Liberals: How can you, in good conscience, support illegal immigrants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone deserves a shot at a better life, especially those fleeing violence. You are not more deserving of freedom and opportunity and safety just because you had the good luck to be born north of an arbitrary, man-made boundary rather than south of it.

And of course, just because something is illegal doesn’t make it immoral, and in fact, sometimes doing what is right requires breaking the law. Did you not learn about the Underground Railroad in school?

While it would be nice if it could be, the US can not be the battered shelter of the world. Our economy can't handle everyone that's in a bad place. So the best solution is to be able to take a look at those who want to enter the US and help those most in need who will simultaneously be of the most benefit to the US. Illegal immigration works against that and supports criminals who take advantage of people in bad situations at the same time. It's not helping the overall problem what so ever. It's making it worse.

We seem to be doing just fine. If you want to decide who will live and who will die based on their utility, if you want to fight with your fellow man over scraps while the rich and powerful enjoy their banquets, go ahead. Those just aren’t my values, but you do you.

DP. So to be clear: You believe that every human being who isn’t happy with the country in which they live should be able to move here and become an American citizen, enjoying all the rights and benefits that status affords?

Because that sounds like a recipe for success!

George Washington thought so.

The bosom of America is open to receive not only the opulent & respectable Stranger, but the oppressed & persecuted of all Nations & Religions; whom we shall wellcome to a participation of all our rights & previleges, if by decency & propriety of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment.

Geo. Washington, 2 December 1783

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've always wondered how you can support and defend people who are living in the U.S. illegally; people who have jumped ahead of the thousands of others waiting patiently for years to become LEGAL citizens.

Please explain why you're so eager to catch Trump committing illegal acts, but have no issue with illegal immigrants. You know, people who are breaking our laws every single minute of every single day. Thanks.

What makes you think liberals are the only ones who are empathetic towards the trials and travails of illegal immigrants?
Are you ignorant of the fact that people aren’t one-dimensional or just plain stupid and only see the world in black and white?
Let me ask you a question, why does it escape you that people can be liberal on some issues and conservative about others?
Why does it seem so inconceivable to you that in a country of over 300 million people there may be tens and even hundreds of thousands of conservatives who aren’t all bent out of shape and up in arms about illegal immigration as you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. So to be clear: You believe that every human being who isn’t happy with the country in which they live should be able to move here and become an American citizen, enjoying all the rights and benefits that status affords?

Because that sounds like a recipe for success!

N

Uh...yeah. You’re not too familiar with US history are you?

NP. I am ! No handouts, Screened for illness. Must have $50 in your pocket (in the 30s). Next?

Yes, yes, yes! I've been saying this repeatedly. People didn't swarm into this country unabated and start claiming all sorts of benefits paid for by Americans. If they had, you would have seen the doors shut, hard and fast.

Would liberals agree to the following: People can immigrate and become citizens, but there would be "native" citizens and "immigrant" citizens, and the latter would get NO benefits - no Medicaid, no food stamps, no subsidized housing, etc. - other than free education for their offspring.

No, you say? You cannot have two classes of citizens? Well, then.....we are back to merit-based immigration, which would help ensure that only a tiny percentage of immigrants end up on public assistance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone deserves a shot at a better life, especially those fleeing violence. You are not more deserving of freedom and opportunity and safety just because you had the good luck to be born north of an arbitrary, man-made boundary rather than south of it.

And of course, just because something is illegal doesn’t make it immoral, and in fact, sometimes doing what is right requires breaking the law. Did you not learn about the Underground Railroad in school?

While it would be nice if it could be, the US can not be the battered shelter of the world. Our economy can't handle everyone that's in a bad place. So the best solution is to be able to take a look at those who want to enter the US and help those most in need who will simultaneously be of the most benefit to the US. Illegal immigration works against that and supports criminals who take advantage of people in bad situations at the same time. It's not helping the overall problem what so ever. It's making it worse.

We seem to be doing just fine. If you want to decide who will live and who will die based on their utility, if you want to fight with your fellow man over scraps while the rich and powerful enjoy their banquets, go ahead. Those just aren’t my values, but you do you.

DP. So to be clear: You believe that every human being who isn’t happy with the country in which they live should be able to move here and become an American citizen, enjoying all the rights and benefits that status affords?

Because that sounds like a recipe for success!

George Washington thought so.

The bosom of America is open to receive not only the opulent & respectable Stranger, but the oppressed & persecuted of all Nations & Religions; whom we shall wellcome to a participation of all our rights & previleges, if by decency & propriety of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment.

Geo. Washington, 2 December 1783

Note the bold. Since when have some illegals merited the enjoyment? Note in 1783 they knew more about who entered on a wooden sailing ship docking in Phila, Baltimore, NY, whatever than we do about the illegals crossing the southern border en masse.

Our first President didn't have the problem. Nor did he have built out territory-vast tracks. Just what do you think would have happened from the man who led a military Revolution against Great Britain if where he lived had this problem? Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants where GW lived which is now a densely populated area? George Washington, Portion of letter to the Continental Army, June 8, 1783

"These are the pillars on which the glorious Fabrick of our Independency and National Character must be supported; Liberty is the Basis, and whoever would dare to sap the foundation, or overturn the Structure, under whatever specious pretexts he may attempt it, will merit the bitterest execration, and the severest punishment which can be inflicted by his injured Country."

"The Citizens of America, placed in the most enviable condition, as the sole Lords and Proprietors of a vast Tract of Continent, comprehending all the various soils and climates of the World, and abounding with all the necessaries and conveniencies of life, are now by the late satisfactory pacification, acknowledged to be possessed of absolute freedom and Independency;'


I suspect we never would have reached this level of Mexicans etc expecting to reside in the USA if GW was here today. http://usinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/USImmigrationhistorylutton.pdf

Mexican and other flags displayed by illegal immigrants and their advocates expecting largesse from the USA? Just would not have happened.

"Alexander Hamilton held similar views. On January 12, 1802, he spoke at length on the  subject:      The safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment;  on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias, and  prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably be found to be closely  connected with birth, education, and family. "

By the time of the Revolution we had morphed into a distinct population. The Colonies objected to British prisoner/convict dumping-now we are supposed to have open borders with mexico?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually stopped voting for the Democrats over this issue. The party has gone insane.

I actually became a Democrat over this issue.

What? Circumventing the law, the Constitution and the will of the people to get your way?

[Anonymous]

The entire system needs to be reset and revised. Everyone that comes in and wants to live here permanently needs a path to citizenship that is transparent and straightforward.

People here under previous rules and laws should go through said path to citizenship within a certain time, or be kicked out. It should be clear to them that they will only be kicked out for not attempting to go through a path of citizenship. Not because of anything else.

This sounds very simplistic and the issue is how do you iron out the details. When you focus so damn much on kicking folks out and not streamlining the system, you are not addressing the larger issue. Stop looking for small victories and attempt to address the issue in a very broad sense where you revamp the entire system and make the folks already here not under that new plan participate in said program. If and when folks are sent back, its clear why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually stopped voting for the Democrats over this issue. The party has gone insane.

I actually became a Democrat over this issue.

What? Circumventing the law, the Constitution and the will of the people to get your way?

In addition to my history lesson post the Founding Fathers would have scrapped press 2 for Spanish just like they did the press 2 for German equivalent in the 1700's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because everyone deserves a shot at a better life, especially those fleeing violence. You are not more deserving of freedom and opportunity and safety just because you had the good luck to be born north of an arbitrary, man-made boundary rather than south of it.

And of course, just because something is illegal doesn’t make it immoral, and in fact, sometimes doing what is right requires breaking the law. Did you not learn about the Underground Railroad in school?

While it would be nice if it could be, the US can not be the battered shelter of the world. Our economy can't handle everyone that's in a bad place. So the best solution is to be able to take a look at those who want to enter the US and help those most in need who will simultaneously be of the most benefit to the US. Illegal immigration works against that and supports criminals who take advantage of people in bad situations at the same time. It's not helping the overall problem what so ever. It's making it worse.

We seem to be doing just fine. If you want to decide who will live and who will die based on their utility, if you want to fight with your fellow man over scraps while the rich and powerful enjoy their banquets, go ahead. Those just aren’t my values, but you do you.

DP. So to be clear: You believe that every human being who isn’t happy with the country in which they live should be able to move here and become an American citizen, enjoying all the rights and benefits that status affords?

Because that sounds like a recipe for success!

DP. I believe this. Why not? I truly dont understand why this is not the case. Why cant we do this for any country?

Democrats have truly lost their way. There are so many Americans in this country who are impoverished and suffering right now. Why don’t we help them first?

[Anonymous]

Democrats certainly have lost their way...

[Anonymous]

It's gotten ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listening to an Angel dad who’s 29 year old son was shot to death randomly at a red light. 15 year rap sheet, jail term for. attempted murder. Why was he still here to kill Spencer,and one other?

We are talking about an illegal alien with a rap sheet a mile long. He deserved to stay, why?

Just saw a story about a Dreamer in Texas who died while saving others in Houston during Hurricane Harvey. Why is Trump targeting these people to deport?

Because they are here illegally. I can see a compromise here, an you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Note the bold. Since when have some illegals merited the enjoyment? Note in 1783 they knew more about who entered on a wooden sailing ship docking in Phila, Baltimore, NY, whatever than we do about the illegals crossing the southern border en masse.

Our first President didn't have the problem. Nor did he have built out territory-vast tracks. Just what do you think would have happened from the man who led a military Revolution against Great Britain if where he lived had this problem? Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants where GW lived which is now a densely populated area? George Washington, Portion of letter to the Continental Army, June 8, 1783

"These are the pillars on which the glorious Fabrick of our Independency and National Character must be supported; Liberty is the Basis, and whoever would dare to sap the foundation, or overturn the Structure, under whatever specious pretexts he may attempt it, will merit the bitterest execration, and the severest punishment which can be inflicted by his injured Country."

"The Citizens of America, placed in the most enviable condition, as the sole Lords and Proprietors of a vast Tract of Continent, comprehending all the various soils and climates of the World, and abounding with all the necessaries and conveniencies of life, are now by the late satisfactory pacification, acknowledged to be possessed of absolute freedom and Independency;'


I suspect we never would have reached this level of Mexicans etc expecting to reside in the USA if GW was here today. http://usinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/USImmigrationhistorylutton.pdf

Mexican and other flags displayed by illegal immigrants and their advocates expecting largesse from the USA? Just would not have happened.

"Alexander Hamilton held similar views. On January 12, 1802, he spoke at length on the  subject:      The safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment;  on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias, and  prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably be found to be closely  connected with birth, education, and family. "

By the time of the Revolution we had morphed into a distinct population. The Colonies objected to British prisoner/convict dumping-now we are supposed to have open borders with mexico?

Exactly nobody is suggesting open borders with Mexico. Strawman.

And the fact of the matter, it is mostly republican land and business owners who hire illegals to do things like pick fruit or work slaughterhouses. So start with targeting those employers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Note the bold. Since when have some illegals merited the enjoyment? Note in 1783 they knew more about who entered on a wooden sailing ship docking in Phila, Baltimore, NY, whatever than we do about the illegals crossing the southern border en masse.

Our first President didn't have the problem. Nor did he have built out territory-vast tracks. Just what do you think would have happened from the man who led a military Revolution against Great Britain if where he lived had this problem? Tens of thousands of illegal immigrants where GW lived which is now a densely populated area? George Washington, Portion of letter to the Continental Army, June 8, 1783

"These are the pillars on which the glorious Fabrick of our Independency and National Character must be supported; Liberty is the Basis, and whoever would dare to sap the foundation, or overturn the Structure, under whatever specious pretexts he may attempt it, will merit the bitterest execration, and the severest punishment which can be inflicted by his injured Country."

"The Citizens of America, placed in the most enviable condition, as the sole Lords and Proprietors of a vast Tract of Continent, comprehending all the various soils and climates of the World, and abounding with all the necessaries and conveniencies of life, are now by the late satisfactory pacification, acknowledged to be possessed of absolute freedom and Independency;'


I suspect we never would have reached this level of Mexicans etc expecting to reside in the USA if GW was here today. http://usinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/USImmigrationhistorylutton.pdf

Mexican and other flags displayed by illegal immigrants and their advocates expecting largesse from the USA? Just would not have happened.

"Alexander Hamilton held similar views. On January 12, 1802, he spoke at length on the  subject:      The safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment;  on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias, and  prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably be found to be closely  connected with birth, education, and family. "

By the time of the Revolution we had morphed into a distinct population. The Colonies objected to British prisoner/convict dumping-now we are supposed to have open borders with mexico?

Exactly nobody is suggesting open borders with Mexico. Strawman.

And the fact of the matter, it is mostly republican land and business owners who hire illegals to do things like pick fruit or work slaughterhouses. So start with targeting those employers.

Are you not actually reading this thread? Someone just suggested this a page or two ago.

[Anonymous]

Illegal immigrants...you mean like Melania Trump.

[Anonymous]

You anti-immigrant folks give yourselves away with the constant little references to alleged handouts, immigrants lacking decency, etc. You reveal not just your ignorance about immigration as a public policy issue but also your bias/racism against certain nationalities.