Yield Protection?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

case is trying to get into 25-30 by yield protecting. that's the whole point. to be honest, i think they should be top 40. there are some clearly inferior schools ahead of them.

They were Top 40 (or 41 I think), until USNWR redid the criteria and basically put all the public state schools ahead of the smaller privates. Because "class size" doesn't mean a thing apparently.

There are 2 private schools in the 30-50 range that specifically are better than their rankings. Case and Rochester. Both are in geographically uninteresting areas---very few of the students there are excited about either location---most don't go in wanting to stay in the area afterwards. Rochester has less of a yield issue, but I think that's largely because they have been much more than just STEM for decades, whereas Case has been trying to expand their humanities and social sciences (but it's still not as strong). So as an Overall School, Rochester is stronger, simply because it is stronger in a wide variety of areas. Case is an amazing STEM/Engineering/Premed school, but not as much for psychology or Philosophy or art history or music/theater.

Rochester also has 2-4 supplemental essays each year (vs Case's Zero) so it makes it easier to find the right fit students and students who really want to attend/belong there. So they are not really known for "yield protection". That and they were ranked #31/32 until the USNWR new rankings, so they were much "closer to the T25" than case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Insane!

Is it though?

Is it possible that there are schools that don't WANT really high stats kids? As in, they have learned from experience that the type of kid that can get into Duke and Bowdoin are not going to be happy at Elon and so it's really in everyone's interest to cut that kid loose.

I wouldn't want public schools to have that policy, but a private school like Elon should absolutely be free to have a ceiling on stats if that is what works for them.

I would imagine they want high stat kids who want them. It brings up their averages and helps for ranking. Elon is a beautiful school and lots of kids love it. It’s fun. If my kid were premed and high stats, I’d totally recommend it. Easier to get a high GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Insane!

Is it though?

Is it possible that there are schools that don't WANT really high stats kids? As in, they have learned from experience that the type of kid that can get into Duke and Bowdoin are not going to be happy at Elon and so it's really in everyone's interest to cut that kid loose.

I wouldn't want public schools to have that policy, but a private school like Elon should absolutely be free to have a ceiling on stats if that is what works for them.

Not just Elon. The Stanford Dean of admissions used to go around saying they preferred kids with 1570/1580 scores over 1600s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

A non-issue. As many have repeatedly noted, run the net price calculator before you apply ED. If you can't afford ED then you couldn't afford RD either.

At case you can go beyond the NPC (as noted previously). They will give you merit as well as FA. Look at that and decide. And Yes, if you cannot afford it at ED1/2, well nothing is gonna change for RD
And if you "can afford it if we don't get into something better", well then you can afford it and it's your choice...don't ED if you need/want to compare schools. But it's your choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

Kids are absolutely trying to better-deal CWRU. It is their backup in case they don't get admitted to the colleges where they really want to go - MIT, CMU, etc. Few science kids really and truly want to be in a third-tier school in Cleveland, lmao.

By your logic every single school should clearly say who they are going to accept or reject just so kids can decide whether or not to apply. Post gpa / class rank / test score cutoffs. The problem (which people who believe yield protection actually happens can never understand) is that no selective college accepts or rejects "purely" on your stats. Therefore clearly saying who they will accept or reject is impossible.

CWRU is not a "third tier"---it's 2nd tiered, but in a non-exciting city (unless you are from small town midwest, maybe then it's exciting).
There are articles in the school newspaper yearly about Case being everyone's backup---60-75%+ of the students "wouldnt' be there if they had gotten into a T25-30 school". THey are a Target for many many many of the matriculating students. It's a joke but the joke is very accurate.

I've known 2 kids who attended (and my kid considered it)---those facts are true, it's not something anyone attending attempts to hide. They readily admit it.

My kid is at another (slightly higher ranked similar school) and it's the same there. of my kid's 25+ friends/good acquaintances, literally 95% of them were WL/Spring Start/Soph Start at a T25---many at multiple schools. Everyone applied to at least 3 schools in the T30 as well. So the schools (case and my kid's) are filled with T25/30 "rejects"---kids with the resume for it, but didn't win the lottery. And yes, most would have picked those schools had they gotten admitted for fall normal start on main campus freshman year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

A non-issue. As many have repeatedly noted, run the net price calculator before you apply ED. If you can't afford ED then you couldn't afford RD either.

At case you can go beyond the NPC (as noted previously). They will give you merit as well as FA. Look at that and decide. And Yes, if you cannot afford it at ED1/2, well nothing is gonna change for RD
And if you "can afford it if we don't get into something better", well then you can afford it and it's your choice...don't ED if you need/want to compare schools. But it's your choice

It’s not just prestige hunting. There’s also “can afford Case at $x but can’t commit because I might get a full ride at GMU.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

A non-issue. As many have repeatedly noted, run the net price calculator before you apply ED. If you can't afford ED then you couldn't afford RD either.

This is false at Case, because they offer merit but don’t include it in the net price calculator. So there’s no way to know how much it will actually cost for your particular kid unless they apply.

And what you do is apply EA (before the ED deadline), contact your AO and express interest in switching to ED1 or ED2 (if after the ED1 deadline) and request a FA AND Merit readout. They will provide accurate details, I know several who have gotten it after ED1---so before EA comes out and in time to switch to ED2. Case is also known for contacting EA kids and requesting they switch to ED2---they give you everything financial you need. Then it's up to you to commit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

Do you understand Case Western? If you did, you would know that Case will provide an extremely accurate FA and Merit aid package for any student interested in ED1 or ED2. They want top students who want Case. Call the AO, ask to discuss financials and you will get the details. Then you can decide if you can afford Case. If so, apply ED1/ED2. If not, then no need to apply

They give excellent merit and will let you know how much you will be getting.

We didn’t have to do any of that and kid still got accepted with $40.5k merit. It’s about having the opportunity to review all the merit and FA packages, not just understanding one school’s offer.

Well if you must "compare all the merit and FA packages" from multiple schools, then you might miss out on some. If case offers you to switch to ED2 and you don't the odds of getting anything more than a WL is almost NIL. So if you want the ability to shop around, then surely you must understand the reverse--that colleges want the opportunity to lock in committed students and if they give you the highest merit award and you still "dont' know if you can afford it" then most likely you cannot. But you don't get to have it both ways. They do more than most---they give a written merit and FA offer and basically tell you---if you switch you are getting admitted with this offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Insane!

Is it though?

Is it possible that there are schools that don't WANT really high stats kids? As in, they have learned from experience that the type of kid that can get into Duke and Bowdoin are not going to be happy at Elon and so it's really in everyone's interest to cut that kid loose.

I wouldn't want public schools to have that policy, but a private school like Elon should absolutely be free to have a ceiling on stats if that is what works for them.

I would imagine they want high stat kids who want them. It brings up their averages and helps for ranking. Elon is a beautiful school and lots of kids love it. It’s fun. If my kid were premed and high stats, I’d totally recommend it. Easier to get a high GPA.

Yes, and it's very easy for a High stats kid to demonstrate why they want to be at Elon. I agree--it' better to attend a school where you are top dog and can get a high gpa for Med school admission

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

A non-issue. As many have repeatedly noted, run the net price calculator before you apply ED. If you can't afford ED then you couldn't afford RD either.

At case you can go beyond the NPC (as noted previously). They will give you merit as well as FA. Look at that and decide. And Yes, if you cannot afford it at ED1/2, well nothing is gonna change for RD
And if you "can afford it if we don't get into something better", well then you can afford it and it's your choice...don't ED if you need/want to compare schools. But it's your choice

It’s not just prestige hunting. There’s also “can afford Case at $x but can’t commit because I might get a full ride at GMU.”

Well then you can Skip ED1/ED2 at case and take your chances. But the school is not obligated to give you admissions when they know you are not 100% committed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Not everyone is financially able to apply ED.

Do you understand Case Western? If you did, you would know that Case will provide an extremely accurate FA and Merit aid package for any student interested in ED1 or ED2. They want top students who want Case. Call the AO, ask to discuss financials and you will get the details. Then you can decide if you can afford Case. If so, apply ED1/ED2. If not, then no need to apply

They give excellent merit and will let you know how much you will be getting.

We didn’t have to do any of that and kid still got accepted with $40.5k merit. It’s about having the opportunity to review all the merit and FA packages, not just understanding one school’s offer.

Well if you must "compare all the merit and FA packages" from multiple schools, then you might miss out on some. If case offers you to switch to ED2 and you don't the odds of getting anything more than a WL is almost NIL. So if you want the ability to shop around, then surely you must understand the reverse--that colleges want the opportunity to lock in committed students and if they give you the highest merit award and you still "dont' know if you can afford it" then most likely you cannot. But you don't get to have it both ways. They do more than most---they give a written merit and FA offer and basically tell you---if you switch you are getting admitted with this offer.

I don’t disagree that an ED strategy can work for some, maybe even many. But for those of us having to consider multiple merit offers ED isn’t always an option.

Northeastern also sent a financial pre-read and asked about switching to ED; kid is staying EA.

A one size strategy doesn’t work for everyone and in this case, a high stats kid got accepted to Case via EA and offered generous merit. So it’s not always NIL. Sometimes it works!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

case is trying to get into 25-30 by yield protecting. that's the whole point. to be honest, i think they should be top 40. there are some clearly inferior schools ahead of them.

They were Top 40 (or 41 I think), until USNWR redid the criteria and basically put all the public state schools ahead of the smaller privates. Because "class size" doesn't mean a thing apparently.

There are 2 private schools in the 30-50 range that specifically are better than their rankings. Case and Rochester. Both are in geographically uninteresting areas---very few of the students there are excited about either location---most don't go in wanting to stay in the area afterwards. Rochester has less of a yield issue, but I think that's largely because they have been much more than just STEM for decades, whereas Case has been trying to expand their humanities and social sciences (but it's still not as strong). So as an Overall School, Rochester is stronger, simply because it is stronger in a wide variety of areas. Case is an amazing STEM/Engineering/Premed school, but not as much for psychology or Philosophy or art history or music/theater.

Rochester also has 2-4 supplemental essays each year (vs Case's Zero) so it makes it easier to find the right fit students and students who really want to attend/belong there. So they are not really known for "yield protection". That and they were ranked #31/32 until the USNWR new rankings, so they were much "closer to the T25" than case.

interesting. I have no interest in sports whatsoever and went to CMU as an international student. I remember sitting in the student center there was a flag of all schools that were in the same sport league (which I previously didn't know existed). CMU, emory, NYU, Rochester, case... JHU used to be there as well. I considered these schools academic peers - like Ivy League, but a step below. I kind of still do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My cousin got into Duke and Bowdoin and rejected by Elon

Insane!

Is it though?

Is it possible that there are schools that don't WANT really high stats kids? As in, they have learned from experience that the type of kid that can get into Duke and Bowdoin are not going to be happy at Elon and so it's really in everyone's interest to cut that kid loose.

I wouldn't want public schools to have that policy, but a private school like Elon should absolutely be free to have a ceiling on stats if that is what works for them.

Not just Elon. The Stanford Dean of admissions used to go around saying they preferred kids with 1570/1580 scores over 1600s.

But wait, most people don't believe schools should have the right to pick their own admission stats. You can't pick the 1350 Black student over the 1540 White one, that's not fair. But it's okay if it's in the reverse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

case is trying to get into 25-30 by yield protecting. that's the whole point. to be honest, i think they should be top 40. there are some clearly inferior schools ahead of them.

They were Top 40 (or 41 I think), until USNWR redid the criteria and basically put all the public state schools ahead of the smaller privates. Because "class size" doesn't mean a thing apparently.

There are 2 private schools in the 30-50 range that specifically are better than their rankings. Case and Rochester. Both are in geographically uninteresting areas---very few of the students there are excited about either location---most don't go in wanting to stay in the area afterwards. Rochester has less of a yield issue, but I think that's largely because they have been much more than just STEM for decades, whereas Case has been trying to expand their humanities and social sciences (but it's still not as strong). So as an Overall School, Rochester is stronger, simply because it is stronger in a wide variety of areas. Case is an amazing STEM/Engineering/Premed school, but not as much for psychology or Philosophy or art history or music/theater.

Rochester also has 2-4 supplemental essays each year (vs Case's Zero) so it makes it easier to find the right fit students and students who really want to attend/belong there. So they are not really known for "yield protection". That and they were ranked #31/32 until the USNWR new rankings, so they were much "closer to the T25" than case.

interesting. I have no interest in sports whatsoever and went to CMU as an international student. I remember sitting in the student center there was a flag of all schools that were in the same sport league (which I previously didn't know existed). CMU, emory, NYU, Rochester, case... JHU used to be there as well. I considered these schools academic peers - like Ivy League, but a step below. I kind of still do.

JHU is ahead of all of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posters keep saying 'demonstrate interest' as if most ambitious students don't know/ don't do that. These kids are clicking on emails daily and keeping zoom sessions running while they watch Game of Thrones.


This is the hoop jumping generation. Yield protectors may be able to eliminate a small minority of applicants with this hurdle, but I can't imagine it's that useful to them. The mid-tier schools make educated guesses about which students will be accepted at higher tier schools, and reject or WL them.

Since just about every private mid-tier school yield protects, it seems, the only way to avoid them is make sure to apply to at least one large public?

Yup! A good example is case western. The campus is filled with kids who all applied to several "higher ranked schools" and would be attending those schools had they been admitted. Some years, Case pulls a very high amount from their Wait List. Other years it's 0. They have a yield calculation problem---because they are at that spot where--"it's a great school, but there are many other top schools most would rather attend, and many don't want to end up in Cleveland". So they know those who apply who are above the 75% for case stats are 95%+ also applying to several T25-30 schools. They know many will get accepted at one or more of those schools and many will choose that school over case. So for them, it's a hard time to calculate who will actually attend. They do NOT want to have to fill 50% of the freshman class from the waitlist (yet it happens some years). That is an issue several schools in the 35-50 range have.

If Case Western is so worried about its yield then maybe it should try to get into T25-30.

[There is nothing CWRU can do to get into the T25-30. Same goes for other schools in the T51-100. They are what they are.]

It can also clearly tell students that if they have a GPA of 3.8+ and SAT score above 1500 etc. then they don’t need to bother applying.

[Kids with those scores who want to attend CWRU should apply ED. If they don't, it's because they're trying to better-deal CWRU. That's perfectly understandable, but it's also perfectly understandable for CWRU, which knows what they're doing, not to offer them admission.]

Not doubt any of those and having students pay the application fee to only reject them thinking they won’t attend is idiotic at best.

[If you want to attend and don't want to "waste" your fee then apply ED.]

Maybe Case Western should clearly say whom they will reject to protect yield so that students can decide whether to apply or not? But they don’t do that, do they? Kids are not trying to better deal CWRU. They are nervous about not ending up anywhere which is why they are paying the fee and applying. No one applies just for fun or to boast.

case is trying to get into 25-30 by yield protecting. that's the whole point. to be honest, i think they should be top 40. there are some clearly inferior schools ahead of them.

They were Top 40 (or 41 I think), until USNWR redid the criteria and basically put all the public state schools ahead of the smaller privates. Because "class size" doesn't mean a thing apparently.

There are 2 private schools in the 30-50 range that specifically are better than their rankings. Case and Rochester. Both are in geographically uninteresting areas---very few of the students there are excited about either location---most don't go in wanting to stay in the area afterwards. Rochester has less of a yield issue, but I think that's largely because they have been much more than just STEM for decades, whereas Case has been trying to expand their humanities and social sciences (but it's still not as strong). So as an Overall School, Rochester is stronger, simply because it is stronger in a wide variety of areas. Case is an amazing STEM/Engineering/Premed school, but not as much for psychology or Philosophy or art history or music/theater.

Rochester also has 2-4 supplemental essays each year (vs Case's Zero) so it makes it easier to find the right fit students and students who really want to attend/belong there. So they are not really known for "yield protection". That and they were ranked #31/32 until the USNWR new rankings, so they were much "closer to the T25" than case.

interesting. I have no interest in sports whatsoever and went to CMU as an international student. I remember sitting in the student center there was a flag of all schools that were in the same sport league (which I previously didn't know existed). CMU, emory, NYU, Rochester, case... JHU used to be there as well. I considered these schools academic peers - like Ivy League, but a step below. I kind of still do.

JHU is ahead of all of them.

Chicago is still in that conference. Also not a peer.