To those that believe the elderly should always make their own decisions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t want to hear this, but you’re also part of the problem.

When your parent has a health issue—and it is a matter of when not if—that is the opening to transfer them to a nursing home. When they need to be discharged, that’s your opening to tell the social worker that you can’t care for them and it’s not safe for them to go home. That is the only time when you can actually move them. Yes, everyone at the hospital will try to pressure you to agree to take care of them, but you have to say no.

No way in hell would I enable all the crap you’re enabling. And if your sister wants to control the bedrooms at your parents house, she can take care of your parents! Problem solved! You’re an adult, you have agency. Stop acting like you have no choices in life.

How can they do that without their permission or doc cooperation? You can’t

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Drop the rope, Drop the rope, Drop the rope.

If you sister won't let you sleep in a bed in a bedroom in the house let your sister manage all of the affairs.

This is where you need to start, and this is the most fixable. Don’t add your sister’s crazy to an already crazy situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can't set yourself on fire to keep other people warm.

I love this aphorism - thank you, PP!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t want to hear this, but you’re also part of the problem.

When your parent has a health issue—and it is a matter of when not if—that is the opening to transfer them to a nursing home. When they need to be discharged, that’s your opening to tell the social worker that you can’t care for them and it’s not safe for them to go home. That is the only time when you can actually move them. Yes, everyone at the hospital will try to pressure you to agree to take care of them, but you have to say no.

No way in hell would I enable all the crap you’re enabling. And if your sister wants to control the bedrooms at your parents house, she can take care of your parents! Problem solved! You’re an adult, you have agency. Stop acting like you have no choices in life.

How can they do that without their permission or doc cooperation? You can’t

Generally, there is no lawful obligation for one adult to provide, supply, manage or pay for care, goods and services for another adult.

With parents (depending on your beliefs) there may be a moral obligation to do these things, but that obligation must be weighed in context. A person is not obliged to ruin themselves, become a doormat, sign to voluntarily take on legal obligations they otherwise would not have. This is particularly true where the person who needs help has caused or substantially contributed to their condition, typically by rejecting timely suggestions and offers of more limited aid.

That being said, nobody has a right to an inheritance either, and if somebody wants to run their estate into the ground to maintain control over it they have the right to do that.

Waiting for the (typically inevitable) need for the person to be hospitalized and then need discharge planning, the PP’s suggestion to simply tell the discharge planner that you are not available personally or in terms of assets to contribute anything sounds cruel, and it can have a cruel impact. The question is whether that impact is the result of the non-helper’s decision or the cumulative decisions of the person in need. Typically, both are in play, but it is undeniably true that people frequently dig themselves into their own trouble. Dragging a second person down with them seems attractive, but in fact, a penurious person probably qualifies for government-funded health care and residential placement. It may not be all everybody would have wanted, but it will be something, and it leaves people who otherwise would be getting drowned in the tsunami free to try to help with extras where they can and to be a set of eyes on the caretakers.

This is dreadful stuff. Very often, the person one feels an obligation to is “no longer home.” Short term therapy and mutual support groups can help us see the reality of things and be more objective. There is no benefit in being angry at the needy person. You can’t be half in (for whatever your “share” of assets is) and half out (for caretaking). You can’t control other people. There is no benefit in destroying yourself trying to meet unreasonable demands or share responsibility with people who are not going to perform.

One of my parents was tired of the nursing home and hospitals. They wanted to come home and sit in their easy chair. It was this time of year. Their “plan” was completely unreasonable. They couldn’t walk, could barely stand up, we’re cycling between respiratory emergencies as their kidneys failed. There wasn’t time to get help on a moment’s notice, even if the money was there for anything but a brief respite, which it wasn’t. I promised I’d do what I could when I could. Instead, they rolled over and died that night with their best friend in the room with them. They probably wouldn’t have survived the trip home.

In situations like these, the goal is to be a lifeboat, not a rescue ship, hoping when the end comes to feel that we’ve done what we could, that what we didn’t do was not within our power, and that anybody (including the committee in our head) who says otherwise is ignorant at best and a malicious liar at worst.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t want to hear this, but you’re also part of the problem.

When your parent has a health issue—and it is a matter of when not if—that is the opening to transfer them to a nursing home. When they need to be discharged, that’s your opening to tell the social worker that you can’t care for them and it’s not safe for them to go home. That is the only time when you can actually move them. Yes, everyone at the hospital will try to pressure you to agree to take care of them, but you have to say no.

No way in hell would I enable all the crap you’re enabling. And if your sister wants to control the bedrooms at your parents house, she can take care of your parents! Problem solved! You’re an adult, you have agency. Stop acting like you have no choices in life.

This is not always that easy. My mom has Alzheimer's and has never been in the hospital. Other than having dementia she is healthy as a horse. We were lucky that she had already downsized and had the resources for assisted living. But moving her in was still tough. If she had been 100% opposed it would have been really hard to do. As it is she regularly pulls the fire alarm trying to get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You don’t want to hear this, but you’re also part of the problem.

When your parent has a health issue—and it is a matter of when not if—that is the opening to transfer them to a nursing home. When they need to be discharged, that’s your opening to tell the social worker that you can’t care for them and it’s not safe for them to go home. That is the only time when you can actually move them. Yes, everyone at the hospital will try to pressure you to agree to take care of them, but you have to say no.

No way in hell would I enable all the crap you’re enabling. And if your sister wants to control the bedrooms at your parents house, she can take care of your parents! Problem solved! You’re an adult, you have agency. Stop acting like you have no choices in life.

How can they do that without their permission or doc cooperation? You can’t

Generally, there is no lawful obligation for one adult to provide, supply, manage or pay for care, goods and services for another adult.

With parents (depending on your beliefs) there may be a moral obligation to do these things, but that obligation must be weighed in context. A person is not obliged to ruin themselves, become a doormat, sign to voluntarily take on legal obligations they otherwise would not have. This is particularly true where the person who needs help has caused or substantially contributed to their condition, typically by rejecting timely suggestions and offers of more limited aid.

That being said, nobody has a right to an inheritance either, and if somebody wants to run their estate into the ground to maintain control over it they have the right to do that.

Waiting for the (typically inevitable) need for the person to be hospitalized and then need discharge planning, the PP’s suggestion to simply tell the discharge planner that you are not available personally or in terms of assets to contribute anything sounds cruel, and it can have a cruel impact. The question is whether that impact is the result of the non-helper’s decision or the cumulative decisions of the person in need. Typically, both are in play, but it is undeniably true that people frequently dig themselves into their own trouble. Dragging a second person down with them seems attractive, but in fact, a penurious person probably qualifies for government-funded health care and residential placement. It may not be all everybody would have wanted, but it will be something, and it leaves people who otherwise would be getting drowned in the tsunami free to try to help with extras where they can and to be a set of eyes on the caretakers.

This is dreadful stuff. Very often, the person one feels an obligation to is “no longer home.” Short term therapy and mutual support groups can help us see the reality of things and be more objective. There is no benefit in being angry at the needy person. You can’t be half in (for whatever your “share” of assets is) and half out (for caretaking). You can’t control other people. There is no benefit in destroying yourself trying to meet unreasonable demands or share responsibility with people who are not going to perform.

One of my parents was tired of the nursing home and hospitals. They wanted to come home and sit in their easy chair. It was this time of year. Their “plan” was completely unreasonable. They couldn’t walk, could barely stand up, we’re cycling between respiratory emergencies as their kidneys failed. There wasn’t time to get help on a moment’s notice, even if the money was there for anything but a brief respite, which it wasn’t. I promised I’d do what I could when I could. Instead, they rolled over and died that night with their best friend in the room with them. They probably wouldn’t have survived the trip home.

In situations like these, the goal is to be a lifeboat, not a rescue ship, hoping when the end comes to feel that we’ve done what we could, that what we didn’t do was not within our power, and that anybody (including the committee in our head) who says otherwise is ignorant at best and a malicious liar at worst.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Wow, pp. This is something I need to bookmark for later years. Thanks for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why couldn’t you wait until after Christmas to leave your kids? Your parents should be ashamed of themselves. Money and help should go to the youngest generation.

They are adults

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh and I will add, I absolutely agree with you aging in place is BS unless the person is cognitively sharp the whole time. I could rant for days about the living hell it has been being the family member who lives closest and we may move, since it has been a decade of this hell already.

OP here. A decade? JFC. My cousin had a stroke over doing that. I feel you PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your sister live there? How can she tell you where you can or can’t sleep? I’m truly curious.

She does. She’s very OCD.

[Anonymous]

"...when the end comes to feel that we’ve done what we could, that what we didn’t do was not within our power, and that anybody (including the committee in our head) who says otherwise is ignorant at best and a malicious liar at worst."

This struck a chord with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your sister live there? How can she tell you where you can or can’t sleep? I’m truly curious.

She does. She’s very OCD.

Then why are you there?

[Anonymous]

A social worker recently told a friend of mine that sometimes the chips have to fall where they fall. Her parents are still driving but are having cognitive decline but not enough for a doctor to sign them off as incompetent. It seems insane but she can't do anything.

The advice given was that sometimes people end up having accidents or a disaster before it becomes obvious that they can't do it and take care of themselves anymore.

Its a sh!tshow, that's for sure. I think I would telling the sister to simply cope with her OCD and use that second bedroom. You cannot be expected to sleep on a reclining chair. You are going to break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does your sister live there? How can she tell you where you can or can’t sleep? I’m truly curious.

She does. She’s very OCD.

Then why are you there?

Because they are my parents. And I can sleep on a couch if needed for a few months

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A social worker recently told a friend of mine that sometimes the chips have to fall where they fall. Her parents are still driving but are having cognitive decline but not enough for a doctor to sign them off as incompetent. It seems insane but she can't do anything.

The advice given was that sometimes people end up having accidents or a disaster before it becomes obvious that they can't do it and take care of themselves anymore.

Its a sh!tshow, that's for sure. I think I would telling the sister to simply cope with her OCD and use that second bedroom. You cannot be expected to sleep on a reclining chair. You are going to break.

Thank you. This is very true. I'll leave before I break, trust me. My brother just told me he can take family leave and will so that's going to help.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP,

I’m so sorry this is your situation. It’s a terrible spot to be in.