Talking to parents of non-binary kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has switched pronouns a couple of times. He is not out to everyone. I am fully on board with him no matter what- I love him, not his gender. But I use she when I run into someone at the grocery store who is a casual acquaintance because my kid is not out to everyone and it isn't up to me to decide who gets to know what and when. I'm following his lead and supporting him how he is asking me to support him. Don't read anything else into it.

You just used he and she to reference to a child in one post.

DP: That was kind of the point--if her DC is not out as a "he" to everyone, the parent uses their prior pronoun.

Mom said child has switched pronouns a couple of times. Seems as if the child is even confused which again is the danger of this happening at such a young age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has switched pronouns a couple of times. He is not out to everyone. I am fully on board with him no matter what- I love him, not his gender. But I use she when I run into someone at the grocery store who is a casual acquaintance because my kid is not out to everyone and it isn't up to me to decide who gets to know what and when. I'm following his lead and supporting him how he is asking me to support him. Don't read anything else into it.

You just used he and she to reference to a child in one post.

DP: That was kind of the point--if her DC is not out as a "he" to everyone, the parent uses their prior pronoun.

Mom said child has switched pronouns a couple of times. Seems as if the child is even confused which again is the danger of this happening at such a young age.

Why is this a "danger" though? It's called exploration. Child isn't taking hormones, having surgery, they are questioning their gender identity. You can pretend it's not happening, you can force them to not tell you, but you can't control their brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has switched pronouns a couple of times. He is not out to everyone. I am fully on board with him no matter what- I love him, not his gender. But I use she when I run into someone at the grocery store who is a casual acquaintance because my kid is not out to everyone and it isn't up to me to decide who gets to know what and when. I'm following his lead and supporting him how he is asking me to support him. Don't read anything else into it.

You just used he and she to reference to a child in one post.

DP: That was kind of the point--if her DC is not out as a "he" to everyone, the parent uses their prior pronoun.

Mom said child has switched pronouns a couple of times. Seems as if the child is even confused which again is the danger of this happening at such a young age.

Why is this a "danger" though? It's called exploration. Child isn't taking hormones, having surgery, they are questioning their gender identity. You can pretend it's not happening, you can force them to not tell you, but you can't control their brain.

+1

This child would be "confused" regardless of what pronouns they were using and whether they were open with their family about that confusion. I would certainly prefer as a parent to preserve the open communication and the freedom to explore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Follow the parents lead or try to use first names. It’s possible that they are saying it out of habit. It’s easy to slip when you have been saying she for 19 years and referring to your own kid. Don’t assume anything.

The bolded is very true. In my experience it is a LOT easier for people who have not know someone for a long time to use the preferred pronoun. As a parent, I slip a LOT. And it isn't because I am unsupportive. It is just an incredibly ingrained habit and way of viewing someone. I'm grateful my child understands this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The good news is "they" is a rather innocuous pronoun and people would talk that way without all the recent fuss by kids seeking attention.

"They" is not exactly innocuous. It leads to endless confusion about whether the speaker is referring to one person or more than one person. If we could come up with a better set of neutral singular pronouns than Ze or Xi ("xyrs"? "xemself"?), that'd be ideal.

[Anonymous]

I think this thread just demonstrates how impressionable young people are to faddish trends. I fully support trans adults and people who truly feel biologically the other sex, and who have had time to fully formulate this decision, but most of the 14 year olds switching their pronouns, or proclaiming they’re non binary or pan sexual, are doing so for attention. Everything is so fking annoying these days. Everyone is consistently outraged, because they follow the groupthink that says they must kow to others around them who are also similarly triggered and outraged at all times over any small offense.

And yes, there are many in tune and hip parents willing to support anything under the sun. I guess I would call my kids by a fking pronoun if it made them feel better, but I would also ask them to search deeply. I’m not a curmudgeon nor am trying to restrain their identity. I just think it’s absurd having seen so many young kids now claim their non-binary and this and that. I think it’s just evidence of a culture somewhat adrift.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has switched pronouns a couple of times. He is not out to everyone. I am fully on board with him no matter what- I love him, not his gender. But I use she when I run into someone at the grocery store who is a casual acquaintance because my kid is not out to everyone and it isn't up to me to decide who gets to know what and when. I'm following his lead and supporting him how he is asking me to support him. Don't read anything else into it.

You just used he and she to reference to a child in one post.

Yes, and that very post carefully explained exactly why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher, we are told to follow the parents lead as a way to respect the privacy of the child. To clarify, when speaking directly to the child we use their preferred pronouns. That is what I do.

How often do you use "they" when speaking directly to someone? Isn't this more about how you speak about someone not there? When it's direct it's "you" not he/she/they.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our kid uses "they" and a preferred name with friends/outside the house, but keeps their old name/pronoun with us. I think it's to hold onto a familiar identity as they explore new identity outside. We used the new name/pronoun for awhile but then shifted when relatives visited and then they didn't ask to go back to it. So I think there's a whole range--not just keeping it secret from family.

May I ask you an honest question? Why do you allow this?

Allow what? Allow them to explore their identity? Why would I try to control that?

Well, gee, I don't know. Perhaps because the role of a parent is to provide guidance, perspective, wisdom and experience, rather than turn them over to the wilds of the internet and fads of the day, to "explore their identity?" Not to mention, keeping your kid grounded in reality?

I don't see it the way you do. Societies have had to work very hard to enforce gender norms and adolescence has always been a time for identity exploration. There's just less shame around gender variance now. Is it a little faddish? Maybe. For some kids is it genuine? Yes. I don't see it as a big deal. My kid does chores, does excellent in school, is honest and trustworthy, is kind etc. I think I'm doing a decent job as a parent, and I have two older kids launched successfully as well. I think they are all grounded in reality just fine. We've talked about their gender identity and what they think about it. I've asked questions. It's not my role to lay down the law about how they feel about themselves and who they are, rather to be a sounding board for what they are thinking.
I disagree with your views on my parenting and think that I'm providing perspective and experience--including my experience with many friends on the LGTBQ+ spectrum.

What a lovely response!

Agree! Parent to a trans teen (who's now a legal adult) and the above completely aligns with our experience. Another note: when my child is present, I will 100% use correct pronouns. Sure, I occasionally mess up, but I apologize & try harder (my child does not just roll with deadname/old pronouns as it's hurtful & contributes to gender dysphoria). I sometimes roll with the dead name/pronouns if it's someone I don't have the time or energy to educate, and my child is not present. I wouldn't read into that any sense of our family not 'being on board' or secretly wanting to preserve prior identity. It's still fairly stigmatized, even if "faddish," so I choose the conversations I'd like to have with closer friends & family to more deeply explain the situation. I don't always want to do the emotional work of fleshing out my child's personal, private identity to people outside our inner circle. For this reason, I think my child is unlikely to move back home after college. I do not think the attention attached to gender nonconformity in our child's case is desired. My child has told me that they'd like to be perceived as the new gender & to "pass," contrary to what some resistant PPs seem to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just use their name. Two friends have kids that have picked really weird names (like Unicorn), so we sound like idiots talking about "Unicorn", but it is what it is.

This. This is why parents shouldn't cave to the fads of gender identity.

When I was 12, I got super into skateboarding. It was my entire identity. I would have been thrilled if I could insist that every call me Thrasher, instead of my given name, and refer to me as 'the skateboarder' when referring to me in the 3rd person.

But that would have been lunacy.

Calling a kid 'Unicorn' when their name is Jill is just as crazy. And having to go back and forth between multiple names and pronouns is just as stupid.

This is out of control

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just use their name. Two friends have kids that have picked really weird names (like Unicorn), so we sound like idiots talking about "Unicorn", but it is what it is.

This. This is why parents shouldn't cave to the fads of gender identity.

When I was 12, I got super into skateboarding. It was my entire identity. I would have been thrilled if I could insist that every call me Thrasher, instead of my given name, and refer to me as 'the skateboarder' when referring to me in the 3rd person.

But that would have been lunacy.

Calling a kid 'Unicorn' when their name is Jill is just as crazy. And having to go back and forth between multiple names and pronouns is just as stupid.

This is out of control

+1.

One of DD's friend has shared that she's non-binary but does not like 'they.'. So instead, he has asked that we alternate between he/she & him/her. But these kids have the audacity to call us out if we accidentally use 'he' 2 times in a row, or don't use a statement like "She left his phone on the counter"

I support exploring yourself at this age, but there is also so much you can expect from people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just use their name. Two friends have kids that have picked really weird names (like Unicorn), so we sound like idiots talking about "Unicorn", but it is what it is.

This. This is why parents shouldn't cave to the fads of gender identity.

When I was 12, I got super into skateboarding. It was my entire identity. I would have been thrilled if I could insist that every call me Thrasher, instead of my given name, and refer to me as 'the skateboarder' when referring to me in the 3rd person.

But that would have been lunacy.

Calling a kid 'Unicorn' when their name is Jill is just as crazy. And having to go back and forth between multiple names and pronouns is just as stupid.

This is out of control

+1.

One of DD's friend has shared that she's non-binary but does not like 'they.'. So instead, he has asked that we alternate between he/she & him/her. But these kids have the audacity to call us out if we accidentally use 'he' 2 times in a row, or don't use a statement like "She left his phone on the counter"

I support exploring yourself at this age, but there is also so much you can expect from people

Tweens/teens are sometimes self-centered and a little ridiculous. News at 11.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of discussion about teens and gender lately, here’s a situation I have encountered numerous times so assume others have as well and curious what you do. My 19 yo dd has a number of friends and acquaintances who have indicated publicly that their preferred pronoun is “they.” Great, I’m totally on board and do my best to remember. But I’ve noticed in every single case when I bump into their parents and we’re doing the quick check in on life/kids the parents continue to use “she.” We live in a pretty progressive area, these are all parents who seem pretty thoughtful and open-minded. My workaround is just to always refer to their kid by first name since it feels strange to essentially contradict a parent on their kids’ identity. But avoiding pronouns gets clunky too. How do/would you handle?

Have run into the same issue.

Frankly, the whole is just so tiresome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just use their name. Two friends have kids that have picked really weird names (like Unicorn), so we sound like idiots talking about "Unicorn", but it is what it is.

This. This is why parents shouldn't cave to the fads of gender identity.

When I was 12, I got super into skateboarding. It was my entire identity. I would have been thrilled if I could insist that every call me Thrasher, instead of my given name, and refer to me as 'the skateboarder' when referring to me in the 3rd person.

But that would have been lunacy.

Calling a kid 'Unicorn' when their name is Jill is just as crazy. And having to go back and forth between multiple names and pronouns is just as stupid.

This is out of control

+1.

One of DD's friend has shared that she's non-binary but does not like 'they.'. So instead, he has asked that we alternate between he/she & him/her. But these kids have the audacity to call us out if we accidentally use 'he' 2 times in a row, or don't use a statement like "She left his phone on the counter"

I support exploring yourself at this age, but there is also so much you can expect from people

Tweens/teens are sometimes self-centered and a little ridiculous. News at 11.

Agreed. But in all other areas of their self-centeredness (is that a word?) and ridiculousness, we don't indulge it. We tell them they are being ridiculous.

But god forbid we push back on pronouns...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just use their name. Two friends have kids that have picked really weird names (like Unicorn), so we sound like idiots talking about "Unicorn", but it is what it is.

This. This is why parents shouldn't cave to the fads of gender identity.

When I was 12, I got super into skateboarding. It was my entire identity. I would have been thrilled if I could insist that every call me Thrasher, instead of my given name, and refer to me as 'the skateboarder' when referring to me in the 3rd person.

But that would have been lunacy.

Calling a kid 'Unicorn' when their name is Jill is just as crazy. And having to go back and forth between multiple names and pronouns is just as stupid.

This is out of control

+1.

One of DD's friend has shared that she's non-binary but does not like 'they.'. So instead, he has asked that we alternate between he/she & him/her. But these kids have the audacity to call us out if we accidentally use 'he' 2 times in a row, or don't use a statement like "She left his phone on the counter"

I support exploring yourself at this age, but there is also so much you can expect from people

Tweens/teens are sometimes self-centered and a little ridiculous. News at 11.

Agreed. But in all other areas of their self-centeredness (is that a word?) and ridiculousness, we don't indulge it. We tell them they are being ridiculous.

But god forbid we push back on pronouns...

I wish you much luck when your child comes home and tells you they are non-binary and want to change their pronouns and you tell them no.