Yield Protection?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

Correct. Yield protection is why my kid got denied by Harvard and Penn and waitlisted by UVA. Bastards.

No one says this.

Most big state schools don't yield protect. Schools with impressive yields don't yield protect. The next tier of competitive privates all yield protect.

-private counselor

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

case is trying to get into 25-30 by yield protecting. that's the whole point. to be honest, i think they should be top 40. there are some clearly inferior schools ahead of them.

They were Top 40 (or 41 I think), until USNWR redid the criteria and basically put all the public state schools ahead of the smaller privates. Because "class size" doesn't mean a thing apparently.

There are 2 private schools in the 30-50 range that specifically are better than their rankings. Case and Rochester. Both are in geographically uninteresting areas---very few of the students there are excited about either location---most don't go in wanting to stay in the area afterwards. Rochester has less of a yield issue, but I think that's largely because they have been much more than just STEM for decades, whereas Case has been trying to expand their humanities and social sciences (but it's still not as strong). So as an Overall School, Rochester is stronger, simply because it is stronger in a wide variety of areas. Case is an amazing STEM/Engineering/Premed school, but not as much for psychology or Philosophy or art history or music/theater.

Rochester also has 2-4 supplemental essays each year (vs Case's Zero) so it makes it easier to find the right fit students and students who really want to attend/belong there. So they are not really known for "yield protection". That and they were ranked #31/32 until the USNWR new rankings, so they were much "closer to the T25" than case.

interesting. I have no interest in sports whatsoever and went to CMU as an international student. I remember sitting in the student center there was a flag of all schools that were in the same sport league (which I previously didn't know existed). CMU, emory, NYU, Rochester, case... JHU used to be there as well. I considered these schools academic peers - like Ivy League, but a step below. I kind of still do.

The Egghead Eight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

GA Tech and MUDD are at the same level as MIT Caltech Stanford. Even CMU is not besides CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

Where are the ivies? Cornell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

Where are the ivies? Cornell?

This was not intended to be comprehensive. Lots of other schools in the first and second tiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

Do you understand Case Western? If you did, you would know that Case will provide an extremely accurate FA and Merit aid package for any student interested in ED1 or ED2. They want top students who want Case. Call the AO, ask to discuss financials and you will get the details. Then you can decide if you can afford Case. If so, apply ED1/ED2. If not, then no need to apply

They give excellent merit and will let you know how much you will be getting.

We didn’t have to do any of that and kid still got accepted with $40.5k merit. It’s about having the opportunity to review all the merit and FA packages, not just understanding one school’s offer.

Well if you must "compare all the merit and FA packages" from multiple schools, then you might miss out on some. If case offers you to switch to ED2 and you don't the odds of getting anything more than a WL is almost NIL. So if you want the ability to shop around, then surely you must understand the reverse--that colleges want the opportunity to lock in committed students and if they give you the highest merit award and you still "dont' know if you can afford it" then most likely you cannot. But you don't get to have it both ways. They do more than most---they give a written merit and FA offer and basically tell you---if you switch you are getting admitted with this offer.

I don’t disagree that an ED strategy can work for some, maybe even many. But for those of us having to consider multiple merit offers ED isn’t always an option.

Northeastern also sent a financial pre-read and asked about switching to ED; kid is staying EA.

A one size strategy doesn’t work for everyone and in this case, a high stats kid got accepted to Case via EA and offered generous merit. So it’s not always NIL. Sometimes it works!

Sure sometimes it works but if they basically tell you, here is our offer, are you ready to commit and you say let me think about it and stay ea/rd, they typically reject or put on a WL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

GA Tech and MUDD are at the same level as MIT Caltech Stanford. Even CMU is not besides CS.

The best programmer at our high school went to CWRU. He was much stronger than kids majoring in CS that went to HYPSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Any school that rejected a kid. Yield protection is a coping mechanism used by many on here when kids get rejected.

Correct. Yield protection is why my kid got denied by Harvard and Penn and waitlisted by UVA. Bastards.

No one says this.

Most big state schools don't yield protect. Schools with impressive yields don't yield protect. The next tier of competitive privates all yield protect.

-private counselor

This!

So big state schools are overcrowded

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

GA Tech and MUDD are at the same level as MIT Caltech Stanford. Even CMU is not besides CS.

laughable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

Do you understand Case Western? If you did, you would know that Case will provide an extremely accurate FA and Merit aid package for any student interested in ED1 or ED2. They want top students who want Case. Call the AO, ask to discuss financials and you will get the details. Then you can decide if you can afford Case. If so, apply ED1/ED2. If not, then no need to apply

They give excellent merit and will let you know how much you will be getting.

We didn’t have to do any of that and kid still got accepted with $40.5k merit. It’s about having the opportunity to review all the merit and FA packages, not just understanding one school’s offer.

Well if you must "compare all the merit and FA packages" from multiple schools, then you might miss out on some. If case offers you to switch to ED2 and you don't the odds of getting anything more than a WL is almost NIL. So if you want the ability to shop around, then surely you must understand the reverse--that colleges want the opportunity to lock in committed students and if they give you the highest merit award and you still "dont' know if you can afford it" then most likely you cannot. But you don't get to have it both ways. They do more than most---they give a written merit and FA offer and basically tell you---if you switch you are getting admitted with this offer.

I don’t disagree that an ED strategy can work for some, maybe even many. But for those of us having to consider multiple merit offers ED isn’t always an option.

Northeastern also sent a financial pre-read and asked about switching to ED; kid is staying EA.

A one size strategy doesn’t work for everyone and in this case, a high stats kid got accepted to Case via EA and offered generous merit. So it’s not always NIL. Sometimes it works!

Sure sometimes it works but if they basically tell you, here is our offer, are you ready to commit and you say let me think about it and stay ea/rd, they typically reject or put on a WL

Yep. It's a seller's market.

If you want to throw your high stats around for the best "merit" and/or financial aid offer, you should look outside of the T25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

GA Tech and MUDD are at the same level as MIT Caltech Stanford. Even CMU is not besides CS.

The best programmer at our high school went to CWRU. He was much stronger than kids majoring in CS that went to HYPSM.

One one kid from MCPS magnet went to Case. All the top kids were to ivy/cmu or Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Good lord! The games are ridiculous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Good lord! The games are ridiculous

If you think Elon (67% accept rate) cares about its yield you are amazingly clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).

It's third tier for STEM.

Top tier - MIT, Caltech, Mudd, CMU, GA Tech
Second tier - Berkeley, Michigan, Purdue, UCLA, etc.
Third tier - CWRU, RIT, RPI, WPI, VT, etc.

I like the classification. We are in the process of sorting out a variety of engineering schools. I have a query, though. Would really appreciate any help from this group.
Where would you position Rice, UIUC, Colorado Mines, Olin, and Rose-Hulman? I've heard Duke is only good at bioengineering; is that true? What about Wash U?
TIA

P.S.: My son asked a Stanford AO when they came to visit our city about how much STEM-y they prefer a student be if applying for engineering. She said they prefer a student who enjoys STEM and poetry recitation with equal curiosity. If the student is STEM-y, then there are other schools he will be fit for.