Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Who are you? Why is everyone else trafficking in false narratives and hearsay and you are not? If you can't identify yourself as a real authority on the matter than shut up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Sure, anyone can enroll in an honors class with no criteria whatsoever of test scores or teacher recommendations. There is no background or previous experience to show they can do the work. Let’s just throw any child in there that wants to take it. Let’s have kids be 2, 3 grade levels apart. Sure no problems.....

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Thank you!

Please identify how to get this information from “the source” I went to the parents information night and it certainly was not offered up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Thank you!

Please identify how to get this information from “the source” I went to the parents information night and it certainly was not offered up there.

Email: [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Please identify how to get this information from “the source” I went to the parents information night and it certainly was not offered up there.

Here's the FAQ from the Wilson site:

https://www.wilsonhs.org/ourpages/auto/2011/4/12/49270996/Honors%20for%20All%20FAQ%2011_2017.docx

Two things jumped out at me. First, part of the "why did we do this":

The quantitative data clearly show significant differences in participation and results along demographic lines. The qualitative information revealed heretofore unspoken reasons for the quantitative results, and left little doubt that there are pervasive sources of bias throughout the academic system. Teachers at one feeder middle school recommended virtually all of their students for honors courses at Wilson, whereas teachers at another feeder school recommended virtually none. Students recounted the unexpected social signals they experienced, in anecdotes that were repeated frequently and provoked head nods from others. “I walked in and the teacher asked: ‘Are you sure you are in the right classroom?’” “I knew the answer, but my study group members wouldn’t accept it.” “My middle school classes were much more diverse. What happened at Wilson?”

And the "How will we ensure that all students will be challenged?" section:

The curriculum is not less rigorous than the former honors classes. Teachers are using standard and accepted measures, such as Lexile scores, to ensure that the level of challenge remains the same.

Finally, the contact for questions is Rachel Laser at [e-mail].

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Please identify yourself. You are very invested in selling your narrative that I think you must be an insider. If so, why not say who you are to give credence to what you are saying? Otherwise, you just have an opinion like everyone else commenting here.

Shame, but I am certain you won't do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Who are you? Why is everyone else trafficking in false narratives and hearsay and you are not? If you can't identify yourself as a real authority on the matter than shut up.

I'm an involved parent at Wilson and I know who to go to. I don't need to identify myself. People spread lies all the time on this site. If you are too dumb to figure out how to get truthful information I can't help you.

And you're probably to stupid to understand how the false narratives that are spread on this thread hurts students, especially white students at Wilson. So go shove it.

[Anonymous]

^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.

Who are you? Why is everyone else trafficking in false narratives and hearsay and you are not? If you can't identify yourself as a real authority on the matter than shut up.

Exactly, agree or else this is an administration from the school or DCPS pushing their agenda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^Ahhh, now I get it. You can't question whether HFA may be hurting more advanced students because that might suggest you as a parent have done your dc some disservice when it comes to her education. No reason to have such a chip on your shoulder. However, please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse for those that don't just buy the party line and actually question what is going on regarding the education of our dc's. Its not personal to you and at the end of the day, we are all parents seeking to do the best for our children.

DP. Please stop. I’m the white parent of a possible future Wilson student, and the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents, which is frankly a little worrying. I assume most Wilson parents are not like this, but the most vocal ones seem to be. If your primary concern is that your child be in classes with other smart kids from educated families, you are doing him or her absolutely no favors, because kids from families like that are not going to want their child in a school where the other parents are like you.

I’d be happy to have my kid in PP’s kid’s class. I’ve got an scarily smart child, and I expect DCPS to meet his need for challenge and acceleration, the same as all students’ needs should be met.

+1

This is hilarious.
Anonymous poster 1 "please don't attempt to stomp out any public discourse"
Anonymous poster 2 "[...] the impression you and the other parents arguing against HFA on this thread are giving is of a student cohort with intellectually unsophisticated, ignorant and obsessive parents[...]"

I guess poster 2 did not hear poster 1.
I guess poster 2 is a bully, and thinks writing "IN FACT", "FULL STOP" and "shove it" is sophisticated and effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

What your daughter's experience shows is that private school honors classes are more rigorous than Wilson honors classes. Not a big shock. What it doesn't show is what we're actually discussing --- the difference, if any, between an honors class at Wilson pre-HFA and the same class now under HFA.

The Wilson honors curriculum is the same. The Wilson honors class syllabus is the same. Posters with experience of the process AT WILSON are telling you that teachers are going out of their way to make the classes the same. Because your daughter took some other honors class at some other school at some point in time, you believe you know better than people with experience of what's happening AT WILSON. That's not convincing to me, but go for it.

Disagree. The honors classes at her school are more rigorous because there are hard expectations and standards of what the class will cover and the students who were there could do the work. So let’s just read in between the lines of this poster and say it for what it is. Wilson is eliminating regular classes which is the lowest level and putting everyone who are not in the AP classes into this HFA classes. Admin is asserting the curriculum and content will be the same rigor. I call that BS. The teachers will attempt it but won’t work with throwing kids who should be in the regular class into the honors class. Because we know DCPS won’t fail those kids who can’t keep up. So there will be grade inflation or the rigor of the course won’t be taught at the level it should. This is how it’s going to play out.