Anyone else surprised by a lack of interest in William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We are in-state at a public hs and our counselor told us that UVA, VA TECH, JMU and VCU were all "significantly" more popular than WM. We were really surprised given where WM is ranked.

This is very true.

By the numbers, that's just not the case. It is possible that that is true at your school and what the kids are telling your counselor, so I'm not disputing that your counselor thinks that. I think some of this is just regional. A friend who lives near Charlottesville told me that everyone they know wants VT. That's not the case here in NoVa and I have no idea what Tidewater kids want or what Bristol kids want, and so on. But the number of applicants per spot does not indicate that they are more popular, much less "significantly" so.

DP. Actually, that *does* seem to be the case in NoVA, at least among the students at my kid's high school and kids he knows on sports teams, etc. VT seems to be the #1 choice for so many of these students.

It's really not important what people on this board (including me) have to say. This is all anecdotal. The kids at my DS's school in NoVa mostly consider VT a backup, mostly for kids who won't get into UVa. That is also just anecdotal. Again, the numbers are what matter.

True, but the numbers continue to show that VT is no one's "backup". Every year, parents are *shocked* that their kids did not get into VT when they assumed they would. Also, many kids prefer VT to UVA and never even apply (to UVA).

It wasn't for my DS. He's a freshman at W&M and did not get into VT, but he got into W&M (obviously) and UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in-state at a public hs and our counselor told us that UVA, VA TECH, JMU and VCU were all "significantly" more popular than WM. We were really surprised given where WM is ranked.

This is very true.

By the numbers, that's just not the case. It is possible that that is true at your school and what the kids are telling your counselor, so I'm not disputing that your counselor thinks that. I think some of this is just regional. A friend who lives near Charlottesville told me that everyone they know wants VT. That's not the case here in NoVa and I have no idea what Tidewater kids want or what Bristol kids want, and so on. But the number of applicants per spot does not indicate that they are more popular, much less "significantly" so.

DP. Actually, that *does* seem to be the case in NoVA, at least among the students at my kid's high school and kids he knows on sports teams, etc. VT seems to be the #1 choice for so many of these students.

It's really not important what people on this board (including me) have to say. This is all anecdotal. The kids at my DS's school in NoVa mostly consider VT a backup, mostly for kids who won't get into UVa. That is also just anecdotal. Again, the numbers are what matter.

True, but the numbers continue to show that VT is no one's "backup". Every year, parents are *shocked* that their kids did not get into VT when they assumed they would. Also, many kids prefer VT to UVA and never even apply (to UVA).

It wasn't for my DS. He's a freshman at W&M and did not get into VT, but he got into W&M (obviously) and UVA.

What major did he apply to at VT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think William and Mary is a love it or hate it place - and both my kids hated it because of the vibe ((seemed) not fun, very academic, town is touristy and not much to do, a lot of talk about pressure and how to relieve stress by our tour guide) - this vibe even carried over in the video they played on the tour a few years ago). All of this said, the school knows who it is and I like that about it - they don't try to pretend to be something they are not to appease the US News BS. Other institutions with similar reputations (U of C) are trying to seem cooler and more relevant to keep their ratings up - and somehow that seems sad to me. Students of all types need a home and that's why when the program works for a W&M student they hit it out of the park.

All true. Virginia is fortunate to have the only public in the United States that, in essence, is a SLAC. That will appeal to those who are going to college to study and learn versus the rah-rah partiers. It's all a good thing. The Commonwealth has 30 public institutions (including community college) to choose from. There is something for everyone.

Not to nitpick, BUT that's not quite true. St Mary's (MD), College of NJ and UNC Asheville come to mind as others. Probably more.

Only US public National (vs regional or SLAC) U.

William and Mary may be the only national public university that is similar in undergraduate enrollment (and residential nature) to many of the selective, prestigious privates (5-10K). For undergraduate study, almost all prestigious public schools are significantly larger (and less residential) than their private counterparts. William and Mary couples this with having more focus on undergraduate study (and faculty mentored research) rather than graduate programs and sponsored research.

W&M is comparable to Dartmouth and Rice in that regard (although less recognized and with less research of course), but I don't think you can compare it to the rest of the T20 just because its undergraduate population sizes are similar. All the T20s sans Dartmouth are major research universities. Columbia for example has a undergrad population of 6k and a grad population of 26k.

Comparing W&M to Dartmouth and Rice is laughable.

True but Dartmouth and Rice are still good schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are in-state at a public hs and our counselor told us that UVA, VA TECH, JMU and VCU were all "significantly" more popular than WM. We were really surprised given where WM is ranked.

This is very true.

By the numbers, that's just not the case. It is possible that that is true at your school and what the kids are telling your counselor, so I'm not disputing that your counselor thinks that. I think some of this is just regional. A friend who lives near Charlottesville told me that everyone they know wants VT. That's not the case here in NoVa and I have no idea what Tidewater kids want or what Bristol kids want, and so on. But the number of applicants per spot does not indicate that they are more popular, much less "significantly" so.

DP. Actually, that *does* seem to be the case in NoVA, at least among the students at my kid's high school and kids he knows on sports teams, etc. VT seems to be the #1 choice for so many of these students.

It's really not important what people on this board (including me) have to say. This is all anecdotal. The kids at my DS's school in NoVa mostly consider VT a backup, mostly for kids who won't get into UVa. That is also just anecdotal. Again, the numbers are what matter.

True, but the numbers continue to show that VT is no one's "backup". Every year, parents are *shocked* that their kids did not get into VT when they assumed they would. Also, many kids prefer VT to UVA and never even apply (to UVA).

It wasn't for my DS. He's a freshman at W&M and did not get into VT, but he got into W&M (obviously) and UVA.

What major did he apply to at VT?

Something in the Pamplin School of Business - I don't remember which specific major he selected. He loves W&M and if he had gotten into VT, he would have picked W&M so it all works out in the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think William and Mary is a love it or hate it place - and both my kids hated it because of the vibe ((seemed) not fun, very academic, town is touristy and not much to do, a lot of talk about pressure and how to relieve stress by our tour guide) - this vibe even carried over in the video they played on the tour a few years ago). All of this said, the school knows who it is and I like that about it - they don't try to pretend to be something they are not to appease the US News BS. Other institutions with similar reputations (U of C) are trying to seem cooler and more relevant to keep their ratings up - and somehow that seems sad to me. Students of all types need a home and that's why when the program works for a W&M student they hit it out of the park.

All true. Virginia is fortunate to have the only public in the United States that, in essence, is a SLAC. That will appeal to those who are going to college to study and learn versus the rah-rah partiers. It's all a good thing. The Commonwealth has 30 public institutions (including community college) to choose from. There is something for everyone.

Not to nitpick, BUT that's not quite true. St Mary's (MD), College of NJ and UNC Asheville come to mind as others. Probably more.

Only US public National (vs regional or SLAC) U.

William and Mary may be the only national public university that is similar in undergraduate enrollment (and residential nature) to many of the selective, prestigious privates (5-10K). For undergraduate study, almost all prestigious public schools are significantly larger (and less residential) than their private counterparts. William and Mary couples this with having more focus on undergraduate study (and faculty mentored research) rather than graduate programs and sponsored research.

W&M is comparable to Dartmouth and Rice in that regard (although less recognized and with less research of course), but I don't think you can compare it to the rest of the T20 just because its undergraduate population sizes are similar. All the T20s sans Dartmouth are major research universities. Columbia for example has a undergrad population of 6k and a grad population of 26k.

Comparing W&M to Dartmouth and Rice is laughable.

Not if you have any semblance of reading comprehensive. The comparison here is on school size, not prestige.

That's a stretch.

W&M doesn't belong in the same sentence with Dartmouth or Rice, regardless of "context."

DCUM boosters. Yeesh.

I’m not from the area & have no connection to W&M, but I’d say you are trying extra hard to make a mountain of difference out of molehill.

The students & faculty at these schools are interchangeable. Your exaggerated difference is like saying a Ferrari that can go 185 mph is WAY better than a Maserati that can only go 180 mph.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

[Anonymous]

W&M had a 15% increase in ED applications this year and 45% increase over the past two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

Uh... so many things in this to refute. So are University of Alabama, University of Idaho, etc. There's nothing automatically magical about being a flagship. And not everyone who goes to college is interested in CS/Engineering so that's an odd point to make. And it would probably be news to the admissions committee and all the OOS students who apply there every year that it doesn't get attention outside of VA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

Uh... so many things in this to refute. So are University of Alabama, University of Idaho, etc. There's nothing automatically magical about being a flagship. And not everyone who goes to college is interested in CS/Engineering so that's an odd point to make. And it would probably be news to the admissions committee and all the OOS students who apply there every year that it doesn't get attention outside of VA.

UCLA and Georgia Tech are not flagships. No one should consider them.

[Anonymous]

From two hours ago "Numbers indicate that W&M is the top choice for many prospective students"

https://news.wm.edu/2023/12/20/william-mary-sees-another-significant-increase-in-early-decision-applications/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think William and Mary is a love it or hate it place - and both my kids hated it because of the vibe ((seemed) not fun, very academic, town is touristy and not much to do, a lot of talk about pressure and how to relieve stress by our tour guide) - this vibe even carried over in the video they played on the tour a few years ago). All of this said, the school knows who it is and I like that about it - they don't try to pretend to be something they are not to appease the US News BS. Other institutions with similar reputations (U of C) are trying to seem cooler and more relevant to keep their ratings up - and somehow that seems sad to me. Students of all types need a home and that's why when the program works for a W&M student they hit it out of the park.

All true. Virginia is fortunate to have the only public in the United States that, in essence, is a SLAC. That will appeal to those who are going to college to study and learn versus the rah-rah partiers. It's all a good thing. The Commonwealth has 30 public institutions (including community college) to choose from. There is something for everyone.

Not to nitpick, BUT that's not quite true. St Mary's (MD), College of NJ and UNC Asheville come to mind as others. Probably more.

Only US public National (vs regional or SLAC) U.

William and Mary may be the only national public university that is similar in undergraduate enrollment (and residential nature) to many of the selective, prestigious privates (5-10K). For undergraduate study, almost all prestigious public schools are significantly larger (and less residential) than their private counterparts. William and Mary couples this with having more focus on undergraduate study (and faculty mentored research) rather than graduate programs and sponsored research.

W&M is comparable to Dartmouth and Rice in that regard (although less recognized and with less research of course), but I don't think you can compare it to the rest of the T20 just because its undergraduate population sizes are similar. All the T20s sans Dartmouth are major research universities. Columbia for example has a undergrad population of 6k and a grad population of 26k.

Comparing W&M to Dartmouth and Rice is laughable.

DP. I'm afraid so. Someone has quite the inflated view of W&M...

Not really. I've had one DC go to WM and 2 go to schools comparable or better than Dartmouth/Rice, and the WM kid had just as good an education and post-grad outcome as the other 2 kids.

WM is a bargain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

Uh... so many things in this to refute. So are University of Alabama, University of Idaho, etc. There's nothing automatically magical about being a flagship. And not everyone who goes to college is interested in CS/Engineering so that's an odd point to make. And it would probably be news to the admissions committee and all the OOS students who apply there every year that it doesn't get attention outside of VA.

UCLA and Georgia Tech are not flagships. No one should consider them.

Two exceptional cases.
California is such a huge state, UCLA and UCB are both considered flaships, one in the north and one in the south.
they ranked similarly, too.

GT is de facto flagship of Georgia.
Or you can consider UVA = UGA and VT = GT

W&M is nobody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

Uh... so many things in this to refute. So are University of Alabama, University of Idaho, etc. There's nothing automatically magical about being a flagship. And not everyone who goes to college is interested in CS/Engineering so that's an odd point to make. And it would probably be news to the admissions committee and all the OOS students who apply there every year that it doesn't get attention outside of VA.

UCLA and Georgia Tech are not flagships. No one should consider them.

Two exceptional cases.
California is such a huge state, UCLA and UCB are both considered flaships, one in the north and one in the south.
they ranked similarly, too.

GT is de facto flagship of Georgia.
Or you can consider UVA = UGA and VT = GT

W&M is nobody.

UVA=UGA
W&M=W&L

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. A 2nd tier state school.

I love how someone on here keeps using this phrase as if "state school" is an insult. Particularly since it also applies to UC Berkeley, UVa, etc.

uh.. it's actually my point
Those are at least state flagships.
W&M is a 2nd tier state school.
VT at least rivals UVA for CS/Engineering.
Not surprised at all it doesn't get any attention outside of VA

Uh... so many things in this to refute. So are University of Alabama, University of Idaho, etc. There's nothing automatically magical about being a flagship. And not everyone who goes to college is interested in CS/Engineering so that's an odd point to make. And it would probably be news to the admissions committee and all the OOS students who apply there every year that it doesn't get attention outside of VA.

UCLA and Georgia Tech are not flagships. No one should consider them.

Two exceptional cases.
California is such a huge state, UCLA and UCB are both considered flaships, one in the north and one in the south.
they ranked similarly, too.

GT is de facto flagship of Georgia.
Or you can consider UVA = UGA and VT = GT

W&M is nobody.

It seems really important to you to keep believing this despite evidence so go right ahead. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about…something.