Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If the content of the two classes is different, which it is, then the classes are different. The content of the class is not determined by who is taking the class.

If there is no “Physics” class to compare it to, then the curriculum of Honors Physics can’t be different from the Physics curriculun.

It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Oh with that you mean parents will have to supplement even more than what they are doing now because their child is not challenged enough when courses are dumb down to the lowest common denominator? No it’s not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that the majority of parents at Wilson are putting up with us this with not just 9th grade but being extended to 11th? Are you kidding?

The courses are not being “dumbed down.” If you have evidence for that happening, show it to us. Otherwise, please stop complaining about your child being placed in a class with children whom you are, apparently, obsessed with keeping out of his or her classroom.

PP, did you go to high school?

Boarding school. Does that count?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Oh with that you mean parents will have to supplement even more than what they are doing now because their child is not challenged enough when courses are dumb down to the lowest common denominator? No it’s not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that the majority of parents at Wilson are putting up with us this with not just 9th grade but being extended to 11th? Are you kidding?

The courses are not being “dumbed down.” If you have evidence for that happening, show it to us. Otherwise, please stop complaining about your child being placed in a class with children whom you are, apparently, obsessed with keeping out of his or her classroom.

PP, did you go to high school?

Boarding school. Does that count?

Apparently not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Oh with that you mean parents will have to supplement even more than what they are doing now because their child is not challenged enough when courses are dumb down to the lowest common denominator? No it’s not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that the majority of parents at Wilson are putting up with us this with not just 9th grade but being extended to 11th? Are you kidding?

The courses are not being “dumbed down.” If you have evidence for that happening, show it to us. Otherwise, please stop complaining about your child being placed in a class with children whom you are, apparently, obsessed with keeping out of his or her classroom.

PP, did you go to high school?

Boarding school. Does that count?

That’s a joke, right? Of course boarding school doesn’t count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Oh with that you mean parents will have to supplement even more than what they are doing now because their child is not challenged enough when courses are dumb down to the lowest common denominator? No it’s not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that the majority of parents at Wilson are putting up with us this with not just 9th grade but being extended to 11th? Are you kidding?

The courses are not being “dumbed down.” If you have evidence for that happening, show it to us. Otherwise, please stop complaining about your child being placed in a class with children whom you are, apparently, obsessed with keeping out of his or her classroom.

PP, did you go to high school?

Boarding school. Does that count?

NP. Oh, a limousine liberal that has no personal experience but is sanctimonious with those of us dealing with the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

Oh with that you mean parents will have to supplement even more than what they are doing now because their child is not challenged enough when courses are dumb down to the lowest common denominator? No it’s not unbelievable. What is unbelievable is that the majority of parents at Wilson are putting up with us this with not just 9th grade but being extended to 11th? Are you kidding?

The courses are not being “dumbed down.” If you have evidence for that happening, show it to us. Otherwise, please stop complaining about your child being placed in a class with children whom you are, apparently, obsessed with keeping out of his or her classroom.

PP, did you go to high school?

Boarding school. Does that count?

NP. Oh, a limousine liberal that has no personal experience but is sanctimonious with those of us dealing with the reality.

Educated, though.

[Anonymous]

Educated, but no experience with being in a high school class of 30-40 students of widely ranging academic abilities and motivation levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Educated, but no experience with being in a high school class of 30-40 students of widely ranging academic abilities and motivation levels.

I’m certainly going through the precise equivalent of that experience right now, on this thread, however. And I must say you’re beginning to convince me. Sadly, my elitism is tending in the direction of increasing intolerance for the presence of poorly educated parents of children at Wilson who cannot understand that having their child share a classroom with, how shall I put this, “diverse” children is not going to harm their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors for all is being extended to 11th grade next year. I was told 11th grade science choices next year are Honors physics, AP physics and AP chem.

Unbelievable.

“Unbelievable,” eh? I never thought I’d say this, but thank God for the DCPS administration and their willingness to push back against parents like you. I think you, and all the parents who think like you, should take responsibility for your own children and stop blaming any issues with their learning on the mere presence, in your child’s classroom, of children whom you, for whatever reason, do not approve of.

DP: There’s just no logic to this. If it’s the class that everyone can take, then it is “Physics.”

It makes no sense to think that mis-labeling something as “Honors” achieves sone real-world impact.

If the content of the two classes is different, which it is, then the classes are different. The content of the class is not determined by who is taking the class.

If there is no “Physics” class to compare it to, then the curriculum of Honors Physics can’t be different from the Physics curriculun.

Exactly. So really it’s not Honors Physics if you don’t have a physics class below it. So everyone taking physics is in an honors or AP physics if there is only those 2 options.

[Anonymous]

I have no problem with HFA. I just wish there were a stronger group of teachers in ninth grade. That needs at be administration’s focus. Not easy to change this but critical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Educated, but no experience with being in a high school class of 30-40 students of widely ranging academic abilities and motivation levels.

I’m certainly going through the precise equivalent of that experience right now, on this thread, however. And I must say you’re beginning to convince me. Sadly, my elitism is tending in the direction of increasing intolerance for the presence of poorly educated parents of children at Wilson who cannot understand that having their child share a classroom with, how shall I put this, “diverse” children is not going to harm their kids.

Do you realize everyone *hears* in your writing that you're trolling right now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not about having something "to compare it to." The issue being discussed is the curriculum being taught in the classes, call it whatever you want ("physics", "honors physics", "super extra special physics"). The content of honors physics next year will be the same as the content of honors physics this year. No classes will be taught using the curriculum of the current on-level physics class.

One problem with this approach is that kids who worked hard and barely passed on level classes using the old curriculum (which covered less material) will REALLY struggle to pass a class that covers more material in the same amount of time. I know a kid who left Wilson after freshman year for this reason.

Another problem is that kids who can pass honors or AP physics but aren't excited about being there, don't care about an AP test score and don't want to do the work will check out and distract kids like mine (bright kids with learning disabilities for whom it takes every bit of concentration that they have to keep up with what's going on in their honors/AP class load). This is already a problem this year with one of my kid's AP classes -- it's a huge class, most kids don't care, the teacher doesn't maintain control, 25 kids talk or play on their phones during class and 3 kids pay attention.

Ironically, the posts who are pearl clutching about their extra super high achieving snowflakes will be the ones least negatively impacted by this change.

Maybe this is irrelevant but in my day, you didn't take AP unless you really wanted to. Certainly it wasn't de facto honors, it was very difficult to pass and you needed to pay attention. If AP today is dumbed down to Honors, then Honors can be dumbed down to the regular level.

I agree that a child who has a hard time with the material in any of these classes is going to be lost. Where do those kids go? I also agree that it's silly to name something Honors when there is no Non-Honors. It's like a meaningless badge.

Please realize that this notion of "dumbed down" exists entirely and solely in the minds of posters on this thread who seem very upset that there won't be lower, less prestigious sounding classes for them to compare their kids too. That seems like a really odd thing to focus on.

If people are thrown by names, let's call the courses Physics 6, Physics zeta and Physics blue. Let's assume that in Physics 6, students used to study 10 chapters of material. In Physics zeta, they studied 15, and in Physics blue, they studied 20 chapters and took at test at the end that would count for college credit at some universities.

Wilson admin decided to get rid of Physics 6, and now everyone must take Physics zeta (and cover 15 chapters of material) or Physics blue (20 chapters plus a high stakes test). No chapters are removed from the curriculum of either of the remaining physics classes. Nothing is dumbed down from a curriculum or expectations or testing perspective. Now do you get it?

Just stop. I think the HFA is admirable but lets not deceive ourselves that it is as rigorous as an honors class when non-honors is also offered. My dc transferred into Wilson from a private this year where she took honors classes. I asked her opinion, based on her actual experience, on the rigor of the honors class at her private compared to Wilson. She said the private was more rigorous and the teachers made a point of saying they were doing x,y,z because it was an honors class and would be taught as such. The students were expected to keep up and were only in the class because a determination was made they could do the work at that level.

Again, what Wilson is attempting is admirable but to think they are meeting all students academic needs with this model is ridiculous.

Right, the problem is that I doubt Wilson is ok with failing 50% of their physics class. So in theory it's exactly, exactly the same as always, just that all kids have to take it. In practice there is absolutely no way.

For the last friggin' time - can you all please go to the admin and teachers who are responsible for this? They did a lot to make the classes rigorous and IN FACT there was a drop in grades. The data points are there for people to see. Please stop trafficking in false narratives and hearsay - ask the questions of the folks who can answer best.

The program has captured students of color who were able to do the work. FULL STOP. Please get your facts and info. from the source.