Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You distort every point ever so slightly to create the adversary you wish you had so you can be the good guy. Typical privileged white dude yelling at not privileged white dudes to watch their privilege.

Racism is absolutely a problem today. It is not, however, the driver of 90% of the decisions or opinions that posters on DCUM like to call racist. In the rare occasions that one accepts that it isn't the driver, one brings up the definition of racism that makes it an institutional problem. Therefore if your statement or action isn't actively anti-racist or seeking equity, it is racist. That isn't sustainable.

I didn't see the PP you bullied say that racism and white privilege don't exist. She did say that they are used as just a tactic to shut down debate. Just because a baseball bat is used as a weapon doesn't mean it isn't also bona fide sports equipment.

Show us the curriculum that there will be remedial classes. The 2 levels of physics class is HFA and AP from someone who previously posted said. These 2 levels are not good enough with the wide spread.

What do YOU believe drives the achievement gap at Wilson? How would you address is? Do you believe a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions (segregated schools, closed professions, restrictive deeds, segregated public facilities, employment discrimination, government investment in homeownership overwhelmingly in white neighborhoods) has anything to do with this achievement gap or not? If not, what do you think are the causes?

I don't have time to be an armchair sociologist. That's for rich white dudes.
I don't think cramming four grade levels in one physics classroom is a solution to a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions. Why would you?

You have time to type three paragraphs of totally ad hominem attacks, but not to discuss policy?

To answer your question, I have said a bunch of times that I doubt HFA is the solution. I do get why thoughtful, well meaning people support it. It has certainly already achieved one explicit goal meant to address the long history of unequal treatment -- namely getting more kids of color into honors and AP classes. That's awesome. Also, several posters have posted observational research indicating that de-tracking raised achievement levels for minority kids without lowering achievement levels of white kids.

However, other studies suggest that the results in big districts that have tried it on a large scale have not had good results (the Chicago study). It's important to discuss results like these and come up with ways to address documented unequal treatment and unequal results with the best outcomes for everyone.

What's not useful is strawman arguments about "cramming people into physics classes". As I understand it, kids who are multiple years behind will still have remedial classes available. And there will still be at least two levels of physics classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You distort every point ever so slightly to create the adversary you wish you had so you can be the good guy. Typical privileged white dude yelling at not privileged white dudes to watch their privilege.

Racism is absolutely a problem today. It is not, however, the driver of 90% of the decisions or opinions that posters on DCUM like to call racist. In the rare occasions that one accepts that it isn't the driver, one brings up the definition of racism that makes it an institutional problem. Therefore if your statement or action isn't actively anti-racist or seeking equity, it is racist. That isn't sustainable.

I didn't see the PP you bullied say that racism and white privilege don't exist. She did say that they are used as just a tactic to shut down debate. Just because a baseball bat is used as a weapon doesn't mean it isn't also bona fide sports equipment.

Show us the curriculum that there will be remedial classes. The 2 levels of physics class is HFA and AP from someone who previously posted said. These 2 levels are not good enough with the wide spread.

What do YOU believe drives the achievement gap at Wilson? How would you address is? Do you believe a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions (segregated schools, closed professions, restrictive deeds, segregated public facilities, employment discrimination, government investment in homeownership overwhelmingly in white neighborhoods) has anything to do with this achievement gap or not? If not, what do you think are the causes?

I don't have time to be an armchair sociologist. That's for rich white dudes.
I don't think cramming four grade levels in one physics classroom is a solution to a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions. Why would you?

You have time to type three paragraphs of totally ad hominem attacks, but not to discuss policy?

To answer your question, I have said a bunch of times that I doubt HFA is the solution. I do get why thoughtful, well meaning people support it. It has certainly already achieved one explicit goal meant to address the long history of unequal treatment -- namely getting more kids of color into honors and AP classes. That's awesome. Also, several posters have posted observational research indicating that de-tracking raised achievement levels for minority kids without lowering achievement levels of white kids.

However, other studies suggest that the results in big districts that have tried it on a large scale have not had good results (the Chicago study). It's important to discuss results like these and come up with ways to address documented unequal treatment and unequal results with the best outcomes for everyone.

What's not useful is strawman arguments about "cramming people into physics classes". As I understand it, kids who are multiple years behind will still have remedial classes available. And there will still be at least two levels of physics classes.

The 2 levels of physics is HFA and AP as someone posted. Have the principal show us then the remedial classes. BTW the higher you go in grades, the lower the probability you will close the achievement gap. The best way to address this is elementary school or if you can’t the poor performing feeder school into Wilson. Its not offering HFA from 9th to 11th or whatever grades.

[Anonymous]

It sure looks like HFA does free up money to pay the consultant who suggested it.

[Anonymous]

Also for AP parents, if you think your child will not be affected because they are in the AP program, think again. I hear some AP classes already have 40 students. If that is true, and they are planning on taking teachers away from AP, then has the principal given us numbers as to how many students will be in AP classes? 60?? How many?? How many AP parents think their child will get as good of an experience with AP with that many students? How many AP parents think that the teacher will be able to effectively meet the needs of all the students in the AP class?

[Anonymous]

Screw the AP kids. Screw the kids who are at grade level and above. Move all the resources to the ones with PARCC scores 1 and 2 who are 1-3 grade levels below.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Screw the AP kids. Screw the kids who are at grade level and above. Move all the resources to the ones with PARCC scores 1 and 2 who are 1-3 grade levels below.

How about this:
50% resources to PARCC scores 1 and 2;
25% resources to PARCC scores 3 and above;
25% resources to agitator consultants.

And don't worry, agitated parents will spend so much time tearing each other apart over the 75% resources, they won't notice the last 25% is missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Screw the AP kids. Screw the kids who are at grade level and above. Move all the resources to the ones with PARCC scores 1 and 2 who are 1-3 grade levels below.

How about this:
50% resources to PARCC scores 1 and 2;
25% resources to PARCC scores 3 and above;
25% resources to agitator consultants.

And don't worry, agitated parents will spend so much time tearing each other apart over the 75% resources, they won't notice the last 25% is missing.

lol I like you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You distort every point ever so slightly to create the adversary you wish you had so you can be the good guy. Typical privileged white dude yelling at not privileged white dudes to watch their privilege.

Racism is absolutely a problem today. It is not, however, the driver of 90% of the decisions or opinions that posters on DCUM like to call racist. In the rare occasions that one accepts that it isn't the driver, one brings up the definition of racism that makes it an institutional problem. Therefore if your statement or action isn't actively anti-racist or seeking equity, it is racist. That isn't sustainable.

I didn't see the PP you bullied say that racism and white privilege don't exist. She did say that they are used as just a tactic to shut down debate. Just because a baseball bat is used as a weapon doesn't mean it isn't also bona fide sports equipment.

What do YOU believe drives the achievement gap at Wilson? How would you address is? Do you believe a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions (segregated schools, closed professions, restrictive deeds, segregated public facilities, employment discrimination, government investment in homeownership overwhelmingly in white neighborhoods) has anything to do with this achievement gap or not? If not, what do you think are the causes?

Hey there good questions and hopefully this can be productive

I am the person calling out that too many people use racism and white privilege as a means to end debate poster by the way. I am interested in actual solutions I like questions like this.

In 2019 the achievement gap at Wilson is primarily driven by parenting or lack there of which is connected to low SES high at-risk vs higher SES low levels of at-risk

People who are lower at-risk and generally higher SES levels generally understand that educating your child starts from birth. It's not enough to rely on a school to teach your child. You need to actively engage with them, read to them, ask them interesting questions. All of this needs to be occuring again from birth. And the 0-5 age range is the most critical time in this process

People who are high at-risk generally lower SES levels generally have all sorts of stresses in their lives. They either don't understand or don't have time to actively engage with their child, read to them or ask interesting questions. Often the home is chaotic and loud which detracts from development.

From the time students enter school there is a large achievement gap. It is very hard to close this gap. Closing the achievement gap has been the focus of education reformers for at least 25 years now and the gap is barely budging

To close the achievement gap you need to educate parents how to actually parent. I would require parenting classes before birth. I would have home visits when kids are growing up. I would build on programs like ensuring every child has books they can read etc. I would encourage mentorship, community members mentoring parents.

I would also argue that concentrated poverty is also a problem but I think that is much harder to correct. Zoning could help but it is a much bigger problem and I think focusing on encouraging strong parenting practices is the most cost effective solution.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In DC there is a large racial connection to SES levels. There are many higher SES levels whites and many lower SES level blacks. There are also higher SES level blacks both in DC and PG county and all over the country. These higher SES levels blacks prove that in 2019 that main cause and factor of the achievement gap is parenting not racial issues. There are plenty of low income asians and Africans who have highly successful children. Again this is a result of solid and focused parenting not racial or even SES issues.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that every 12 to 18 months another story comes out about how DCPS or individual schools within DCPS manipulate test score, attendance rates, graduation rates, etc. So against that backdrop HFA looks like another in a long line of desperate attempts at a feel good narrative. Its not fooling anyone, but it makes people feel good for a little while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that every 12 to 18 months another story comes out about how DCPS or individual schools within DCPS manipulate test score, attendance rates, graduation rates, etc. So against that backdrop HFA looks like another in a long line of desperate attempts at a feel good narrative. Its not fooling anyone, but it makes people feel good for a little while.

Its a desperate situatuon, which is why dcps keeps throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

This one will also drag down students who want to learn. I guess thats one way of closing the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You distort every point ever so slightly to create the adversary you wish you had so you can be the good guy. Typical privileged white dude yelling at not privileged white dudes to watch their privilege.

Racism is absolutely a problem today. It is not, however, the driver of 90% of the decisions or opinions that posters on DCUM like to call racist. In the rare occasions that one accepts that it isn't the driver, one brings up the definition of racism that makes it an institutional problem. Therefore if your statement or action isn't actively anti-racist or seeking equity, it is racist. That isn't sustainable.

I didn't see the PP you bullied say that racism and white privilege don't exist. She did say that they are used as just a tactic to shut down debate. Just because a baseball bat is used as a weapon doesn't mean it isn't also bona fide sports equipment.

What do YOU believe drives the achievement gap at Wilson? How would you address is? Do you believe a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions (segregated schools, closed professions, restrictive deeds, segregated public facilities, employment discrimination, government investment in homeownership overwhelmingly in white neighborhoods) has anything to do with this achievement gap or not? If not, what do you think are the causes?

Hey there good questions and hopefully this can be productive

I am the person calling out that too many people use racism and white privilege as a means to end debate poster by the way. I am interested in actual solutions I like questions like this.

In 2019 the achievement gap at Wilson is primarily driven by parenting or lack there of which is connected to low SES high at-risk vs higher SES low levels of at-risk

People who are lower at-risk and generally higher SES levels generally understand that educating your child starts from birth. It's not enough to rely on a school to teach your child. You need to actively engage with them, read to them, ask them interesting questions. All of this needs to be occuring again from birth. And the 0-5 age range is the most critical time in this process

People who are high at-risk generally lower SES levels generally have all sorts of stresses in their lives. They either don't understand or don't have time to actively engage with their child, read to them or ask interesting questions. Often the home is chaotic and loud which detracts from development.

From the time students enter school there is a large achievement gap. It is very hard to close this gap. Closing the achievement gap has been the focus of education reformers for at least 25 years now and the gap is barely budging

To close the achievement gap you need to educate parents how to actually parent. I would require parenting classes before birth. I would have home visits when kids are growing up. I would build on programs like ensuring every child has books they can read etc. I would encourage mentorship, community members mentoring parents.

I would also argue that concentrated poverty is also a problem but I think that is much harder to correct. Zoning could help but it is a much bigger problem and I think focusing on encouraging strong parenting practices is the most cost effective solution.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In DC there is a large racial connection to SES levels. There are many higher SES levels whites and many lower SES level blacks. There are also higher SES level blacks both in DC and PG county and all over the country. These higher SES levels blacks prove that in 2019 that main cause and factor of the achievement gap is parenting not racial issues. There are plenty of low income asians and Africans who have highly successful children. Again this is a result of solid and focused parenting not racial or even SES issues.

But you are talking about solutions that affect what happens outside of the building. There is a growing body of evidence that in home visits work as well as (Baltimore has a great program) as well as pre-k for all. I fully acknowledge as an African American parent with kids at Wilson that much can be done on that front - but it's not a problem that Wilson can address effectively.

Let's not use parenting as a scapegoat for inaction. Also you cannot separate race from SES. It's not possible.

We need to be specific and work in the spheres where we do have influence - the solutions need to focus on what is happening in the building.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

You distort every point ever so slightly to create the adversary you wish you had so you can be the good guy. Typical privileged white dude yelling at not privileged white dudes to watch their privilege.

Racism is absolutely a problem today. It is not, however, the driver of 90% of the decisions or opinions that posters on DCUM like to call racist. In the rare occasions that one accepts that it isn't the driver, one brings up the definition of racism that makes it an institutional problem. Therefore if your statement or action isn't actively anti-racist or seeking equity, it is racist. That isn't sustainable.

I didn't see the PP you bullied say that racism and white privilege don't exist. She did say that they are used as just a tactic to shut down debate. Just because a baseball bat is used as a weapon doesn't mean it isn't also bona fide sports equipment.


[/quote]

What do YOU believe drives the achievement gap at Wilson? How would you address is? Do you believe a long history of unequal treatment of black people by civil institutions (segregated schools, closed professions, restrictive deeds, segregated public facilities, employment discrimination, government investment in homeownership overwhelmingly in white neighborhoods) has anything to do with this achievement gap or not? If not, what do you think are the causes?[/quote]

Hey there good questions and hopefully this can be productive

I am the person calling out that too many people use racism and white privilege as a means to end debate poster by the way. I am interested in actual solutions I like questions like this.

In 2019 the achievement gap at Wilson is primarily driven by parenting or lack there of which is connected to low SES high at-risk vs higher SES low levels of at-risk

People who are lower at-risk and generally higher SES levels generally understand that educating your child starts from birth. It's not enough to rely on a school to teach your child. You need to actively engage with them, read to them, ask them interesting questions. All of this needs to be occuring again from birth. And the 0-5 age range is the most critical time in this process

People who are high at-risk generally lower SES levels generally have all sorts of stresses in their lives. They either don't understand or don't have time to actively engage with their child, read to them or ask interesting questions. Often the home is chaotic and loud which detracts from development.

From the time students enter school there is a large achievement gap. It is very hard to close this gap. Closing the achievement gap has been the focus of education reformers for at least 25 years now and the gap is barely budging

To close the achievement gap you need to educate parents how to actually parent. I would require parenting classes before birth. I would have home visits when kids are growing up. I would build on programs like ensuring every child has books they can read etc. I would encourage mentorship, community members mentoring parents.

I would also argue that concentrated poverty is also a problem but I think that is much harder to correct. Zoning could help but it is a much bigger problem and I think focusing on encouraging strong parenting practices is the most cost effective solution.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In DC there is a large racial connection to SES levels. There are many higher SES levels whites and many lower SES level blacks. There are also higher SES level blacks both in DC and PG county and all over the country. These higher SES levels blacks prove that in 2019 that main cause and factor of the achievement gap is parenting not racial issues. There are plenty of low income asians and Africans who have highly successful children. Again this is a result of solid and focused parenting not racial or even SES issues. [/quote]

But you are talking about solutions that affect what happens outside of the building. There is a growing body of evidence that in home visits work as well as (Baltimore has a great program) as well as pre-k for all. I fully acknowledge as an African American parent with kids at Wilson that much can be done on that front - but it's not a problem that Wilson can address effectively.

Let's not use parenting as a scapegoat for inaction. Also you cannot separate race from SES. It's not possible.

We need to be specific and work in the spheres where we do have influence - the solutions need to focus on what is happening in the building. [/quote]

dp: But it’s ridiculous to think that a high school can solve problems much bigger and precedent to its building. That’s why the school should keep its focus on providing an optimal education for all students rather than on policy. Principal Martin should switch to a policy-related field if she wants to have a real impact on the fundamental issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that every 12 to 18 months another story comes out about how DCPS or individual schools within DCPS manipulate test score, attendance rates, graduation rates, etc. So against that backdrop HFA looks like another in a long line of desperate attempts at a feel good narrative. Its not fooling anyone, but it makes people feel good for a little while.

Its a desperate situatuon, which is why dcps keeps throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

This one will also drag down students who want to learn. I guess thats one way of closing the achievement gap.

You hit it on the burron. As an EOTP parent reading this thread, that’s how it plays here. There is no honors or AP options. Kids of all academic abilities are placed together and the school says the teacher is able to differentiate. Reality is the kids from the middle class families are not challenged, bored, and parents have to scramble to find tutors and supplement which is a significant cost.

In addition, lots of behavior issues in the classroom which detracts learning of all the students in the class. No middle class families are sending their kids to middle schools (except SH which has honors) or high school. DCPS thinks that spending millions of dollars renovating poor performing schools will attract families. It hasn’t. Middle class families are going to charter schools or moving. Until there is real class tracking and the kids needs are met, it won’t be happening. Don’t let this happen to Wilson which is the only in-boundary high school to provide this. The other few high schools (SWW, Bennekar, etc..) are test in and not considered a neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that every 12 to 18 months another story comes out about how DCPS or individual schools within DCPS manipulate test score, attendance rates, graduation rates, etc. So against that backdrop HFA looks like another in a long line of desperate attempts at a feel good narrative. Its not fooling anyone, but it makes people feel good for a little while.

Its a desperate situatuon, which is why dcps keeps throwing crap against the wall hoping it will stick.

This one will also drag down students who want to learn. I guess thats one way of closing the achievement gap.

You hit it on the burron. As an EOTP parent reading this thread, that’s how it plays here. There is no honors or AP options. Kids of all academic abilities are placed together and the school says the teacher is able to differentiate. Reality is the kids from the middle class families are not challenged, bored, and parents have to scramble to find tutors and supplement which is a significant cost.

In addition, lots of behavior issues in the classroom which detracts learning of all the students in the class. No middle class families are sending their kids to middle schools (except SH which has honors) or high school. DCPS thinks that spending millions of dollars renovating poor performing schools will attract families. It hasn’t. Middle class families are going to charter schools or moving. Until there is real class tracking and the kids needs are met, it won’t be happening. Don’t let this happen to Wilson which is the only in-boundary high school to provide this. The other few high schools (SWW, Bennekar, etc..) are test in and not considered a neighborhood school.

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