Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the size of the "gamble" related to the size of the club? Some big clubs have crap teams and some small clubs have good teams. It looks like the application fee for state cup is $400.

Big clubs also have several teams they can use to fill out the roster for the State Cup team.

Yes and no. There is a roster limit and the roster does lock, so there is no ability to use a form of player pass. State Cup forces you to dance with the girl you brought with you.

True, but when you set that roster, you can include a few players from the B team. Not sure what the limits are, but they're definitely bigger than the typical league roster.

and for CCL:
A team may have no more than five Club Pass Players in any game and no more than the maximum number of total players permitted for that age group: U9-U10: 12 players, U11-U12: 14 players; U13-U19: 18 players. Although a 22 man roster is permitted for U14-U19 teams, only 18 players may be present in uniform to play in league games and remaining players may remain on sidelines if not in uniform.

So no, the rosters are not "definitely bigger than the typical league roster."

But when you're talking about Club Passes, either in CCL or NCSL, you're already talking about bigger clubs, and you're already talking about a "roster" that includes some players that are going to play most weeks on the "B" team but may be rostered for the "A" team for State Cup or the occasional CCL/NCSL game. The State Cup teams I've seen are generally 70 percent-ish "A" team and 30 percent-ish "B" team. If your club is already moving players up and down with regularity, then it may seem seamless.

We're splitting hairs, anyway -- this is only one of the reasons smaller clubs (or independent teams registered through VISTA or elsewhere) aren't likely to enter State Cup.

CCL was only used as an example of typical league roster size limits. Essentially, State Cup rosters are the same size as any league permits. There are many valid reasons why smaller club teams may not wish to enter into State Cup, but roster size is not one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
And many small clubs don't care (nor do the players) about State Titles. I say that as somebody whose kids left a CCL club due to shitty training. State Titles are NOT a factor in my choosing a club for my kids. I earned 4 State titles and a Regional title myself and it did nothing to improve me as a player.

Player development and coaching staff are the utmost importance...and a 'feeling'. We are so much happier and the players and staff are much better. Many of the players train Internationally over the breaks. They have a world view, not a State view.

It's intimate and the level of training is light-years above our old big...churn 'em out, don't make eye contact with parents former club. The Technical staff knows all of the players down to the 7-year olds. In fact, they invest time building from the bottom up.

We came from a place where all of the emphasis was on the older players. The TDs had nothing to do with the younger players and there was zero club philosophy or style of play. It was pretty much---just grab up the best players from elsewhere at 14/15 to keep winning titles. No loyalty or investment in those from the ground up.

Where is this club that has a style of play ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And many small clubs don't care (nor do the players) about State Titles. I say that as somebody whose kids left a CCL club due to shitty training. State Titles are NOT a factor in my choosing a club for my kids. I earned 4 State titles and a Regional title myself and it did nothing to improve me as a player.

Player development and coaching staff are the utmost importance...and a 'feeling'. We are so much happier and the players and staff are much better. Many of the players train Internationally over the breaks. They have a world view, not a State view.

It's intimate and the level of training is light-years above our old big...churn 'em out, don't make eye contact with parents former club. The Technical staff knows all of the players down to the 7-year olds. In fact, they invest time building from the bottom up.

We came from a place where all of the emphasis was on the older players. The TDs had nothing to do with the younger players and there was zero club philosophy or style of play. It was pretty much---just grab up the best players from elsewhere at 14/15 to keep winning titles. No loyalty or investment in those from the ground up.

Where is this club that has a style of play ?

Of the clubs that I have seen/experienced, BRYC and Alexandria clearly teach a possession style of play throughout the club (at least on the girls side).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the size of the "gamble" related to the size of the club? Some big clubs have crap teams and some small clubs have good teams. It looks like the application fee for state cup is $400.

Big clubs also have several teams they can use to fill out the roster for the State Cup team.

Yes and no. There is a roster limit and the roster does lock, so there is no ability to use a form of player pass. State Cup forces you to dance with the girl you brought with you.

True, but when you set that roster, you can include a few players from the B team. Not sure what the limits are, but they're definitely bigger than the typical league roster.

and for CCL:
A team may have no more than five Club Pass Players in any game and no more than the maximum number of total players permitted for that age group: U9-U10: 12 players, U11-U12: 14 players; U13-U19: 18 players. Although a 22 man roster is permitted for U14-U19 teams, only 18 players may be present in uniform to play in league games and remaining players may remain on sidelines if not in uniform.

So no, the rosters are not "definitely bigger than the typical league roster."

But when you're talking about Club Passes, either in CCL or NCSL, you're already talking about bigger clubs, and you're already talking about a "roster" that includes some players that are going to play most weeks on the "B" team but may be rostered for the "A" team for State Cup or the occasional CCL/NCSL game. The State Cup teams I've seen are generally 70 percent-ish "A" team and 30 percent-ish "B" team. If your club is already moving players up and down with regularity, then it may seem seamless.

We're splitting hairs, anyway -- this is only one of the reasons smaller clubs (or independent teams registered through VISTA or elsewhere) aren't likely to enter State Cup.

CCL was only used as an example of typical league roster size limits. Essentially, State Cup rosters are the same size as any league permits. There are many valid reasons why smaller club teams may not wish to enter into State Cup, but roster size is not one of them.

Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is the size of the "gamble" related to the size of the club? Some big clubs have crap teams and some small clubs have good teams. It looks like the application fee for state cup is $400.

Big clubs also have several teams they can use to fill out the roster for the State Cup team.

Yes and no. There is a roster limit and the roster does lock, so there is no ability to use a form of player pass. State Cup forces you to dance with the girl you brought with you.

True, but when you set that roster, you can include a few players from the B team. Not sure what the limits are, but they're definitely bigger than the typical league roster.

and for CCL:
A team may have no more than five Club Pass Players in any game and no more than the maximum number of total players permitted for that age group: U9-U10: 12 players, U11-U12: 14 players; U13-U19: 18 players. Although a 22 man roster is permitted for U14-U19 teams, only 18 players may be present in uniform to play in league games and remaining players may remain on sidelines if not in uniform.

So no, the rosters are not "definitely bigger than the typical league roster."

But when you're talking about Club Passes, either in CCL or NCSL, you're already talking about bigger clubs, and you're already talking about a "roster" that includes some players that are going to play most weeks on the "B" team but may be rostered for the "A" team for State Cup or the occasional CCL/NCSL game. The State Cup teams I've seen are generally 70 percent-ish "A" team and 30 percent-ish "B" team. If your club is already moving players up and down with regularity, then it may seem seamless.

We're splitting hairs, anyway -- this is only one of the reasons smaller clubs (or independent teams registered through VISTA or elsewhere) aren't likely to enter State Cup.

CCL was only used as an example of typical league roster size limits. Essentially, State Cup rosters are the same size as any league permits. There are many valid reasons why smaller club teams may not wish to enter into State Cup, but roster size is not one of them.

Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

Oh please do tell what club committed a "ton" of ECNL kids for State Cup. That is a load of crap.

ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

Why would you need to round out the roster of your State Cup team barring a highly unusual amount of injuries? I've heard lots of reports that quite a few State Cup teams stack their rosters with a significant number of ECNL players with the goal of helping the team win, and in so doing leave many non-ECNL players who are usually contributors on the bench. Here's an article about this topic from a couple of years back:

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/virginia-state-cup-how-three-of-four-girls-champions-used-ecnl-players-to-win/

This won't be allowable under DA rules for the clubs who join the DA on the girls side, which I think will make things a lot fairer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

Oh please do tell what club committed a "ton" of ECNL kids for State Cup. That is a load of crap.

ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

As should be clear from the context, the ECNL/WAGS example wasn't in reference to State Cup. I mentioned ECNL players "playing down" in WAGS, where they were unmotivated, to put it mildly.

It was just an example of how clubs' approaches may differ to their "A" and "B" teams.

I don't know any girls' State Cup teams, so I can't speak to how they're rostered for the Cup. I can just tell you I've seen boys teams in State Cup with a healthy contingent of B team players called up.

[Anonymous]

There are girls' State Cup teams that roster a healthy contingent of ECNL players to their State Cup roster

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

Oh please do tell what club committed a "ton" of ECNL kids for State Cup. That is a load of crap.

ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

As should be clear from the context, the ECNL/WAGS example wasn't in reference to State Cup. I mentioned ECNL players "playing down" in WAGS, where they were unmotivated, to put it mildly.

It was just an example of how clubs' approaches may differ to their "A" and "B" teams.

I don't know any girls' State Cup teams, so I can't speak to how they're rostered for the Cup. I can just tell you I've seen boys teams in State Cup with a healthy contingent of B team players called up.

LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

Why would you need to round out the roster of your State Cup team barring a highly unusual amount of injuries? I've heard lots of reports that quite a few State Cup teams stack their rosters with a significant number of ECNL players with the goal of helping the team win, and in so doing leave many non-ECNL players who are usually contributors on the bench. Here's an article about this topic from a couple of years back:

http://www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-girls/virginia-state-cup-how-three-of-four-girls-champions-used-ecnl-players-to-win/

This won't be allowable under DA rules for the clubs who join the DA on the girls side, which I think will make things a lot fairer.

Because not every club maxes out their rosters to the league limit to ensure that kids get playing time. But with something like State Cup, where rosters freeze, it is simply safe to max the roster out in case of injury or other needs arise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

Oh please do tell what club committed a "ton" of ECNL kids for State Cup. That is a load of crap.

ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

As should be clear from the context, the ECNL/WAGS example wasn't in reference to State Cup. I mentioned ECNL players "playing down" in WAGS, where they were unmotivated, to put it mildly.

It was just an example of how clubs' approaches may differ to their "A" and "B" teams.

I don't know any girls' State Cup teams, so I can't speak to how they're rostered for the Cup. I can just tell you I've seen boys teams in State Cup with a healthy contingent of B team players called up.

LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

I'm not the one what made the claim, which I also find highly suspect, but the only possible choice is Bethesda. Of the local ECNL clubs, FCV's second teams play VPL; McLean and MdUnited's second teams play CCL. Bethesda is the only one with B teams that play in WAGS, unless this poster making the even more ludicrous claim that ECNL teams are having players play down with C or D teams in WAGS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

I'm not the one what made the claim, which I also find highly suspect, but the only possible choice is Bethesda. Of the local ECNL clubs, FCV's second teams play VPL; McLean and MdUnited's second teams play CCL. Bethesda is the only one with B teams that play in WAGS, unless this poster making the even more ludicrous claim that ECNL teams are having players play down with C or D teams in WAGS.

This was a few years ago. CCL wasn't in the equation at the time. Maybe WAGS has changed the rules since then. (Or, I suppose, we're now talking about NCSL rules.) But even if not, there's a simple way to do it. Tell 25 kids they're ECNL players and tell 8 kids they're WAGS players. But when you turn in your rosters, make sure you have 15 on the WAGS roster.

ECNL allows 30 -- THIRTY!!! -- players on a team roster. They can only suit up 18 for a game. Do the other 12 just sit around?
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/?page_id=1302

Geez -- people get defensive about the weirdest things!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

I'm not the one what made the claim, which I also find highly suspect, but the only possible choice is Bethesda. Of the local ECNL clubs, FCV's second teams play VPL; McLean and MdUnited's second teams play CCL. Bethesda is the only one with B teams that play in WAGS, unless this poster making the even more ludicrous claim that ECNL teams are having players play down with C or D teams in WAGS.

This was a few years ago. CCL wasn't in the equation at the time. Maybe WAGS has changed the rules since then. (Or, I suppose, we're now talking about NCSL rules.) But even if not, there's a simple way to do it. Tell 25 kids they're ECNL players and tell 8 kids they're WAGS players. But when you turn in your rosters, make sure you have 15 on the WAGS roster.

ECNL allows 30 -- THIRTY!!! -- players on a team roster. They can only suit up 18 for a game. Do the other 12 just sit around?
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/?page_id=1302

Geez -- people get defensive about the weirdest things!

McLean consistently has ECNL players in CCL matches, as well as FCV consistently has ECNL players in VPL matches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes and no. CCL and most NCSL clubs will typically have 18 or maybe fewer players per team, not 22. So they will fill out the roster with B teamers.

Big clubs may do all sorts of things with creative rosters. I knew a club with an ECNL team and a WAGS D1 team that rostered a ton of kids for ECNL and only a handful for WAGS, so a lot of ECNL kids "played down" much of the time. (And they weren't particularly well motivated.)

A VISTA team or a Cugini team isn't as likely to have that much flexibility. Some clubs may have one team in an age group. Some may have two teams that aren't at the 18-player limit -- maybe 30-32 combined between two teams -- and they might not have enough players to cover the additional games.

Is that the main reason why they won't enter State Cup? Probably not. And I don't know to which club the OP was referring. But just for the record, it is a small factor.

Oh please do tell what club committed a "ton" of ECNL kids for State Cup. That is a load of crap.

ECNL clubs will put some ECNL players on State Cup to round out the rosters but never a majority. State Cup will not schedule around ECNL schedule conflicts and ECNL schedules are set in stone so it would be quite stupid for a club to commit a majority of a State Cup Team with ECNL players. your facts are wrong.

As should be clear from the context, the ECNL/WAGS example wasn't in reference to State Cup. I mentioned ECNL players "playing down" in WAGS, where they were unmotivated, to put it mildly.

It was just an example of how clubs' approaches may differ to their "A" and "B" teams.

I don't know any girls' State Cup teams, so I can't speak to how they're rostered for the Cup. I can just tell you I've seen boys teams in State Cup with a healthy contingent of B team players called up.

LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

I'm not the one what made the claim, which I also find highly suspect, but the only possible choice is Bethesda. Of the local ECNL clubs, FCV's second teams play VPL; McLean and MdUnited's second teams play CCL. Bethesda is the only one with B teams that play in WAGS, unless this poster making the even more ludicrous claim that ECNL teams are having players play down with C or D teams in WAGS.

Bethesda's B teams for older kids play in EDP or Region 1. There are sometimes a handful of players on an EDP team that are double rostered to the ECNL team, but those players don't typically get to play much in ECNL. I don't believe Bethesda ever has full time ECNL players play in State Cup matches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL what club is having their kids ECNL kids play in WAGS?

First, WAGS only allows so many guest players

Second, There is no player pass between U.S. Club Soccer and WAGS. So no, sorry to burst your bubble but ECNL kids are not playing in WAGS unless there is a dire roster need.

This is laughable.

I'm not the one what made the claim, which I also find highly suspect, but the only possible choice is Bethesda. Of the local ECNL clubs, FCV's second teams play VPL; McLean and MdUnited's second teams play CCL. Bethesda is the only one with B teams that play in WAGS, unless this poster making the even more ludicrous claim that ECNL teams are having players play down with C or D teams in WAGS.

This was a few years ago. CCL wasn't in the equation at the time. Maybe WAGS has changed the rules since then. (Or, I suppose, we're now talking about NCSL rules.) But even if not, there's a simple way to do it. Tell 25 kids they're ECNL players and tell 8 kids they're WAGS players. But when you turn in your rosters, make sure you have 15 on the WAGS roster.

ECNL allows 30 -- THIRTY!!! -- players on a team roster. They can only suit up 18 for a game. Do the other 12 just sit around?
http://www.eliteclubsnationalleague.com/?page_id=1302

Geez -- people get defensive about the weirdest things!

Even if it was a few years ago, I still think you're full of it. WAGS policy was that players could not "play down" from a higher team. Here's a link to a 2012 hearing (several years ago) where BRYC got fined and forfeited a game because Lula over at LMVSC was offended that they had a CCL player fill in for a team without a goalie. http://wagsl.com/Rules-Discipline/Meeting-Minutes/631735.html
So it's highly unlikely that an ECNL player could play for a WAGS team unless she was dual-rostered on the WAGS team, in which case she's not playing down, but is only playing on a team that she's rostered on.