Anonymous wrote:It’s a cop out answer, OP. Easier than offering you help in ways that might give you more time to go to therapy, exercise, et al. She could make a few healthy meals and drop off, or watch your kids for a few hours.
Do you really believe that a few healthy meals can help with clinical depression? OP said she has been in therapy for years. Few more sessions will not make a difference.
And finding Jesus will make a difference?
Some people continue learning from therapy and should not drop it because of a stranger on the internet or a friend pushing a religious cure.
Yes. Finding Jesus does make a difference. Bonus - it costs way less than any therapy!
You are part of the problem.
You are funny. OP's problem don't come from people who live happy and content life. OP's problems come from people like you who convinced that living with depression is normal. Your soul is like a jar, it cannot remain empty. If you don't fill it in with a light, it will be filled with a darkness. And to fill it with the light, you have to take action. The good thing is that OP has the choice of how to fill it.
I sort of agree with that. If all the therapists and medications and treatments have failed? If you have struggled with depression your entire life, tried every possible treatment and multiple medications, had many different psychiatric interventions, and modern treatments and medications have failed you?
You can’t just stay in the dark of depression your entire life. Try something different. You have to try, for yourself and your loved ones.
It’s gross to suggest a person suffers for decades and dies in mental agony and doesn’t try to live a better quality of life for their own happiness.
So, what the hell, OP-- try religion. and if that doesn't work, too bad - Christians will tell you that you just need to keep trying to believe and Jesus eventually will save you.
You are speaking for Christians in the absence of the need to do so. I have two suggestions, that either your parents either neglected to teach you, or you were taught, but refuse to abide by:
1. Don’t generalize, especially about people, especially about their deeply held, deeply personal beliefs
2. Don’t speak for a person, or group of people. Let people speak for themselves.
I choose to believe your parents taught you these lessons, and you just need a simple reminder to implement them to be a kind, socially responsible citizen.
No simple reminder needed. Just keep trying to believe and Jesus eventually will save you.
You are toxic. You speak for Christianity when you are not a Christian. You think I need your permission to worship Jesus and His Salvation is a joke? Why do you care how I or anyone else conducts their worship and faith in America- a place founded on complete religious freedom?
There are so many toxic posters here who cannot accept religious freedom is a huge part of being an American. It’s good we can worship as we wish. It makes us the envy of the world.
I believe Americans who are so un-American as to not believe in freedom of religion and do not tolerate freedom of religion should either learn to be respectful of our laws and values and morals, or find a new home in a country that limits the expression and freedom of religion, so they can live peaceful and happy lives.
Google the countries that restrict religion and religious practices and go there…you won’t have to live in a country with religious freedom. It would be better than spending your life obsessively watching religious people, telling religious people their faith is wrong, and speaking for the Christianity you despise so deeply.
It’s very sad to live your life hating something (Christianity) so much. It will be very hard for you your entire life, because religious freedom is not going away. We will continue to worship, pray, speak about our faith, and shine brightly as lights representing God in our communities.
As the saying goes, sucks to be you, but I’d never say that to you seriously. I believe your anger and obsessive hostility and venom against Christianity and Christians comes from irrational fear, self-loathing, and hatred for yourself. No one can hate other people without cause without self-hatred.
So when you post such uncalled for and hateful things, I know it’s coming from a bitter and angry and scared place of self-hatred. Prayers to you. Jesus will save you, too.
Wow - talk about anger and hostility! Two simple sentences encouraging belief inspire paragraphs of attack language. It's so unlike Christ that it's hard to believe an actual Christian would say such things.
You aren’t serious, just trolling because looking in the mirror hurts.
pp must not be a good Christian. A good Christian would not say such hateful things. Even to a stranger on the Internet.
There are no good Christians.
You are a hateful and bigoted anti-theist. An atheist simply doesn’t believe or care about religion or God. Anti-theists actively and obsessively hate religion, religious people, etc.
So tell me, are there good Jewish people? Good Muslim people? Are any religious people good?
That’s not a real post and you know it. Don’t feed the trolls.
I see many posts here claiming that religion, religious people, Christianity specifically, is bad. That Christianity and Christians are mean and harmful to people and for America.
Despite America being founded on absolute freedom to worship however an American desires. Despite every American president coming from a Christian faith tradition; despite the majority of our current elected officials professing a Christian faith, and publicly expressing their Christian belief and attending church, as President Biden and his wife and family do.
If you do not like Christianity, pp, and you think there are no good Christians, there are countries that limit the practice of Christianity and in which being a Christian is severely restricted.
Pew has a comprehensive reporting on this very topic.
" border="0" class="embeddedImage" />
If you are an American that is an anti-theist, and actively dislikes religion, opposes the free exercise of religion and believes religion is harmful, you have places to flee to.
If you want to live in a country that represents your thoughts on restricting religion, Pew shows you who you identify with and what government you would feel comfortable living under.
Straw man yet again. Yes, many negative things about religion are mentioned here, as they should be. But no one has claimed all religious people are bad so stop saying that. And as for wanting a country that restricts religion, the constitution has spoken on that.
There just isn’t compelling evidence a god exists. That’s the entire atheist position. Don’t ascribe any more to it. And try and spot those troll posts before you reply to them. They are not real.
Atheists simply choose to say they don’t believe in God. They don’t get any say in how other people feel about God, including God’s existence, or the personal relationship a person may choose to have via their religious beliefs, with God.
Your personal feelings about God do not impact anyone else’s regarding the existence of God.
Your atheism is how you view the world for you- not the rest of us.
Here you go straw manning again, arguing against positions no one has made.
The facts are you have it exactly backwards, and it is the religious that preach what will happen if we don’t believe, and the nonreligious that simply say what they believe, which is that there isn’t compelling evidence for a God but if you show us some, we will change our position.
What would make you change your position?
What is your faith that God does not exist based on?
DP It's not faith. It's lack of evidence
Plenty of people see evidence of God.
There are no scientific tests or measures to prove or disprove God’s existence.
Why can’t the original pp answer?
I remember a line in Angels and Demons, the movie. A priest asks Tom Hanks's character "Do you believe in God?" And he says something like "No, father, that's a gift I never received." (or something pretty close to that). It always fascinates me how some people are susceptible to this belief (and can abandon common sense) and some just aren't. I wonder if it's genetic. Some people may have the "believer gene" and some just don't."
Tom Hank’s movies are indeed incredible. Basing life choices off of lines written for Tom Hanks, by screenwriters, for Hanks to speak, to make money, is just amazing, friend.
Whether or not God exists cannot be definitely proven. If you don’t believe, that’s your choice, but your disbelief doesn’t negate anyone else’s belief, and vice versa.
Same goes for all the other Gods and imaginary characters throughout history
Constructive conversation between those of different faiths, and believers/nonbelievers, is appropriate. People who just want to stand up and decree why their belief is correct and everyone else is wrong- that’s the problem.
agreed. Hard to do, though if religious believers want to convert people to their particular version of Religion and non-believers want to tell believers how silly religion is.
Often just speaking about your religious beliefs is considered trying to convert someone, which is false.
I can say I believe in God, He created the world, and Jesus Christ is my personal Savior.
That doesn’t make anyone else have to believe as I do.
I have a right to express my religious beliefs. Does doing so convert anyone?
So, do you extend the same freedom to people who tell you they don’t see any evidence for your beliefs? Is that them trying to convert you or convince you?
I have never told an atheist that their beliefs are silly or not valid. Ever. I just have my own deeply held beliefs. Atheists can believe as they wish, that’s an important part of being an American and it’s important to treat other people (even if I don’t agree with them) and their beliefs with respect.
Why do you have to tell other people you see no evidence for their beliefs?
Why do you get to say what your beliefs are and I do not? You didn’t answer that question.
You aren’t talking about your beliefs- you are talking about mine. Your beliefs are that my beliefs are wrong?
That there is no evidence for them. Yes that is my belief.
Why do you need evidence for my beliefs?
Hopefully I need evidence for any beliefs. But let’s try this: write out a sample conversation of you stating your beliefs and me replying. Write it out exactly how you think it should go.
No thanks. I respect your disbelief, have no judgment upon it, am glad we live in a country we can live as we choose. I don’t feel any need to prove to you or me or anyone else that I am right and you are wrong, or to examine why you believe as you do.
I’m not surprised you won’t do that.
It’s because you want it where you can say what you think but no one can disagree.
Sorry not how it works
Your belief is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You believe that unless you see evidence for something that makes sense to you, everyone else is wrong.
My beliefs are what I think are important and what makes sense to me, brings me comfort, and yes, I believe the evidence I have seen that has led me to my religion. I do not believe anyone has to prove to anyone else they are right to live as they believe.
There is nothing that makes me happy, improves my life, or makes me more or less secure in my religion and life by asking you to provide me evidence to prove your beliefs are valid. You are not subject to my assessment of correctness.
You are an American citizen and due your right to believe or not believe as you choose.
I don’t understand how you feel you must approve everyone’s religion like a teacher grading a test…if people answer your questions right and give you evidence, you will allow their belief. If you feel you have the right or responsibility to inspect people’s beliefs and say anything other than you personally don’t believe, I think you are overstepping your boundaries.
More straw man. Don’t ascribe anything to me without asking. I’ll tell you my beliefs. Nearly everything you have ascribed to me is false.
So tell us your beliefs.
I already have, and you already know, but if you’d like me to repeat, I’ll be happy to:
I have seen no sufficient evidence supporting the existence of a god or gods. Therefore, I see no reason to believe in one. If I do see sufficient evidence of one, I will change my position accordingly.
We know you don’t have religious beliefs. What are your beliefs that do involving religion? No one expects you to have religious beliefs.
Forgive me, I assure I am being sincere, but I don’t understand your post, and if you could try again, and I will reply, I would appreciate it.
Morals?
Values?
Ethical codes?
Do you have any, and what are they?
People who don’t believe in religion still believe in something? Not a higher power. What gives your life meaning?
I think life itself gives itself meaning enough. Every single day. And the things within it. Of course, I have morals and values and ethical codes everybody does, and sometimes they differ.
But make no mistake. None of those things have anything to do with whether or not I believe a god or gods exist.
Ok, could you share what morals and values and ethical codes you believe in? That’s what I am interested in.
This is a religion forum, and I think we should restrict our discussion to that topic.
I’m not surprised you won’t do that.
It’s because you want it where you can say what you think but no one can disagree.
Sorry not how it works.
What an epic fail. You think that was clever? You think that has any correlation to the post you copy? It doesn’t. Pathetic.
It’s strawman and non-sequitur yet again.
Now how about you present your evidence for your god?
Your entire personality is based upon hating religion, and demanding American citizens with constitutionally protected rights to believe and worship however they choose show you “evidence” of their beliefs.
Atheists are the biggest Karens of all time.
I don’t believe for a second you have any morals or values that are worth much, as you don’t respect the constitution and fancy yourself a self-appointed hall monitor, making demands for “evidence.” Then, when asked about your morals and values, you say it’s not necessary to discuss them- and nobody even asked you for evidence to prove your viewpoint. How about you list your morals, values, and ethics, and for each one provide a comprehensive piece of evidence to prove everything about them? We need to evaluate historical origin and take stock of your claims to assess value, make sure it’s an appropriate way to think and live.
So much wrong with your post:
No my entire personality is not based on hating religion.
I only ask for evidence when claims are made. No claim, no evidence required. Show evidence and I will change my mind. Easy peasy!
I don’t care what you think my values are. I am a good and kind and generous person . Your ad hominems don’t change that. This is the religion forum, as pointed out. Stay on topic and don’t straw man. Oh and the pejorative “karen” that you use is both sexist and stupid. But we’re not talking about values, including the poor ones you just demonstrated.
I’ll politely wait for your evidence.
What kind of evidence are you seeking? Like really, what would it look like? Are you imagining that you can someone find God physically somewhere? Find some mysterious wavelength that sounds like God? Some magical incantation that can help you channel God and perform miracles? Seriously, what qualitative kind of evidence are you seeking?
Any kind. The best you have.
The fact that the world exists? The fact that it is (and we assume it is) intelligible? The fact that all humans throughout history have strived for the divine (we have the God gene if you will)? The fact that only humans (vs other animals) are capable of such deep evil?
Anonymous wrote:It’s a cop out answer, OP. Easier than offering you help in ways that might give you more time to go to therapy, exercise, et al. She could make a few healthy meals and drop off, or watch your kids for a few hours.
Do you really believe that a few healthy meals can help with clinical depression? OP said she has been in therapy for years. Few more sessions will not make a difference.
And finding Jesus will make a difference?
Some people continue learning from therapy and should not drop it because of a stranger on the internet or a friend pushing a religious cure.
Yes. Finding Jesus does make a difference. Bonus - it costs way less than any therapy!
You are part of the problem.
You are funny. OP's problem don't come from people who live happy and content life. OP's problems come from people like you who convinced that living with depression is normal. Your soul is like a jar, it cannot remain empty. If you don't fill it in with a light, it will be filled with a darkness. And to fill it with the light, you have to take action. The good thing is that OP has the choice of how to fill it.
I sort of agree with that. If all the therapists and medications and treatments have failed? If you have struggled with depression your entire life, tried every possible treatment and multiple medications, had many different psychiatric interventions, and modern treatments and medications have failed you?
You can’t just stay in the dark of depression your entire life. Try something different. You have to try, for yourself and your loved ones.
It’s gross to suggest a person suffers for decades and dies in mental agony and doesn’t try to live a better quality of life for their own happiness.
So, what the hell, OP-- try religion. and if that doesn't work, too bad - Christians will tell you that you just need to keep trying to believe and Jesus eventually will save you.
You are speaking for Christians in the absence of the need to do so. I have two suggestions, that either your parents either neglected to teach you, or you were taught, but refuse to abide by:
1. Don’t generalize, especially about people, especially about their deeply held, deeply personal beliefs
2. Don’t speak for a person, or group of people. Let people speak for themselves.
I choose to believe your parents taught you these lessons, and you just need a simple reminder to implement them to be a kind, socially responsible citizen.
No simple reminder needed. Just keep trying to believe and Jesus eventually will save you.
You are toxic. You speak for Christianity when you are not a Christian. You think I need your permission to worship Jesus and His Salvation is a joke? Why do you care how I or anyone else conducts their worship and faith in America- a place founded on complete religious freedom?
There are so many toxic posters here who cannot accept religious freedom is a huge part of being an American. It’s good we can worship as we wish. It makes us the envy of the world.
I believe Americans who are so un-American as to not believe in freedom of religion and do not tolerate freedom of religion should either learn to be respectful of our laws and values and morals, or find a new home in a country that limits the expression and freedom of religion, so they can live peaceful and happy lives.
Google the countries that restrict religion and religious practices and go there…you won’t have to live in a country with religious freedom. It would be better than spending your life obsessively watching religious people, telling religious people their faith is wrong, and speaking for the Christianity you despise so deeply.
It’s very sad to live your life hating something (Christianity) so much. It will be very hard for you your entire life, because religious freedom is not going away. We will continue to worship, pray, speak about our faith, and shine brightly as lights representing God in our communities.
As the saying goes, sucks to be you, but I’d never say that to you seriously. I believe your anger and obsessive hostility and venom against Christianity and Christians comes from irrational fear, self-loathing, and hatred for yourself. No one can hate other people without cause without self-hatred.
So when you post such uncalled for and hateful things, I know it’s coming from a bitter and angry and scared place of self-hatred. Prayers to you. Jesus will save you, too.
Wow - talk about anger and hostility! Two simple sentences encouraging belief inspire paragraphs of attack language. It's so unlike Christ that it's hard to believe an actual Christian would say such things.
You aren’t serious, just trolling because looking in the mirror hurts.
pp must not be a good Christian. A good Christian would not say such hateful things. Even to a stranger on the Internet.
There are no good Christians.
You are a hateful and bigoted anti-theist. An atheist simply doesn’t believe or care about religion or God. Anti-theists actively and obsessively hate religion, religious people, etc.
So tell me, are there good Jewish people? Good Muslim people? Are any religious people good?
That’s not a real post and you know it. Don’t feed the trolls.
I see many posts here claiming that religion, religious people, Christianity specifically, is bad. That Christianity and Christians are mean and harmful to people and for America.
Despite America being founded on absolute freedom to worship however an American desires. Despite every American president coming from a Christian faith tradition; despite the majority of our current elected officials professing a Christian faith, and publicly expressing their Christian belief and attending church, as President Biden and his wife and family do.
If you do not like Christianity, pp, and you think there are no good Christians, there are countries that limit the practice of Christianity and in which being a Christian is severely restricted.
Pew has a comprehensive reporting on this very topic.
" border="0" class="embeddedImage" />
If you are an American that is an anti-theist, and actively dislikes religion, opposes the free exercise of religion and believes religion is harmful, you have places to flee to.
If you want to live in a country that represents your thoughts on restricting religion, Pew shows you who you identify with and what government you would feel comfortable living under.
Straw man yet again. Yes, many negative things about religion are mentioned here, as they should be. But no one has claimed all religious people are bad so stop saying that. And as for wanting a country that restricts religion, the constitution has spoken on that.
There just isn’t compelling evidence a god exists. That’s the entire atheist position. Don’t ascribe any more to it. And try and spot those troll posts before you reply to them. They are not real.
Atheists simply choose to say they don’t believe in God. They don’t get any say in how other people feel about God, including God’s existence, or the personal relationship a person may choose to have via their religious beliefs, with God.
Your personal feelings about God do not impact anyone else’s regarding the existence of God.
Your atheism is how you view the world for you- not the rest of us.
Here you go straw manning again, arguing against positions no one has made.
The facts are you have it exactly backwards, and it is the religious that preach what will happen if we don’t believe, and the nonreligious that simply say what they believe, which is that there isn’t compelling evidence for a God but if you show us some, we will change our position.
What would make you change your position?
What is your faith that God does not exist based on?
DP It's not faith. It's lack of evidence
Plenty of people see evidence of God.
There are no scientific tests or measures to prove or disprove God’s existence.
Why can’t the original pp answer?
I remember a line in Angels and Demons, the movie. A priest asks Tom Hanks's character "Do you believe in God?" And he says something like "No, father, that's a gift I never received." (or something pretty close to that). It always fascinates me how some people are susceptible to this belief (and can abandon common sense) and some just aren't. I wonder if it's genetic. Some people may have the "believer gene" and some just don't."
Tom Hank’s movies are indeed incredible. Basing life choices off of lines written for Tom Hanks, by screenwriters, for Hanks to speak, to make money, is just amazing, friend.
Whether or not God exists cannot be definitely proven. If you don’t believe, that’s your choice, but your disbelief doesn’t negate anyone else’s belief, and vice versa.
Same goes for all the other Gods and imaginary characters throughout history
Constructive conversation between those of different faiths, and believers/nonbelievers, is appropriate. People who just want to stand up and decree why their belief is correct and everyone else is wrong- that’s the problem.
agreed. Hard to do, though if religious believers want to convert people to their particular version of Religion and non-believers want to tell believers how silly religion is.
Often just speaking about your religious beliefs is considered trying to convert someone, which is false.
I can say I believe in God, He created the world, and Jesus Christ is my personal Savior.
That doesn’t make anyone else have to believe as I do.
I have a right to express my religious beliefs. Does doing so convert anyone?
So, do you extend the same freedom to people who tell you they don’t see any evidence for your beliefs? Is that them trying to convert you or convince you?
I have never told an atheist that their beliefs are silly or not valid. Ever. I just have my own deeply held beliefs. Atheists can believe as they wish, that’s an important part of being an American and it’s important to treat other people (even if I don’t agree with them) and their beliefs with respect.
Why do you have to tell other people you see no evidence for their beliefs?
Why do you get to say what your beliefs are and I do not? You didn’t answer that question.
You aren’t talking about your beliefs- you are talking about mine. Your beliefs are that my beliefs are wrong?
That there is no evidence for them. Yes that is my belief.
Why do you need evidence for my beliefs?
Hopefully I need evidence for any beliefs. But let’s try this: write out a sample conversation of you stating your beliefs and me replying. Write it out exactly how you think it should go.
No thanks. I respect your disbelief, have no judgment upon it, am glad we live in a country we can live as we choose. I don’t feel any need to prove to you or me or anyone else that I am right and you are wrong, or to examine why you believe as you do.
I’m not surprised you won’t do that.
It’s because you want it where you can say what you think but no one can disagree.
Sorry not how it works
Your belief is that you are right and everyone else is wrong. You believe that unless you see evidence for something that makes sense to you, everyone else is wrong.
My beliefs are what I think are important and what makes sense to me, brings me comfort, and yes, I believe the evidence I have seen that has led me to my religion. I do not believe anyone has to prove to anyone else they are right to live as they believe.
There is nothing that makes me happy, improves my life, or makes me more or less secure in my religion and life by asking you to provide me evidence to prove your beliefs are valid. You are not subject to my assessment of correctness.
You are an American citizen and due your right to believe or not believe as you choose.
I don’t understand how you feel you must approve everyone’s religion like a teacher grading a test…if people answer your questions right and give you evidence, you will allow their belief. If you feel you have the right or responsibility to inspect people’s beliefs and say anything other than you personally don’t believe, I think you are overstepping your boundaries.
More straw man. Don’t ascribe anything to me without asking. I’ll tell you my beliefs. Nearly everything you have ascribed to me is false.
So tell us your beliefs.
I already have, and you already know, but if you’d like me to repeat, I’ll be happy to:
I have seen no sufficient evidence supporting the existence of a god or gods. Therefore, I see no reason to believe in one. If I do see sufficient evidence of one, I will change my position accordingly.
We know you don’t have religious beliefs. What are your beliefs that do involving religion? No one expects you to have religious beliefs.
Forgive me, I assure I am being sincere, but I don’t understand your post, and if you could try again, and I will reply, I would appreciate it.
Morals?
Values?
Ethical codes?
Do you have any, and what are they?
People who don’t believe in religion still believe in something? Not a higher power. What gives your life meaning?
I think life itself gives itself meaning enough. Every single day. And the things within it. Of course, I have morals and values and ethical codes everybody does, and sometimes they differ.
But make no mistake. None of those things have anything to do with whether or not I believe a god or gods exist.
Ok, could you share what morals and values and ethical codes you believe in? That’s what I am interested in.
This is a religion forum, and I think we should restrict our discussion to that topic.
I’m not surprised you won’t do that.
It’s because you want it where you can say what you think but no one can disagree.
Sorry not how it works.
What an epic fail. You think that was clever? You think that has any correlation to the post you copy? It doesn’t. Pathetic.
It’s strawman and non-sequitur yet again.
Now how about you present your evidence for your god?
Your entire personality is based upon hating religion, and demanding American citizens with constitutionally protected rights to believe and worship however they choose show you “evidence” of their beliefs.
Atheists are the biggest Karens of all time.
I don’t believe for a second you have any morals or values that are worth much, as you don’t respect the constitution and fancy yourself a self-appointed hall monitor, making demands for “evidence.” Then, when asked about your morals and values, you say it’s not necessary to discuss them- and nobody even asked you for evidence to prove your viewpoint. How about you list your morals, values, and ethics, and for each one provide a comprehensive piece of evidence to prove everything about them? We need to evaluate historical origin and take stock of your claims to assess value, make sure it’s an appropriate way to think and live.
So much wrong with your post:
No my entire personality is not based on hating religion.
I only ask for evidence when claims are made. No claim, no evidence required. Show evidence and I will change my mind. Easy peasy!
I don’t care what you think my values are. I am a good and kind and generous person . Your ad hominems don’t change that. This is the religion forum, as pointed out. Stay on topic and don’t straw man. Oh and the pejorative “karen” that you use is both sexist and stupid. But we’re not talking about values, including the poor ones you just demonstrated.
I’ll politely wait for your evidence.
What kind of evidence are you seeking? Like really, what would it look like? Are you imagining that you can someone find God physically somewhere? Find some mysterious wavelength that sounds like God? Some magical incantation that can help you channel God and perform miracles? Seriously, what qualitative kind of evidence are you seeking?
Any kind. The best you have.
The fact that the world exists? The fact that it is (and we assume it is) intelligible? The fact that all humans throughout history have strived for the divine (we have the God gene if you will)? The fact that only humans (vs other animals) are capable of such deep evil?
These are reasons people believe in God, not evidence of God's existence.
Here are some other reasons people believe: because of childhood indoctrination; because of fear of going to hell (which is also an unproven belief); because it feels good thinking that there's a guy in the sky looking out for you; because of fear of the consequences of even considering that there might not be a god; because it seems easier in a culture where the majority of people believe in god, or at least say they do.
Definition of evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
The fact that the world exists and is intelligible is fact/information indicating that someone/something with intelligence created it/formed it into being. And actually, the alternate belief that this world popped out of nowhere is so illogical it's more akin to believing in leprechauns. Imagine if you came upon anything well constructed thing in this world, that had intelligence and logic behind it. You would think someone made it, not that it just appeared out of thin air.
The fact that all humans across time and space have desired for God is a fact/information pointing to his existence (we can't long for something we don't know or that doesn't exist and no other animals have this longing). The fact that humans alone are capable of evil is a great mystery that only Christianity has a satisfying answer to, thus pointing to its truth. Of course, none of these definitively prove God's existence, but are definitely evidence. Evidence that you don't accept and that's ok. But again, they are evidence that point more to theism than atheism.
Atheism is a personal decision, and just because you don’t think there is enough evidence to believe in God, doesn’t mean other people don’t personally have enough evidence to believe in God.
Personally I disagree that it is a decision. I never decided to not beleive in god just as you never decided not to believe in Bigfoot. You say people personally have enough evidence, I am simply asking them for it. They don't have to respond or provide it. The easiest thing is to ignore it. But I would hope we can have an open discussion and an open mind. I promise you if I see evidence of a god I will instantly begin believing in one. Can you say the same?
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You don’t think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t believe in God.
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t not believe in God.
People here have multiple cows because they think people are “proselytizing,” but them will post multiple times asking for Christians to give evidence and prove God to them . How about live your God free life not thinking about God 24/7/365? If you were really happy and fulfilled and busy in your life, you’d not spend more time debating and thinking about God than many Christian people.
Please give an example of how you'd like a conversation to go here, between someone who believes and someone who does not. You can script it out if you like.
Oh goody. Sample conversation poster, asking for another script. Here goes:
You: Write a script for our conversation regarding this issue.
Me: ok.
Me: I have evidence of the existence of God, and have a personal relationship with Him. You do not have evidence you have seen that God exists, and you do not believe in Him.
You: Can you show me evidence to prove God exists?
Me: Believing that God exists is a personal choice, and everyone has a different relationship with God. I cannot make you believe in God.
You: That makes sense. You have every right to believe in God, and I respect your religious beliefs, even if I have different beliefs/opinions/views.
Me: And I respect your disbelief, you have every right to not believe in God. If you don’t believe God exists, that is just the way it is. You have a right to feel your feelings and act/live accordingly. Nothing this far in your life has made God exist for you, and I highly doubt I can convince you. Aren’t atheists/anti-theists against “proselytizing” and dislike it when people talk about religion and “ram their religion down people’s throats?” I don’t feel like “ramming my belief” down your throat and trying to convince you how to live your life.
You: I understand, I am going to the movies with my friends and then having a late dinner at this really great Greek restaurant.
Atheism is a personal decision, and just because you don’t think there is enough evidence to believe in God, doesn’t mean other people don’t personally have enough evidence to believe in God.
Personally I disagree that it is a decision. I never decided to not beleive in god just as you never decided not to believe in Bigfoot. You say people personally have enough evidence, I am simply asking them for it. They don't have to respond or provide it. The easiest thing is to ignore it. But I would hope we can have an open discussion and an open mind. I promise you if I see evidence of a god I will instantly begin believing in one. Can you say the same?
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You don’t think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t believe in God.
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t not believe in God.
People here have multiple cows because they think people are “proselytizing,” but them will post multiple times asking for Christians to give evidence and prove God to them . How about live your God free life not thinking about God 24/7/365? If you were really happy and fulfilled and busy in your life, you’d not spend more time debating and thinking about God than many Christian people.
Please give an example of how you'd like a conversation to go here, between someone who believes and someone who does not. You can script it out if you like.
Oh goody. Sample conversation poster, asking for another script. Here goes:
You: Write a script for our conversation regarding this issue.
Me: ok.
Me: I have evidence of the existence of God, and have a personal relationship with Him. You do not have evidence you have seen that God exists, and you do not believe in Him.
You: Can you show me evidence to prove God exists?
Me: Believing that God exists is a personal choice, and everyone has a different relationship with God. I cannot make you believe in God.
You: That makes sense. You have every right to believe in God, and I respect your religious beliefs, even if I have different beliefs/opinions/views.
Me: And I respect your disbelief, you have every right to not believe in God. If you don’t believe God exists, that is just the way it is. You have a right to feel your feelings and act/live accordingly. Nothing this far in your life has made God exist for you, and I highly doubt I can convince you. Aren’t atheists/anti-theists against “proselytizing” and dislike it when people talk about religion and “ram their religion down people’s throats?” I don’t feel like “ramming my belief” down your throat and trying to convince you how to live your life.
You: I understand, I am going to the movies with my friends and then having a late dinner at this really great Greek restaurant.
Me: cool.
The end.
Awesome. My favorite part is where I get to say my beliefs, just like you got to.
Oh, wait...
And my second favorite part is where you answer the question I ask, which is how conversations work.
Atheism is a personal decision, and just because you don’t think there is enough evidence to believe in God, doesn’t mean other people don’t personally have enough evidence to believe in God.
Personally I disagree that it is a decision. I never decided to not beleive in god just as you never decided not to believe in Bigfoot. You say people personally have enough evidence, I am simply asking them for it. They don't have to respond or provide it. The easiest thing is to ignore it. But I would hope we can have an open discussion and an open mind. I promise you if I see evidence of a god I will instantly begin believing in one. Can you say the same?
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You don’t think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t believe in God.
That’s the thing that gets me: nobody has to believe in God. You think there is a God, bully for you. But your decision doesn’t mean other people can’t not believe in God.
People here have multiple cows because they think people are “proselytizing,” but them will post multiple times asking for Christians to give evidence and prove God to them . How about live your God free life not thinking about God 24/7/365? If you were really happy and fulfilled and busy in your life, you’d not spend more time debating and thinking about God than many Christian people.
Please give an example of how you'd like a conversation to go here, between someone who believes and someone who does not. You can script it out if you like.
Oh goody. Sample conversation poster, asking for another script. Here goes:
You: Write a script for our conversation regarding this issue.
Me: ok.
Me: I have evidence of the existence of God, and have a personal relationship with Him. You do not have evidence you have seen that God exists, and you do not believe in Him.
You: Can you show me evidence to prove God exists?
Me: Believing that God exists is a personal choice, and everyone has a different relationship with God. I cannot make you believe in God.
You: That makes sense. You have every right to believe in God, and I respect your religious beliefs, even if I have different beliefs/opinions/views.
Me: And I respect your disbelief, you have every right to not believe in God. If you don’t believe God exists, that is just the way it is. You have a right to feel your feelings and act/live accordingly. Nothing this far in your life has made God exist for you, and I highly doubt I can convince you. Aren’t atheists/anti-theists against “proselytizing” and dislike it when people talk about religion and “ram their religion down people’s throats?” I don’t feel like “ramming my belief” down your throat and trying to convince you how to live your life.
You: I understand, I am going to the movies with my friends and then having a late dinner at this really great Greek restaurant.
Me: cool.
The end.
Awesome. My favorite part is where I get to say my beliefs, just like you got to.
Oh, wait...
And my second favorite part is where you answer the question I ask, which is how conversations work.
Oh, wait again...
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly, and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong. No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God. You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
That's your prerogative. I responded to each of your points, averaging 3 sentences or so. If that's too much for you, no worries, just ignore it. People will decide what they think your motivation is for stepping away from a discussion you were perfectly willing to have previously.
Anonymous wrote:I suspect this is her way of trying to shut you down because she doesn’t want to discuss your depression with you any further. Which I supposed is tantamount to her trying to end the friendship. It sucks. There’s more being written these days about how much a friend breakup sucks that you might want to seek out.
Is she catholic....they gaslight you when you are depressed. This is not a friend you want.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
I'd say because non-religious poster has backed you into a corner where you have no cogent response, in your own opinion. Why? because previously you haven't hesitated to respond.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
I'd say because non-religious poster has backed you into a corner where you have no cogent response, in your own opinion. Why? because previously you haven't hesitated to respond.
DP. No, because Christian pp made her point, which is that she’s secure on her faith and isn’t demanding atheist pp convert. Atheist pl just won’t let go so she changes the question a bit. Nobody has time for that.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
I'd say because non-religious poster has backed you into a corner where you have no cogent response, in your own opinion. Why? because previously you haven't hesitated to respond.
DP. No, because Christian pp made her point, which is that she’s secure on her faith and isn’t demanding atheist pp convert. Atheist pl just won’t let go so she changes the question a bit. Nobody has time for that.
As far as I can tell, no one is telling anyone else they have to convert, just to support their claims. There is a gigantic difference. If PP doesn't feel it is worth their time to support their claims or simply can't so chooses not to, the result is the same so I guess we'll have to speculate which.
Anonymous wrote:I suspect this is her way of trying to shut you down because she doesn’t want to discuss your depression with you any further. Which I supposed is tantamount to her trying to end the friendship. It sucks. There’s more being written these days about how much a friend breakup sucks that you might want to seek out.
Is she catholic....they gaslight you when you are depressed. This is not a friend you want.
It might not be malicious though. They think they are doing you a favor. Nonetheless, pp is right - this is not a friend you want.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
I'd say because non-religious poster has backed you into a corner where you have no cogent response, in your own opinion. Why? because previously you haven't hesitated to respond.
DP. No, because Christian pp made her point, which is that she’s secure on her faith and isn’t demanding atheist pp convert. Atheist pl just won’t let go so she changes the question a bit. Nobody has time for that.
+1 This is 100% correct. Currently eating a delicious meal at a restaurant, and then going to a movie with IRL friends. Have fun arguing on the internet all day, again.
Dude, you don’t believe in God. You talk about your non-belief constantly,
Uhh, you don't know me, and no I don't, only at times, such as when discussing religion in a religion forum. I know when you would like me to discuss it, which is never, illustrated perfectly by your script of how you'd like it to go.
and no one tells you you have to believe in God, no one tells you your disbelief in God is wrong.
This is completely untrue, here and in the world. But I don't care if people tell me that their belief is right and mine is wrong, and I am completely willing to have a discussion about it, and will change my mind if sufficient evidence is presented. Will you?
No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God.
Want me to copy and paste all the times believers say presuppositional BS like "if you won't accept the truth that is your problem" and "you'll learn in the afterlife" and stuff like that? Hell just drive down the highway near my house, every fifth billboard is telling me I am wrong to not believe. So I think it will be hard for you to say anything more wrong or easily disproved than "No one tries to convince you to believe in God. People here respect your disbelief in God".
You are the one demanding many believers show evidence of their beliefs. As a Christian, I am happy to share my faith with anyone who asks. But if you don’t ask, I am not going to try to show you evidence and try to convince you my beliefs are right.
But we are asking here, this is a fricking forum designed to discuss religion, not the checkout line at the supermarket. There's no other reason to be here other than to discuss this. This is exactly, and by (human!) design, the appropriate place to have that discussion.
I am not reading all that.
I'd say because non-religious poster has backed you into a corner where you have no cogent response, in your own opinion. Why? because previously you haven't hesitated to respond.
DP. No, because Christian pp made her point, which is that she’s secure on her faith and isn’t demanding atheist pp convert. Atheist pl just won’t let go so she changes the question a bit. Nobody has time for that.
+1 This is 100% correct. Currently eating a delicious meal at a restaurant, and then going to a movie with IRL friends. Have fun arguing on the internet all day, again.
Lol this makes me laugh so hard! I am enjoying life unlike you people arguing on the internet says the guy while arguing on the internet! You can’t make this stuff up!
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