Disclosing atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster but was also raised as an atheist. My family relocated from a larger city to a small town in the Midwest when I was 10. Basically everyone went to church. Kids went to youth group, sometimes multiple times a week. There were camps and slumber parties at churches and holiday things. I didn't participate in any of those things because my parents were not religious.

I experienced a lot of intrusive personal questions from adults (parents of friends, coworkers of my dad's, teachers) about my family's religion. Lots of attempts by parents, other kids, and several teachers to convert me to Christianity. Repeatedly being invited to church and then told that I didn't need to tell my parents about it. Friends who would say, "You should sleep over on Saturday and then we can go to church in the morning" without asking if that was something I was interested in or comfortable with.

From my side, as a weird kid who had always been interested in religion in general, I would probably have really enjoyed going to a lot of that stuff, particularly the social stuff that it felt like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. But there was no way in that town to just go to one lock-in - I tried that and spent weeks trying to get the girl I attended the lock-in with to stop proselytizing to me. There was a ton of social pressure to conform and people who didn't definitely heard about it.

As an adult, I can see the proselytizing as part of the mission of Christianity. I also don't and didn't think these people were bad people, nor do I think that most of them intended to be exclusionary and apply pressure in ways that felt bad. I understand that the intention was to be welcoming and enthusiastic. But the way I experienced those things, as a child, was not positive. It did not feel supportive and welcoming. It felt like in order to have community support, I had to become a Christian. I just did not believe, and I did not feel like it was okay to pretend that I believed when I did not.

I do not identify as an atheist at this time in my life, but I also do not believe in a god in the way that Christians do. I don't talk about this often because it makes Christians very uncomfortable to even call their god "their god" or "a god."

I was the other pp who said that I was attacked as an atheist. I could have written this except that we did not live in a small town, and I am still an atheist. We actually lived right here in close in suburban DC and I maintain that I am an atheist, but only in a whisper. I married a scientist who is also and atheist, but before then only one man dropped me for being an atheist. Not one of my several siblings married into a religious family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I was raised as an atheist. I would say that the two groups who receive the most blatant intolerance are Mormons and atheists. It was a difficult childhood and I will never forget those who attacked me. I even thought of moving to a communist country because we would be more acceptable. It’s never ok to attack someone for their beliefs or lack thereof.

Who attacked you? Where were you attacked and why? Did your parents not protect you when you were a child? Were you physically attacked by strangers?

NP. These third degree questions come off as victim blaming.

Not victim blaming whatsoever. Being attacked as a child for any reason is criminal! Whomever attacked atheist pp should be in jail. How could a child be attacked and their parents not call police?

You want to lock up all of the evangelicals?

Seems harsh but ok.

Pp who was attacked won’t tell the story. Likely fake and attention seeking troll.

PP wants to lock up people who attack others about their lack of religion. Seems harsh to lock up all evangelicals.

What some people don't understand about Evangelicals, is that evangelizing - spreading the "Good news" about Jesus - is central to their beliefs. It would be like asking Catholics to disavow transubstantiation. Worse, perhaps, because belief that turning the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus is a Catholic thing, while the mission of evangelizing is to turn everyone into a Christian.

Oh we understand it.

Every time they attack us.

[Anonymous]

Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

Proselytizing does not mean FORCING someone to convert. It means trying to convert someone, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

Proselytizing does not mean FORCING someone to convert. It means trying to convert someone, period.

Correct. Proselytizing means trying to force someone to convert, not necessarily succeeding. Just because a person follows you on the street telling you how you're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus into your life, doesn't mean they are right, or that you'll actually go to hell if you rebuff them. Atheists don't believe in hell. Or heaven.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

Proselytizing does not mean FORCING someone to convert. It means trying to convert someone, period.

Correct. Proselytizing means trying to force someone to convert, not necessarily succeeding. Just because a person follows you on the street telling you how you're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus into your life, doesn't mean they are right, or that you'll actually go to hell if you rebuff them. Atheists don't believe in hell. Or heaven.

It means trying to convert someone. Which is part of the mission, I understand that. But it is also aggressive - maybe not physically menacing, but if a person follows me down the street telling me I’m going to hell for not accepting Jesus into my life is still behaving in a socially aggressive way. It’s not respectful, and splitting hairs about how it’s trying to force someone to convert is gaslighting. The situation you described is aggressive regardless of whether I believe or not.

I don’t think the situation described in the OP is a proselytizing one, but don’t sit here and pretend that it’s just “sharing the good news” to follow people and tell them they’re going to hell if they don’t believe as you believe. If a Muslim did that, I imagine that you would find it aggressive and unwelcome. Please recognize that it is the same behavior you are describing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

Proselytizing does not mean FORCING someone to convert. It means trying to convert someone, period.

Correct. Proselytizing means trying to force someone to convert, not necessarily succeeding. Just because a person follows you on the street telling you how you're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus into your life, doesn't mean they are right, or that you'll actually go to hell if you rebuff them. Atheists don't believe in hell. Or heaven.

It means trying to convert someone. Which is part of the mission, I understand that. But it is also aggressive - maybe not physically menacing, but if a person follows me down the street telling me I’m going to hell for not accepting Jesus into my life is still behaving in a socially aggressive way. It’s not respectful, and splitting hairs about how it’s trying to force someone to convert is gaslighting. The situation you described is aggressive regardless of whether I believe or not.

I don’t think the situation described in the OP is a proselytizing one, but don’t sit here and pretend that it’s just “sharing the good news” to follow people and tell them they’re going to hell if they don’t believe as you believe. If a Muslim did that, I imagine that you would find it aggressive and unwelcome. Please recognize that it is the same behavior you are describing.

I agree completely. Not pretending anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

Proselytizing does not mean FORCING someone to convert. It means trying to convert someone, period.

Correct. Proselytizing means trying to force someone to convert, not necessarily succeeding. Just because a person follows you on the street telling you how you're going to hell if you don't accept Jesus into your life, doesn't mean they are right, or that you'll actually go to hell if you rebuff them. Atheists don't believe in hell. Or heaven.

It means trying to convert someone. Which is part of the mission, I understand that. But it is also aggressive - maybe not physically menacing, but if a person follows me down the street telling me I’m going to hell for not accepting Jesus into my life is still behaving in a socially aggressive way. It’s not respectful, and splitting hairs about how it’s trying to force someone to convert is gaslighting. The situation you described is aggressive regardless of whether I believe or not.

I don’t think the situation described in the OP is a proselytizing one, but don’t sit here and pretend that it’s just “sharing the good news” to follow people and tell them they’re going to hell if they don’t believe as you believe. If a Muslim did that, I imagine that you would find it aggressive and unwelcome. Please recognize that it is the same behavior you are describing.

+1

Having an adult family member scream at you when you’re a kid that you’re going to go to hell is an attack.

The only thing it accomplished was changing my mind about evangelicals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist above. I actually don't mind the evangelizing as long as they don't go after children or helpless old people. I have never been attacked by an evangelical, in my experience, they have been more gentle.

An evangelical approached me in an airport while I was reading a humanist newsletter (I think). After a short while, I asked if she were trying to convert me. "Yes" she answered cheerfully. I told her not to bother and she went away.

Proselytizing means forcing someone to become religious against their will. Nobody in America can be proselytized. People can talk with others about God and religion- but once someone tells you they aren’t interested- they should be left alone. That’s why I don’t buy the atheists who say they were attacked- they don’t say how or why or who attacked them. People who are religious don’t attack people while speaking to them about God or religious beliefs. Who would listen to or be receptive to a person who was “attacking” them?

No, keep it to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster but was also raised as an atheist. My family relocated from a larger city to a small town in the Midwest when I was 10. Basically everyone went to church. Kids went to youth group, sometimes multiple times a week. There were camps and slumber parties at churches and holiday things. I didn't participate in any of those things because my parents were not religious.

I experienced a lot of intrusive personal questions from adults (parents of friends, coworkers of my dad's, teachers) about my family's religion. Lots of attempts by parents, other kids, and several teachers to convert me to Christianity. Repeatedly being invited to church and then told that I didn't need to tell my parents about it. Friends who would say, "You should sleep over on Saturday and then we can go to church in the morning" without asking if that was something I was interested in or comfortable with.

From my side, as a weird kid who had always been interested in religion in general, I would probably have really enjoyed going to a lot of that stuff, particularly the social stuff that it felt like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. But there was no way in that town to just go to one lock-in - I tried that and spent weeks trying to get the girl I attended the lock-in with to stop proselytizing to me. There was a ton of social pressure to conform and people who didn't definitely heard about it.

As an adult, I can see the proselytizing as part of the mission of Christianity. I also don't and didn't think these people were bad people, nor do I think that most of them intended to be exclusionary and apply pressure in ways that felt bad. I understand that the intention was to be welcoming and enthusiastic. But the way I experienced those things, as a child, was not positive. It did not feel supportive and welcoming. It felt like in order to have community support, I had to become a Christian. I just did not believe, and I did not feel like it was okay to pretend that I believed when I did not.

I do not identify as an atheist at this time in my life, but I also do not believe in a god in the way that Christians do. I don't talk about this often because it makes Christians very uncomfortable to even call their god "their god" or "a god."

Yes, we have heard the story of how you were tricked into attending youth group at a church and they had a band to lure the kids in. Just awful. And don’t get you started on the free doughnuts and coffee churches use to lure in unwary families…it’s extremely deceptive. One minute you are eating a doughnut- the next, you are being baptized against your will and your kids are singing “Jesus Loves the Little Children” in a Sunday School classroom and being forced to collect pennies for hungry children in Africa. When will it end?

I'm the one who shared my experience (on a different thread many months ago) about my friend's weird evangelical rock band service. I'm not PP here who shared their story above. I wasn't even raised atheist. I belonged to a Christian church, but I guess I just wasn't devout enough for my evangelical friend, who felt the need to try to convert me to her particular brand of Christianity.

As PP outlined beautifully, the proselytizing, even when it is meant with love and caring and welcome, can be alienating, especially for children who do not fully understand the ins and outs of the evangelical mission. It can feel like you are being attacked for your different beliefs (or lack thereof).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster but was also raised as an atheist. My family relocated from a larger city to a small town in the Midwest when I was 10. Basically everyone went to church. Kids went to youth group, sometimes multiple times a week. There were camps and slumber parties at churches and holiday things. I didn't participate in any of those things because my parents were not religious.

I experienced a lot of intrusive personal questions from adults (parents of friends, coworkers of my dad's, teachers) about my family's religion. Lots of attempts by parents, other kids, and several teachers to convert me to Christianity. Repeatedly being invited to church and then told that I didn't need to tell my parents about it. Friends who would say, "You should sleep over on Saturday and then we can go to church in the morning" without asking if that was something I was interested in or comfortable with.

From my side, as a weird kid who had always been interested in religion in general, I would probably have really enjoyed going to a lot of that stuff, particularly the social stuff that it felt like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. But there was no way in that town to just go to one lock-in - I tried that and spent weeks trying to get the girl I attended the lock-in with to stop proselytizing to me. There was a ton of social pressure to conform and people who didn't definitely heard about it.

As an adult, I can see the proselytizing as part of the mission of Christianity. I also don't and didn't think these people were bad people, nor do I think that most of them intended to be exclusionary and apply pressure in ways that felt bad. I understand that the intention was to be welcoming and enthusiastic. But the way I experienced those things, as a child, was not positive. It did not feel supportive and welcoming. It felt like in order to have community support, I had to become a Christian. I just did not believe, and I did not feel like it was okay to pretend that I believed when I did not.

I do not identify as an atheist at this time in my life, but I also do not believe in a god in the way that Christians do. I don't talk about this often because it makes Christians very uncomfortable to even call their god "their god" or "a god."

Yes, we have heard the story of how you were tricked into attending youth group at a church and they had a band to lure the kids in. Just awful. And don’t get you started on the free doughnuts and coffee churches use to lure in unwary families…it’s extremely deceptive. One minute you are eating a doughnut- the next, you are being baptized against your will and your kids are singing “Jesus Loves the Little Children” in a Sunday School classroom and being forced to collect pennies for hungry children in Africa. When will it end?

I'm the one who shared my experience (on a different thread many months ago) about my friend's weird evangelical rock band service. I'm not PP here who shared their story above. I wasn't even raised atheist. I belonged to a Christian church, but I guess I just wasn't devout enough for my evangelical friend, who felt the need to try to convert me to her particular brand of Christianity.

As PP outlined beautifully, the proselytizing, even when it is meant with love and caring and welcome, can be alienating, especially for children who do not fully understand the ins and outs of the evangelical mission. It can feel like you are being attacked for your different beliefs (or lack thereof).

Understanding the mission doesn’t excuse the behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster but was also raised as an atheist. My family relocated from a larger city to a small town in the Midwest when I was 10. Basically everyone went to church. Kids went to youth group, sometimes multiple times a week. There were camps and slumber parties at churches and holiday things. I didn't participate in any of those things because my parents were not religious.

I experienced a lot of intrusive personal questions from adults (parents of friends, coworkers of my dad's, teachers) about my family's religion. Lots of attempts by parents, other kids, and several teachers to convert me to Christianity. Repeatedly being invited to church and then told that I didn't need to tell my parents about it. Friends who would say, "You should sleep over on Saturday and then we can go to church in the morning" without asking if that was something I was interested in or comfortable with.

From my side, as a weird kid who had always been interested in religion in general, I would probably have really enjoyed going to a lot of that stuff, particularly the social stuff that it felt like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. But there was no way in that town to just go to one lock-in - I tried that and spent weeks trying to get the girl I attended the lock-in with to stop proselytizing to me. There was a ton of social pressure to conform and people who didn't definitely heard about it.

As an adult, I can see the proselytizing as part of the mission of Christianity. I also don't and didn't think these people were bad people, nor do I think that most of them intended to be exclusionary and apply pressure in ways that felt bad. I understand that the intention was to be welcoming and enthusiastic. But the way I experienced those things, as a child, was not positive. It did not feel supportive and welcoming. It felt like in order to have community support, I had to become a Christian. I just did not believe, and I did not feel like it was okay to pretend that I believed when I did not.

I do not identify as an atheist at this time in my life, but I also do not believe in a god in the way that Christians do. I don't talk about this often because it makes Christians very uncomfortable to even call their god "their god" or "a god."

Yes, we have heard the story of how you were tricked into attending youth group at a church and they had a band to lure the kids in. Just awful. And don’t get you started on the free doughnuts and coffee churches use to lure in unwary families…it’s extremely deceptive. One minute you are eating a doughnut- the next, you are being baptized against your will and your kids are singing “Jesus Loves the Little Children” in a Sunday School classroom and being forced to collect pennies for hungry children in Africa. When will it end?

I'm the one who shared my experience (on a different thread many months ago) about my friend's weird evangelical rock band service. I'm not PP here who shared their story above. I wasn't even raised atheist. I belonged to a Christian church, but I guess I just wasn't devout enough for my evangelical friend, who felt the need to try to convert me to her particular brand of Christianity.

As PP outlined beautifully, the proselytizing, even when it is meant with love and caring and welcome, can be alienating, especially for children who do not fully understand the ins and outs of the evangelical mission. It can feel like you are being attacked for your different beliefs (or lack thereof).

Understanding the mission doesn’t excuse the behavior.

Agreed. But at least an understand of it can lessen the sting. Knowing it's not really about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a different poster but was also raised as an atheist. My family relocated from a larger city to a small town in the Midwest when I was 10. Basically everyone went to church. Kids went to youth group, sometimes multiple times a week. There were camps and slumber parties at churches and holiday things. I didn't participate in any of those things because my parents were not religious.

I experienced a lot of intrusive personal questions from adults (parents of friends, coworkers of my dad's, teachers) about my family's religion. Lots of attempts by parents, other kids, and several teachers to convert me to Christianity. Repeatedly being invited to church and then told that I didn't need to tell my parents about it. Friends who would say, "You should sleep over on Saturday and then we can go to church in the morning" without asking if that was something I was interested in or comfortable with.

From my side, as a weird kid who had always been interested in religion in general, I would probably have really enjoyed going to a lot of that stuff, particularly the social stuff that it felt like EVERYONE ELSE was doing. But there was no way in that town to just go to one lock-in - I tried that and spent weeks trying to get the girl I attended the lock-in with to stop proselytizing to me. There was a ton of social pressure to conform and people who didn't definitely heard about it.

As an adult, I can see the proselytizing as part of the mission of Christianity. I also don't and didn't think these people were bad people, nor do I think that most of them intended to be exclusionary and apply pressure in ways that felt bad. I understand that the intention was to be welcoming and enthusiastic. But the way I experienced those things, as a child, was not positive. It did not feel supportive and welcoming. It felt like in order to have community support, I had to become a Christian. I just did not believe, and I did not feel like it was okay to pretend that I believed when I did not.

I do not identify as an atheist at this time in my life, but I also do not believe in a god in the way that Christians do. I don't talk about this often because it makes Christians very uncomfortable to even call their god "their god" or "a god."

Yes, we have heard the story of how you were tricked into attending youth group at a church and they had a band to lure the kids in. Just awful. And don’t get you started on the free doughnuts and coffee churches use to lure in unwary families…it’s extremely deceptive. One minute you are eating a doughnut- the next, you are being baptized against your will and your kids are singing “Jesus Loves the Little Children” in a Sunday School classroom and being forced to collect pennies for hungry children in Africa. When will it end?

I'm the one who shared my experience (on a different thread many months ago) about my friend's weird evangelical rock band service. I'm not PP here who shared their story above. I wasn't even raised atheist. I belonged to a Christian church, but I guess I just wasn't devout enough for my evangelical friend, who felt the need to try to convert me to her particular brand of Christianity.

As PP outlined beautifully, the proselytizing, even when it is meant with love and caring and welcome, can be alienating, especially for children who do not fully understand the ins and outs of the evangelical mission. It can feel like you are being attacked for your different beliefs (or lack thereof).

Understanding the mission doesn’t excuse the behavior.

Agreed. But at least an understand of it can lessen the sting. Knowing it's not really about you.

It is about you. It's just not only about you. It's supposedly saving people like you, who are sinners in their eyes in need of being saved.