There is no benefit in being angry at the needy person. You can’t be half in (for whatever your “share” of assets is) and half out (for caretaking). You can’t control other people. There is no benefit in destroying yourself trying to meet unreasonable demands or share responsibility with people who are not going to perform.

One of my parents was tired of the nursing home and hospitals. They wanted to come home and sit in their easy chair. It was this time of year. Their “plan” was completely unreasonable. They couldn’t walk, could barely stand up, we’re cycling between respiratory emergencies as their kidneys failed. There wasn’t time to get help on a moment’s notice, even if the money was there for anything but a brief respite, which it wasn’t. I promised I’d do what I could when I could. Instead, they rolled over and died that night with their best friend in the room with them. They probably wouldn’t have survived the trip home.

In situations like these, the goal is to be a lifeboat, not a rescue ship, hoping when the end comes to feel that we’ve done what we could, that what we didn’t do was not within our power, and that anybody (including the committee in our head) who says otherwise is ignorant at best and a malicious liar at worst.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Wow, PP. Thank you.

I wonder if your parent sensed the end was near since they talked so specifically of going home. Every time I’ve been with a dying person who can still speak, they mention “home” or have dreams of childhood homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Drop the rope, Drop the rope, Drop the rope.

If you sister won't let you sleep in a bed in a bedroom in the house let your sister manage all of the affairs.

Let your sister pay your hotel bill.

I have a similar ocd sister, and I’ve decided to let them handle certain things. They are blocking progress so no way I’m going to deal with the fallout.

Smart. I have an end point set. Happy about it.

[Anonymous]

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

[Anonymous]

OP, yes, it's horribly frustrating. I had an elderly grandfather with increasing anxiety as he aged. He started calorie restricting my elderly and feable grandmother in the name of being "healthy" to the extent she dropped below 80 lbs. He wouldn't let people in the house because he didn't want their germs. He stopped using soap or letting my grandmother use soap because he didn’t want soap scum to clean. And on and on. He sounded totally normal in a 20 minute conversation, but was completely nuts if you looked closely.

Two of his kids didn't want to intervene at all because it was too much work and he seemed fine on the surface. They kept their heads in the sand. With his anxiety he was 100% against any changes or help, so there was no talking him into anything voluntary. No one could come in his house and he wouldnt go anywhere, so no helper could come in to monitor or support. Even when it got bad none of the kids wanted to separate their parents who had been together 50 years, even though he was slowly starving my grandmother in the name of "health." It was awful.

He was never mentally impaired enough to be declared incompetent, even though he continually made bizarre and dangerous decisions. The one that hurt the most was, after starving my grandmother to death, he refused to have a church service for her as she would have wanted because he would have been expected to make a $500 donation to the church and he thought it was wasteful. (He had several million in the bank.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, yes, it's horribly frustrating. I had an elderly grandfather with increasing anxiety as he aged. He started calorie restricting my elderly and feable grandmother in the name of being "healthy" to the extent she dropped below 80 lbs. He wouldn't let people in the house because he didn't want their germs. He stopped using soap or letting my grandmother use soap because he didn’t want soap scum to clean. And on and on. He sounded totally normal in a 20 minute conversation, but was completely nuts if you looked closely.

Two of his kids didn't want to intervene at all because it was too much work and he seemed fine on the surface. They kept their heads in the sand. With his anxiety he was 100% against any changes or help, so there was no talking him into anything voluntary. No one could come in his house and he wouldnt go anywhere, so no helper could come in to monitor or support. Even when it got bad none of the kids wanted to separate their parents who had been together 50 years, even though he was slowly starving my grandmother in the name of "health." It was awful.

He was never mentally impaired enough to be declared incompetent, even though he continually made bizarre and dangerous decisions. The one that hurt the most was, after starving my grandmother to death, he refused to have a church service for her as she would have wanted because he would have been expected to make a $500 donation to the church and he thought it was wasteful. (He had several million in the bank.)

How exactly do you know this. As someone who has been at this for about 12 years between my parents and inlaws I can tell you that if a person is not mentally impaired enough to be declared incompetent and they are stubborn and bat shit crazy there is nothing you can do. really. i tried it all and did in my health. Plenty of money got thrown at this. Watch the judgment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

Things have worked out regarding places to stay. My point re:meals on wheels is it should NOT BE TERRIBLE. It should NOT BE YESTERDAY’S LUNCH.

You can only set boundaries and prioritize if people are willing to rise up to the occasion. If they are not? Old frail people die and then the state comes after you. The same social workers that claim to want to help file elder abuse charges. Because they don’t want to be blamed for being useless. Get F-ing real

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, yes, it's horribly frustrating. I had an elderly grandfather with increasing anxiety as he aged. He started calorie restricting my elderly and feable grandmother in the name of being "healthy" to the extent she dropped below 80 lbs. He wouldn't let people in the house because he didn't want their germs. He stopped using soap or letting my grandmother use soap because he didn’t want soap scum to clean. And on and on. He sounded totally normal in a 20 minute conversation, but was completely nuts if you looked closely.

Two of his kids didn't want to intervene at all because it was too much work and he seemed fine on the surface. They kept their heads in the sand. With his anxiety he was 100% against any changes or help, so there was no talking him into anything voluntary. No one could come in his house and he wouldnt go anywhere, so no helper could come in to monitor or support. Even when it got bad none of the kids wanted to separate their parents who had been together 50 years, even though he was slowly starving my grandmother in the name of "health." It was awful.

He was never mentally impaired enough to be declared incompetent, even though he continually made bizarre and dangerous decisions. The one that hurt the most was, after starving my grandmother to death, he refused to have a church service for her as she would have wanted because he would have been expected to make a $500 donation to the church and he thought it was wasteful. (He had several million in the bank.)

You get it!! I’m so sorry that you do. People do NOT understand what you and I do, that there is a grey area and that’s where things fall through the cracks in horrible ways. Yes, things can look fine on the surface, but things can be VERY wrong underneath. And people turn on the ones that see it and try to scream ‘fire’ because they want to keep their heads in the sand. Thank GOD my sister’s OCD only extends to her sleeping space. She is so good to my parents. She literally saved my mother’s life regarding this heart attack. So while I get frustrated, I also recognize how good a person she is and how valuable she is. My brother came to visit with $100 in his pocket, an expired driver’s license, and no real motivation to do anything without being told. But he walked 5 miles for a pack of cigarettes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

Things have worked out regarding places to stay. My point re:meals on wheels is it should NOT BE TERRIBLE. It should NOT BE YESTERDAY’S LUNCH.

You can only set boundaries and prioritize if people are willing to rise up to the occasion. If they are not? Old frail people die and then the state comes after you. The same social workers that claim to want to help file elder abuse charges. Because they don’t want to be blamed for being useless. Get F-ing real

Um. What? Are you your parents' legal guardian, with the power to make decisions? If so, use that power. If not, no one is coming after you.

Really, though, your posts indicate that you need to take a step back and care for yourself until your head is level again. I'm sorry for all the stress you're going through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

Things have worked out regarding places to stay. My point re:meals on wheels is it should NOT BE TERRIBLE. It should NOT BE YESTERDAY’S LUNCH.

You can only set boundaries and prioritize if people are willing to rise up to the occasion. If they are not? Old frail people die and then the state comes after you. The same social workers that claim to want to help file elder abuse charges. Because they don’t want to be blamed for being useless. Get F-ing real

Um. What? Are you your parents' legal guardian, with the power to make decisions? If so, use that power. If not, no one is coming after you.

Really, though, your posts indicate that you need to take a step back and care for yourself until your head is level again. I'm sorry for all the stress you're going through.

Not true. You don’t have to be legal guardian to be accused of elder abuse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

Things have worked out regarding places to stay. My point re:meals on wheels is it should NOT BE TERRIBLE. It should NOT BE YESTERDAY’S LUNCH.

You can only set boundaries and prioritize if people are willing to rise up to the occasion. If they are not? Old frail people die and then the state comes after you. The same social workers that claim to want to help file elder abuse charges. Because they don’t want to be blamed for being useless. Get F-ing real

Um. What? Are you your parents' legal guardian, with the power to make decisions? If so, use that power. If not, no one is coming after you.

Really, though, your posts indicate that you need to take a step back and care for yourself until your head is level again. I'm sorry for all the stress you're going through.

Not true. You don’t have to be legal guardian to be accused of elder abuse

Technically, sure, anyone can be accused of anything. Unless there's substance to those claims, they go nowhere.

In what scenario are you envisioning being accused of elder abuse, and those accusations being taken seriously, because you have an elderly parent who can't care for themselves? I'm genuinely asking. "The state" does not have the time nor the resources to "come after" children of every elderly parent who dies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP - I see that you are accomplishing little by planning on going for months at a time. Since you are out there now, have you done a "clear head" assessment of the situation with both parents in terms of: What their basic health conditions are? Ways that they could be managed locally? What their monthly income is versus what their basic monthly expenses are? What exactly is your sister able to do -- to handle her own life? to help handle your parents' affairs?

Between you and your brother, try and get your sister to support the best decision that might be made between the three of you to see who might have Power of Attorney over legal affairs, Health Care Proxy in helping parent make health care decisions or doing so as needed. Can divide up the tasks that might be done to help out from afar and those needing local attention, then perhaps you will find a better balance. Your own children and husband (unless young adults themselves) really need your primary attention.

Then, have you taken the time to see what services they might qualify for in their community - using them is an entirely different questions, but learning what exists could be a start. If they are both really at-risk, then see if they could qualify for a social worker to help guide them through services or could you and your sane brother "together" find a local "care coordinator" with an agency that you would pay to do certain things even if it was just a monthly wellness check to alert you to any serious downturn. If you and your brother could get the parents' OK to take on some basic services, such as one of you taking over their financial affairs at least as far as having access to being able to pay their bills and seeing they are paid. The other might consider getting them set up with meals on wheels, or other area food pantry programs if your sister with OCD could manage to go there for them or just trying two work with the three of them to order food from a local store with delivery so again you have a basic idea of what they are eating and staying within a budget or not.
If the house is not being kept up, then covering the cost of a cleaning person once a month and individual (rather than an expensive lawn service) to do the yard work every so often.

It really sounds as if you may have three persons with issues in the one house as I have seen it happen that parents will not want to leave the home for care they need elsewhere because they fear what will happen to their dependent adult child. So, maybe start asking about services for her, too, if she is limited by her mental health issues. You do have a lot on your plate, but your prolonged presence may not be the needed change agent.

OP here. I truly appreciate your advice but suspect you are a social worker of some kind. The reason I say this is because the answers are standard without a true understanding of family needs.

1) Meals on wheels? Food is terrible and only good for those who truly can't eat anything else due to poverty
2) In my case, my sister is OCD about visitors in her space, but truly a champ reading helping out with everything else regarding my parents
3) My brother is marginally helpful (again my case). He's here as my gift to my parents and that's it

What happened: after my Dad's stroke, my mother fell apart. Her doctor refused to give us any sort of a letter declaring mental incapacity, even while pumping her full of ativan so she could cope. Without that, I could not move their money from a risky fund to a more stable fund. 400K turned into 22K due to the risk. So the medical community failed us. Yes, we called their lawyer. His hands were tied. Yes we called a social worker. Hands were tied. Her doctor had ALL THE CONTROL and refused to help. The situation is solvable 5 years later by again, selling the house, moving them to wherever they want. Rent a similar home in the same community. Move back East (now my mother and father want to do this) to a house my husband and I own. Move to assisted living (which is fine with them too). I could have done without being called every name in the book by friends and family who 'felt bad for my mother' and called me a selfish c*nt. I had to sit and watch them crash and burn because everyone was too busy not seeing reality. There was not ONE AGENCY that could help us. Useless.

So all your health care proxy etc, are grand ideas until people won't cooperate. And trust me they don't. Even after my mother had three bad falls where she broke bones. Even after my father had a major stroke. There were plenty of people who wanted to prey on the situation though. They were in abundance.

DP, but again, OP, you can't set yourself on fire to keep others warm.

Meals on Wheels food is "terrible"? It's food. Stop complaining.

Your sister is OCD about her space but otherwise a champ? Stay in a hotel.

Your brother is only marginally helpful? Assign him small tasks he can do and let it go.

I'm not saying this stuff is easy, because it's not, but you have GOT to do the work of setting boundaries and prioritizing before anything else. If you don't know how far you're willing to go, you'll go too far and get lost.

Things have worked out regarding places to stay. My point re:meals on wheels is it should NOT BE TERRIBLE. It should NOT BE YESTERDAY’S LUNCH.

You can only set boundaries and prioritize if people are willing to rise up to the occasion. If they are not? Old frail people die and then the state comes after you. The same social workers that claim to want to help file elder abuse charges. Because they don’t want to be blamed for being useless. Get F-ing real

Um. What? Are you your parents' legal guardian, with the power to make decisions? If so, use that power. If not, no one is coming after you.

Really, though, your posts indicate that you need to take a step back and care for yourself until your head is level again. I'm sorry for all the stress you're going through.

Not true. You don’t have to be legal guardian to be accused of elder abuse

Technically, sure, anyone can be accused of anything. Unless there's substance to those claims, they go nowhere.

In what scenario are you envisioning being accused of elder abuse, and those accusations being taken seriously, because you have an elderly parent who can't care for themselves? I'm genuinely asking. "The state" does not have the time nor the resources to "come after" children of every elderly parent who dies.

A person most decidedly does not need to be the guardian of, or even a relative of, a person to be liable for elder abuse.

I believe there are jurisdictions that attempt (constitutionally or not) to impose parental support obligations on adult children.

As for charges going away just because they are unfounded, that only happens in fantasyland, and even if it does the accusation itself and/or the defense costs can ruin the accused.

[Anonymous]

Filial Responsibility laws. Surprisingly widespread.

https://www.specialneedsalliance.org/blog/when-parents-cant-pay/