US vs Thailand

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I really don't think most people have seen the brackets. The US is in Group F with Chile, Sweden, and Thailand. The top TWO teams advance. If a team wins all three matches there are NO goal differential used. They would have 9 points (3 points for a win and 1 for a tie). If the US beats Sweden they will end up in first place. If the US loses to Sweden they will end up in second place and advance. The ONLY scenario where goal differential matters is if they tie Sweden. Then they would use goal differential. And because there are 24 teams to start and they have to go down to 16 teams then 4 third place teams will advance as well. This is different than World Cup where 32 teams start and only the top two teams advance.

However, if you look at the knock out stage, the US got a really easy draw! 24 teams start out
First place of Group F (US, Sweden, Thailand, Chile) plays 2nd place team of Group B (Germany, Spain, South Africa, China)

The SECOND place team in Group F will play the SECOND place team of E (New Zealand, Cameron, Canada, Netherlands). This is different than in the men's word cup because twop third place teams will advance.

So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals. And the celebrating that went along with it is ridiculous.

There is always a reason to score more goals if you are a professional player, regardless of whether goal differential will come into play for advancement. Every player in the World Cup is trying to build their resume to help with future contracts and endorsement deals. Many of them will get bonuses based on honors like Golden Boot or Golden Ball. Others will just be adding to their soccer resume, and a high number of total goals scored in a WC will be a very nice thing to list so you have to get them when you can. Others, like Morgan, will be shooting for US or world records in categories like most goals scored in a game, most goals scored in a WC, and most goals scored in a career. All of those things will not just help for future earnings and jobs after they retire, but also for posterity.

Soooo it wasn't about goal differential and advancing to them at all then. It was about personal achievements and incentives. Got it.

There’s truth to both, and both are legitimate reasons to drive up the score. The belief that team sports are only about the team and not the individuals that comprise the team is naive.

When one is celebrating a 9th or 10th goal it is no longer about celebrating advancing. It is celebrating PERSONAL achievement and that is why the celebrations were over the top and selfish.

The celebrations are a separate issue, and I happen to agree with you on that front. But my comments were in response to this comment "So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals." As stated above, there are many good reasons for players to try to score when they can.

And I have repeatedly stated over and over it isn’t about the goals. There is only one poster in here who has banged the pull back drum and they are not wrong in Spirit just pragmatism. The US will not need that level of differential to advance so the argument does ring a bit hollow even if it is true. But the defenders are conflating attacks on the celebrations as attacks on the aggressiveness and box score. They are not the same issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think most people have seen the brackets. The US is in Group F with Chile, Sweden, and Thailand. The top TWO teams advance. If a team wins all three matches there are NO goal differential used. They would have 9 points (3 points for a win and 1 for a tie). If the US beats Sweden they will end up in first place. If the US loses to Sweden they will end up in second place and advance. The ONLY scenario where goal differential matters is if they tie Sweden. Then they would use goal differential. And because there are 24 teams to start and they have to go down to 16 teams then 4 third place teams will advance as well. This is different than World Cup where 32 teams start and only the top two teams advance.

However, if you look at the knock out stage, the US got a really easy draw! 24 teams start out
First place of Group F (US, Sweden, Thailand, Chile) plays 2nd place team of Group B (Germany, Spain, South Africa, China)

The SECOND place team in Group F will play the SECOND place team of E (New Zealand, Cameron, Canada, Netherlands). This is different than in the men's word cup because twop third place teams will advance.

So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals. And the celebrating that went along with it is ridiculous.

There is always a reason to score more goals if you are a professional player, regardless of whether goal differential will come into play for advancement. Every player in the World Cup is trying to build their resume to help with future contracts and endorsement deals. Many of them will get bonuses based on honors like Golden Boot or Golden Ball. Others will just be adding to their soccer resume, and a high number of total goals scored in a WC will be a very nice thing to list so you have to get them when you can. Others, like Morgan, will be shooting for US or world records in categories like most goals scored in a game, most goals scored in a WC, and most goals scored in a career. All of those things will not just help for future earnings and jobs after they retire, but also for posterity.

Soooo it wasn't about goal differential and advancing to them at all then. It was about personal achievements and incentives. Got it.

There’s truth to both, and both are legitimate reasons to drive up the score. The belief that team sports are only about the team and not the individuals that comprise the team is naive.

When one is celebrating a 9th or 10th goal it is no longer about celebrating advancing. It is celebrating PERSONAL achievement and that is why the celebrations were over the top and selfish.

I’m just talking about reasons for driving up the score, not how the goals were celebrated. But on that front, many athletes celebrate after every single goal they score, important games or not.

Everyone understands the point of driving up the score. It is not really a point of debate or really the crux of the criticism the team is facing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support the women’s team but I do worry that whether or not people agree with how this particular game was played/celebrated, the debate will ultimately detract from their victories moving forward, no matter how well they play. I’ll also be curious to see how individual players choose to celebrate in future games. Will they give in to the detractors or will they continue to express themselves freely? Should be interesting.

I think future games will be far more competitive and this will not be an issue. But they did bring some unnecessary scrutiny on themselves in an otherwise flawless opening game.

But it is about context. I think most felt the over/under on this game against Thailand would have been at 5. So they were heavy favorites going in so act like it when you do win and you were expected to win big. This was not 13-0 against Germany so pump the breaks.

People are the worst. They brought this on themselves?! No! Busybody snowflakes are the ones melting down over this. They are the only ones with a problem. Why is everyone obsessed with controlling women.

Right, because it seems like most people are concerned primarily with the goal celebration choices and not the high score. When you focus on that, and say that the players should have reacted differently than they did, you’re basically saying that the women should’ve conducted themselves with more restraint. Despite the fact that this is the pinnacle of their careers, adrenaline is flowing, their team is advancing, and the player is one of the best in the world, restrain yourself. It’s not dignified or ladylike to show such exuberance toward your achievement without considering how this might affect your opponents’ emotional state. Never have I seen such outrage directed toward male athletes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support the women’s team but I do worry that whether or not people agree with how this particular game was played/celebrated, the debate will ultimately detract from their victories moving forward, no matter how well they play. I’ll also be curious to see how individual players choose to celebrate in future games. Will they give in to the detractors or will they continue to express themselves freely? Should be interesting.

I think future games will be far more competitive and this will not be an issue. But they did bring some unnecessary scrutiny on themselves in an otherwise flawless opening game.

But it is about context. I think most felt the over/under on this game against Thailand would have been at 5. So they were heavy favorites going in so act like it when you do win and you were expected to win big. This was not 13-0 against Germany so pump the breaks.

People are the worst. They brought this on themselves?! No! Busybody snowflakes are the ones melting down over this. They are the only ones with a problem. Why is everyone obsessed with controlling women.

Right, because it seems like most people are concerned primarily with the goal celebration choices and not the high score. When you focus on that, and say that the players should have reacted differently than they did, you’re basically saying that the women should’ve conducted themselves with more restraint. Despite the fact that this is the pinnacle of their careers, adrenaline is flowing, their team is advancing, and the player is one of the best in the world, restrain yourself. It’s not dignified or ladylike to show such exuberance toward your achievement without considering how this might affect your opponents’ emotional state. Never have I seen such outrage directed toward male athletes.

Well if the USMNT ever beats anyone by that large a margin we’ll all find out together.

The emotions or heat of the moment are not really proper defenses for personal actions.

[Anonymous]

Male athletes usually do not act like this in situations like this

In discussions online in other places, I've seen lots of cases of superior teams running the score up but not celebrating at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Male athletes usually do not act like this in situations like this

In discussions online in other places, I've seen lots of cases of superior teams running the score up but not celebrating at all

They don’t? So is this a female thing or just particular to a few specific people who happen to be women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support the women’s team but I do worry that whether or not people agree with how this particular game was played/celebrated, the debate will ultimately detract from their victories moving forward, no matter how well they play. I’ll also be curious to see how individual players choose to celebrate in future games. Will they give in to the detractors or will they continue to express themselves freely? Should be interesting.

I think future games will be far more competitive and this will not be an issue. But they did bring some unnecessary scrutiny on themselves in an otherwise flawless opening game.

But it is about context. I think most felt the over/under on this game against Thailand would have been at 5. So they were heavy favorites going in so act like it when you do win and you were expected to win big. This was not 13-0 against Germany so pump the breaks.

People are the worst. They brought this on themselves?! No! Busybody snowflakes are the ones melting down over this. They are the only ones with a problem. Why is everyone obsessed with controlling women.

Right, because it seems like most people are concerned primarily with the goal celebration choices and not the high score. When you focus on that, and say that the players should have reacted differently than they did, you’re basically saying that the women should’ve conducted themselves with more restraint. Despite the fact that this is the pinnacle of their careers, adrenaline is flowing, their team is advancing, and the player is one of the best in the world, restrain yourself. It’s not dignified or ladylike to show such exuberance toward your achievement without considering how this might affect your opponents’ emotional state. Never have I seen such outrage directed toward male athletes.

Well if the USMNT ever beats anyone by that large a margin we’ll all find out together.

The emotions or heat of the moment are not really proper defenses for personal actions.

One can only hope for the first. As for the second, eh. Our laws allow for heat of moment to be a mitigating factor in certain crimes so it’s a real thing that can impair your ability to make good decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There are two issues here.

1. Scoring goals (yes, it's ok! we need them for the goal differential). For those who don't understand why, use google.

2. Being total assholes about scoring goals after we were up 9-0 or so. (for those that don't understand sportsmanship, please see my daughters 2nd grade soccer team, they will explain it to you).

So if your daughter's team was up by 9, and a kid scored her very first goal, NO CELEBRATING!

Right?

That kid should have had better timing and scored her very first goal during the "Celebrations Allowed" period.

Well if you think that professional athletes and defending world champions should celebrate the way a 7 year old girl would then you don't understand the difference.

Any way that they choose to celebrate is how professional athletes and world champions celebrate, because they are professional athletes and world champions.

When a 7 year old girl does leg farts after scoring the 9th goal you will see how dumb it is for her too.

So you don't have a problem with the team, you have a problem with Rapinoe. I assume you have a problem with every other world class player who's on the farther end of celebrating, too? You're not just anti-Rapinoe?

Though, since apparently you're using a couple seconds of Rapinoe's behavior to tar an entire team, you might well just be some crazy anti-Rapinoe person.

Nope, I have a problem with celebrating "achievement" in such a lopsided game.

I love that Rapinoe stands up for what she believes in. Kneel during the anthem for a just cause? I'm down with that. Not putting her hand on her heart during the anthem to protest a just cause? I'm down with that too. Doing leg farts in a lopsided game against a VERY inferior opponent? I'm not down with that. How did she raise the bar or lift the women's game with that? The game was in hand. There was nothing more to celebrate.

How many goals could they be ahead by and still celebrate within the normal range of soccer goal celebrations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I support the women’s team but I do worry that whether or not people agree with how this particular game was played/celebrated, the debate will ultimately detract from their victories moving forward, no matter how well they play. I’ll also be curious to see how individual players choose to celebrate in future games. Will they give in to the detractors or will they continue to express themselves freely? Should be interesting.

People will complain no matter what. It's what people do. You don't make it to the world stage (for long) if you care about what us keyboard warriors say. None of us are awesome enough to be World Cup level soccer players. None of us matter to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I support the women’s team but I do worry that whether or not people agree with how this particular game was played/celebrated, the debate will ultimately detract from their victories moving forward, no matter how well they play. I’ll also be curious to see how individual players choose to celebrate in future games. Will they give in to the detractors or will they continue to express themselves freely? Should be interesting.

I think future games will be far more competitive and this will not be an issue. But they did bring some unnecessary scrutiny on themselves in an otherwise flawless opening game.

But it is about context. I think most felt the over/under on this game against Thailand would have been at 5. So they were heavy favorites going in so act like it when you do win and you were expected to win big. This was not 13-0 against Germany so pump the breaks.

Because since Mallory Pugh's first World Cup goal wasn't in the first 5 of the game, and it wasn't against Germany, celebrating that is inappropriate? What do you mean by "pump the breaks" ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think most people have seen the brackets. The US is in Group F with Chile, Sweden, and Thailand. The top TWO teams advance. If a team wins all three matches there are NO goal differential used. They would have 9 points (3 points for a win and 1 for a tie). If the US beats Sweden they will end up in first place. If the US loses to Sweden they will end up in second place and advance. The ONLY scenario where goal differential matters is if they tie Sweden. Then they would use goal differential. And because there are 24 teams to start and they have to go down to 16 teams then 4 third place teams will advance as well. This is different than World Cup where 32 teams start and only the top two teams advance.

However, if you look at the knock out stage, the US got a really easy draw! 24 teams start out
First place of Group F (US, Sweden, Thailand, Chile) plays 2nd place team of Group B (Germany, Spain, South Africa, China)

The SECOND place team in Group F will play the SECOND place team of E (New Zealand, Cameron, Canada, Netherlands). This is different than in the men's word cup because twop third place teams will advance.

So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals. And the celebrating that went along with it is ridiculous.

There is always a reason to score more goals if you are a professional player, regardless of whether goal differential will come into play for advancement. Every player in the World Cup is trying to build their resume to help with future contracts and endorsement deals. Many of them will get bonuses based on honors like Golden Boot or Golden Ball. Others will just be adding to their soccer resume, and a high number of total goals scored in a WC will be a very nice thing to list so you have to get them when you can. Others, like Morgan, will be shooting for US or world records in categories like most goals scored in a game, most goals scored in a WC, and most goals scored in a career. All of those things will not just help for future earnings and jobs after they retire, but also for posterity.

Soooo it wasn't about goal differential and advancing to them at all then. It was about personal achievements and incentives. Got it.

You'd be an idiot not to think Morgan's not aware of a possible Golden Boot and that didn't play into her excitement at getting 5 goals in this game, and at her teammates excitement for her.

And if you think Morgan aiming for a golden boot or being excited about possibly getting in range of it is inappropriate somehow, you need to stop following professional sports, because yes, that matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thought exercise: Did anyone ever criticize these Super Bowl winners for continuing to score?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/05/biggest-blowouts-super-bowl-history

That is the finals of that chosen sport. Do those players celebrate when they pummel say a bottom ranked Cleveland of hte past decade or a late 70's early 80's Saints or the 80's Buccaneers? No, because they know they are supposed to beat those teams.

Yesterday was not the World Cup finals and your comparing their celebrations to Super Bowl games demonstrates that you don't understand the difference.

So as a Marylander, can I call out all the teams that have crushed the Orioles this season for being unsportsmanlike? Everyone knows we're rebuilding. They could beat us by a couple of runs. Beating us by so many is trashy. Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thought exercise: Did anyone ever criticize these Super Bowl winners for continuing to score?

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/05/biggest-blowouts-super-bowl-history

That is the finals of that chosen sport. Do those players celebrate when they pummel say a bottom ranked Cleveland of hte past decade or a late 70's early 80's Saints or the 80's Buccaneers? No, because they know they are supposed to beat those teams.

Yesterday was not the World Cup finals and your comparing their celebrations to Super Bowl games demonstrates that you don't understand the difference.

So as a Marylander, can I call out all the teams that have crushed the Orioles this season for being unsportsmanlike? Everyone knows we're rebuilding. They could beat us by a couple of runs. Beating us by so many is trashy. Right?

It isn't about the score. It is celebrating single game, double digit goals as if you WON the World Cup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think most people have seen the brackets. The US is in Group F with Chile, Sweden, and Thailand. The top TWO teams advance. If a team wins all three matches there are NO goal differential used. They would have 9 points (3 points for a win and 1 for a tie). If the US beats Sweden they will end up in first place. If the US loses to Sweden they will end up in second place and advance. The ONLY scenario where goal differential matters is if they tie Sweden. Then they would use goal differential. And because there are 24 teams to start and they have to go down to 16 teams then 4 third place teams will advance as well. This is different than World Cup where 32 teams start and only the top two teams advance.

However, if you look at the knock out stage, the US got a really easy draw! 24 teams start out
First place of Group F (US, Sweden, Thailand, Chile) plays 2nd place team of Group B (Germany, Spain, South Africa, China)

The SECOND place team in Group F will play the SECOND place team of E (New Zealand, Cameron, Canada, Netherlands). This is different than in the men's word cup because twop third place teams will advance.

So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals. And the celebrating that went along with it is ridiculous.

There is always a reason to score more goals if you are a professional player, regardless of whether goal differential will come into play for advancement. Every player in the World Cup is trying to build their resume to help with future contracts and endorsement deals. Many of them will get bonuses based on honors like Golden Boot or Golden Ball. Others will just be adding to their soccer resume, and a high number of total goals scored in a WC will be a very nice thing to list so you have to get them when you can. Others, like Morgan, will be shooting for US or world records in categories like most goals scored in a game, most goals scored in a WC, and most goals scored in a career. All of those things will not just help for future earnings and jobs after they retire, but also for posterity.

Soooo it wasn't about goal differential and advancing to them at all then. It was about personal achievements and incentives. Got it.

What a strange comment. Of course they care about the team advancing as well.

Advancing was pretty assured at the 5 goal mark.

There are these things called upsets. Unexpected things happen. The future is never assured, especially not in competitive sports. If you're not willing to leave it all on the field, you're not an effective player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't think most people have seen the brackets. The US is in Group F with Chile, Sweden, and Thailand. The top TWO teams advance. If a team wins all three matches there are NO goal differential used. They would have 9 points (3 points for a win and 1 for a tie). If the US beats Sweden they will end up in first place. If the US loses to Sweden they will end up in second place and advance. The ONLY scenario where goal differential matters is if they tie Sweden. Then they would use goal differential. And because there are 24 teams to start and they have to go down to 16 teams then 4 third place teams will advance as well. This is different than World Cup where 32 teams start and only the top two teams advance.

However, if you look at the knock out stage, the US got a really easy draw! 24 teams start out
First place of Group F (US, Sweden, Thailand, Chile) plays 2nd place team of Group B (Germany, Spain, South Africa, China)

The SECOND place team in Group F will play the SECOND place team of E (New Zealand, Cameron, Canada, Netherlands). This is different than in the men's word cup because twop third place teams will advance.

So there was NO reason to score over 10 goals. And the celebrating that went along with it is ridiculous.

There is always a reason to score more goals if you are a professional player, regardless of whether goal differential will come into play for advancement. Every player in the World Cup is trying to build their resume to help with future contracts and endorsement deals. Many of them will get bonuses based on honors like Golden Boot or Golden Ball. Others will just be adding to their soccer resume, and a high number of total goals scored in a WC will be a very nice thing to list so you have to get them when you can. Others, like Morgan, will be shooting for US or world records in categories like most goals scored in a game, most goals scored in a WC, and most goals scored in a career. All of those things will not just help for future earnings and jobs after they retire, but also for posterity.

Soooo it wasn't about goal differential and advancing to them at all then. It was about personal achievements and incentives. Got it.

There’s truth to both, and both are legitimate reasons to drive up the score. The belief that team sports are only about the team and not the individuals that comprise the team is naive.

When one is celebrating a 9th or 10th goal it is no longer about celebrating advancing. It is celebrating PERSONAL achievement and that is why the celebrations were over the top and selfish.

Yes, terribly selfish for people to celebrate their first World Cup goals.
Jerks.
Like that's such an accomplishment. I'll have you know I brushed AND flossed my teeth this morning!