Eight People Shot in Black Church in Charleston, South Carolina

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 9 people dead and new developments in the story but this thread is flooded with argument over a freaking flag. Really?

Maybe start a new thread for the flag debate so people can discuss what happened and actually find updates.

Honestly, I think this piece is relevant because at the beginning of the thread there were folks who doubted this was terrorism, or that it was racialized. The South African flags and the appreciation for the Confederacy are integral to dispelling that idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 9 people dead and new developments in the story but this thread is flooded with argument over a freaking flag. Really?

Maybe start a new thread for the flag debate so people can discuss what happened and actually find updates.

You are looking for news updates on this site, AN OPINION BOARD, instead of a reputable news outlet?
Seriously??

Sometimes people come across an article and post it. Sometimes other people haven't seen that article and want to read it.

[Anonymous]

So I will say, that I think he is probably racist (though his FB friends list might indicate otherwise), he is crazy/mentally-ill (which does not mean he is NOT competent to stand trial), he will get the death penalty...I suspect the trial could go smoothly like the Jesse Matthews trial, or maybe be made into a circus, if the media chooses to do so. I fear the later.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:There are 9 people dead and new developments in the story but this thread is flooded with argument over a freaking flag. Really?

Maybe start a new thread for the flag debate so people can discuss what happened and actually find updates.

This poster is correct and I apologize for my own contribution to the discussion.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Looks like a fake nose in addition to a wig. I hope people don't fall for any insanity bullshit - this was obviously premeditated and the killer wants to get away with it.

Crazy people can be intelligent and excellent planners. Mental illness is just not the irrational, mumbling homeless people you see wondering the D.C. streets.
Mental illness is an insidious, awful thing that is manifested in myriad ways.

Crazy comes in degrees. I am sure most people have some degree of crazy. Stop making excuses for this criminal. He wasn't too crazy to not know what he was doing was wrong. He disguised himself and possibly wore body armor to protect himself.

Not PP, but how is saying he's crazy an excuse? There is no excuse. But to perpetrate something like this, you must have issues. You just have to. Doesn't mean you are incapable of planning and executing the plan.

Thanks - I am the one to whom pp was responding. I don't understand when people say calling someone crazy is excusing their actions. That is dumb as hell. Crazy or sane, if you are dangerous you need to be locked up somewhere. How is that excusing anything? This right here is how and why we have broken mental health system in this country, we think identifying and understanding mental illness is excusing it. Stupid.

If you want people to accept mental illness as an excuse, then you have to accept it for all groups of people. It is always an excuse for whites, but other racial groups are automatically assumed criminal without any regards to their mental state. Now, that's dumb as hell.

More than one person told you that mental illness is not an excuse. Yet you continue to pander about your own delusions. Can't you read?

Then stop using it as an excuse, reason, or validation. He is a mass murderer. A thug. A criminal. A monster. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses of varying degrees and they are not murderes, thugs, monsters.

Yes. You can rightfully call him all of these things. Why does it bother you so much that he also is clearly mentally ill?

It doesn't. He may or not be. What bothers me is that when the murderer is white, that is the immediate go to, as if white people would never kill unless affected by mental illness. What bothers me is the hypocrisy so many of you display.

But we're not talking about any kind of killing. There is such a thing as a rational killing and this is not it. Oddly, most (not all, but most) recent mass murderers and serial killers in this country are white males. Of course they're mentally ill. WHO THE F*CK WOULD DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T? Would anyone question that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill? Of course not. He freaking ATE people! That's doesn't mean he wasn't a monster. Why can't I say this f*cked up individual was an evil monster and also acknowledge that he is mentally ill? Psychopathy is a mental illness, is it not? I would say the same about the beltway snipers. How does that make me a hypocrite?

[Anonymous]

I am so devastated over this. I can't get anything done - just glued to the tv. I am so heartbroken for not only the families of the victims but everyone in that congregation. To have your sanctuary violated in that way, how horrible. When I was a teen our church was vandalized and graffiti was sprayed all over the inside, I remember how awful that was, I cannot even imagine going through this.

Has anything been said about any warning signs? I wonder why his internet history will look like.

[Anonymous]

Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the mental excuse is thrown out there by those who dont want to even consider or discuss that there is a race component in the situation.

if its about race or race is involved, people have to talk about it and its easier to discuss the broad problem of mental issue as opposed to race. admitting a racial element to it means you admit we still have racial issues in the country and to some, people think that the race issue is primarily a figment of folks imagination as opposed to real.

Well, everyone seems to pick and choose what to focus on to suit their political purposes, and it's kind of the same way ever time. Most such discussions aren't very illuminating.

It seems to me that there is kind of a continuum between coldly rational mass murder and flat-out craziness. This incident seems to me to tend to more of the former---it has a Beltway Sniper/Anders Brevik/Ft. Hood/Columbine flavor where while "mental illness" might be a contributing factor in some ways but does not seem a dominant factor, vs. a Sandy Hook/Aurora theater/Virginia Tech shooting where more extreme mental illness seemed to be in play. I think this incident is more "evil" than "crazy," although it is not fashionable to use that term anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like a fake nose in addition to a wig. I hope people don't fall for any insanity bullshit - this was obviously premeditated and the killer wants to get away with it.

Crazy people can be intelligent and excellent planners. Mental illness is just not the irrational, mumbling homeless people you see wondering the D.C. streets.
Mental illness is an insidious, awful thing that is manifested in myriad ways.

Crazy comes in degrees. I am sure most people have some degree of crazy. Stop making excuses for this criminal. He wasn't too crazy to not know what he was doing was wrong. He disguised himself and possibly wore body armor to protect himself.

Not PP, but how is saying he's crazy an excuse? There is no excuse. But to perpetrate something like this, you must have issues. You just have to. Doesn't mean you are incapable of planning and executing the plan.

Thanks - I am the one to whom pp was responding. I don't understand when people say calling someone crazy is excusing their actions. That is dumb as hell. Crazy or sane, if you are dangerous you need to be locked up somewhere. How is that excusing anything? This right here is how and why we have broken mental health system in this country, we think identifying and understanding mental illness is excusing it. Stupid.

If you want people to accept mental illness as an excuse, then you have to accept it for all groups of people. It is always an excuse for whites, but other racial groups are automatically assumed criminal without any regards to their mental state. Now, that's dumb as hell.

More than one person told you that mental illness is not an excuse. Yet you continue to pander about your own delusions. Can't you read?

Then stop using it as an excuse, reason, or validation. He is a mass murderer. A thug. A criminal. A monster. There are plenty of people with mental illnesses of varying degrees and they are not murderes, thugs, monsters.

Yes. You can rightfully call him all of these things. Why does it bother you so much that he also is clearly mentally ill?

It doesn't. He may or not be. What bothers me is that when the murderer is white, that is the immediate go to, as if white people would never kill unless affected by mental illness. What bothers me is the hypocrisy so many of you display.

But we're not talking about any kind of killing. There is such a thing as a rational killing and this is not it. Oddly, most (not all, but most) recent mass murderers and serial killers in this country are white males. Of course they're mentally ill. WHO THE F*CK WOULD DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T? Would anyone question that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill? Of course not. He freaking ATE people! That's doesn't mean he wasn't a monster. Why can't I say this f*cked up individual was an evil monster and also acknowledge that he is mentally ill? Psychopathy is a mental illness, is it not? I would say the same about the beltway snipers. How does that make me a hypocrite?

What you are failing to see is that the other poster is saying the the usual/general go to narrative when there is an alleged black perpetrator is that the black perpetrator is a "thug","animal", "evil". And this is the language that is used to describe an array of black male alleged perpetrators whether they are alleged to have committed a mass killing or playing with a toy gun in the park.
The go-to for alleged black killers is that they are evil and less than human, they are not described with adjectives that suggest that they are humans with mental defects. It is another manifestation of institutionalized and often unacknowledged racism in this society.
Get it?
That does not mean that this young guy is not crazy. Dude can be crazy and there can also be racism in our society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

[Anonymous]

Other topics to discuss (speculate on) besides the flag are:

What was his father thinking in gifting him a gun for his 21st birthday?

If his father knew he was mentally ill or at risk for perpetuating this crime, could he be charged with providing material assistance to terrorism?

Where was he for the 14 hours between the shooting and being stopped? Did he have help hiding?

What do folks think of the president's remarks? http://t.co/GYLKTRFuQ3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

Well duh, I'm not saying black dudes never get taken into custody I'm being obtuse to make a point.
Oh - and since you like rambling off names, ramble off the names of some white suspects who got killed as opposed to taken into custody.

I'll wait.

[Anonymous]

But we're not talking about any kind of killing. There is such a thing as a rational killing and this is not it. Oddly, most (not all, but most) recent mass murderers and serial killers in this country are white males. Of course they're mentally ill. WHO THE F*CK WOULD DO THAT IF THEY WEREN'T? Would anyone question that Jeffrey Dahmer was mentally ill? Of course not. He freaking ATE people! That's doesn't mean he wasn't a monster. Why can't I say this f*cked up individual was an evil monster and also acknowledge that he is mentally ill? Psychopathy is a mental illness, is it not? I would say the same about the beltway snipers. How does that make me a hypocrite?

Also, Jeffrey Dahmer was found guilty, his plea "guilty by reason of insanity" was denied. There were things that Dahmer did that showed he clearly knew what he was doing, even though he was mentally ill. Also, he would not have gone to such great lengths to hide what he was doing if he was sane.

[Anonymous]

The Confederacy was about slavery. Just read the constitutions of the states that left the Union. They were quite specific why they left. Their flag is a symbol of that. Why are there always Lost Causers?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old from Eastover, S.C., was arrested during a traffic stop in Shelby, N.C., just after 11 a.m. and taken into custody.

GIMMIE MY $5!!!!

If a non-white man was suspected of flicking a rubber band at a cashier in McDonald's 10 officers would have pulled him over and emptied their clips in his ass lol. Unbelievable.

Please stop.
Jesse Matthews.
Daron Wint.

Well duh, I'm not saying black dudes never get taken into custody I'm being obtuse to make a point.
Oh - and since you like rambling off names, ramble off the names of some white suspects who got killed as opposed to taken into custody.

I'll wait.

The guy in Dallas just the other day. They shot him with a 50 caliber.