GT/AAP Appeals WISC Scores

[Anonymous]

Maybe a solution would be for FCPS to WISC every child who doesn't get accepted into AAP in the first round (whether in-pool or parent/teacher-referred). It would cut down the expense of WISCing every single 2nd grader (which I've seen proposed on DCUM), but would still be a last resort for those kids whose parents don't know about or can't afford the WISC. Yes, there would still be some high potential kids who never make it to the screening committee at all, but there might be fewer of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a solution would be for FCPS to WISC every child who doesn't get accepted into AAP in the first round (whether in-pool or parent/teacher-referred). It would cut down the expense of WISCing every single 2nd grader (which I've seen proposed on DCUM), but would still be a last resort for those kids whose parents don't know about or can't afford the WISC. Yes, there would still be some high potential kids who never make it to the screening committee at all, but there might be fewer of them.

If they did this, then tons of parents will start parent referring just so their kids could get tested. I'm not sure what is wrong with the current system (the private WISCing). If you can afford it great. If you choose not to allocate your money that way, then good for your family. If you cannot afford it, there are reduced fee options with GMU, who people on the board have said is quite good. If you fall somewhere in between - not qualifying for the reduced fees, but feel like you cannot afford it - then perhaps there might be some other method of appropriation of finances in your family, or maybe not. I guess the families that are hit with this the most, are those that fall in between.

I personally think there are lots of famlies that "think" they fall in between, but really the education is not their priority. If you can blow $400 on a single birthday party, of $1000 on travel soccer, then you can definitely afford testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 cents:

GBRS are based on at least 2 professional's assements, not just the teacher but also the AART, and approved by a principal. It is true that the AART may not know a child well that it's mainly the 2nd grade teacher. For my DC, I know the AART had substantive input. Of course one can disagree and question the score. GBRS are subjective by definition. Not sure what "pure" subjective means.

IMO parents who get a WISC for their child are not buying their way into AAP. Some childeren may be bored or shy and not shine in class to get a strong GBRS (11 or 12+). They also may be close on the COGAT and/or NNAT. The WISC is another metric and probably the best in terms of measuring cognitive abilities. The child still has to score in the gifted range to get in to AAP. Also, as good as teachers are, there is no way for them to know a child's abilities as well as a parent. So I say let parents WISC. I do not understand parents that aren't eligible for subsidized testing to say they don't want to pay $400 for the test. If you truly believe your child belongs in the class then sacrafice something... make it happen. The only way a parent is buying into the program is if they pay for fake test results.

BTW, MY DC found eligible this year with no WISC.

+1

+2

[Anonymous]

I can afford the Wisc, but I know people living from paycheck to paycheck (no savings) with all of the income covering expenses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 2 cents:

GBRS are based on at least 2 professional's assements, not just the teacher but also the AART, and approved by a principal. It is true that the AART may not know a child well that it's mainly the 2nd grade teacher. For my DC, I know the AART had substantive input. Of course one can disagree and question the score. GBRS are subjective by definition. Not sure what "pure" subjective means.

IMO parents who get a WISC for their child are not buying their way into AAP. Some childeren may be bored or shy and not shine in class to get a strong GBRS (11 or 12+). They also may be close on the COGAT and/or NNAT. The WISC is another metric and probably the best in terms of measuring cognitive abilities. The child still has to score in the gifted range to get in to AAP. Also, as good as teachers are, there is no way for them to know a child's abilities as well as a parent. So I say let parents WISC. I do not understand parents that aren't eligible for subsidized testing to say they don't want to pay $400 for the test. If you truly believe your child belongs in the class then sacrafice something... make it happen. The only way a parent is buying into the program is if they pay for fake test results.

BTW, MY DC found eligible this year with no WISC.

+1

Good for you and +1 to what you said

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:shouldn't be, perhaps. But it is what it is. Sorry, I don't see how that is snotty. I mean what would all the for-profit testers do if people couldn't submit a WISC after their kids bombed the CigAT and GBRS? Have you no heart?

oops. CogAt

Arguments could go both ways on this and I guess the county is fair enough to realize both sides. GBRS is pure subjective measurement on how the teacher feels about your child at the end of the day. yes I know it is "supposed" to be fair and pure academic but one could argue most of those kids whose mom "volunteered" get high GBRS vs. those working moms who could never meet with the teacher except for parent teacher conference. Specially, when your child is bright and doing good the chances are you never meet the teacher except for that one time meeting one month into the school year. So low GBRS AND high WISC IQ score is the result. What is fair, IMO, is how much you are willing to fight for it!

Excellent point!

What a paranoid piece of nonsense! GBRS has nothing to do with whether a parent volunteers, though I'm sure some people use this belief to delude themselves as to why their children weren't identified as gifted.

I take it your snowflake got in with a good GBRS, right?

To this day I have no idea what my child's GBRS was, though it could have been low given how introverted he is. I had nothing to do with him getting in which was primarily driven by his test scores and AART's belief that that was where he belonged. It is not that difficult to find the kids who fit the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can afford the Wisc, but I know people living from paycheck to paycheck (no savings) with all of the income covering expenses.

When people are living this way, they have bigger problems than just the WISC. What if their car breaks down? That could easily cost $400 like WISC, or more. What if they need a new HVAC system at $5,000+? Would they then have no car or no heat/AC? Somehow they would find a way to scrape together the needed dollars. Even bigger financial losses could happen. What if someone loses their job or they have unexpected medical expenses? It is always best to live below your means and have a cushion of emergency savings. Look for things you can cut: Cheaper housing, less eating out, more economical cable and phone plans. We don't need all the stuff we have, we don't need to do all the stuff we do. Focus on what really matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can afford the Wisc, but I know people living from paycheck to paycheck (no savings) with all of the income covering expenses.

When people are living this way, they have bigger problems than just the WISC. What if their car breaks down? That could easily cost $400 like WISC, or more. What if they need a new HVAC system at $5,000+? Would they then have no car or no heat/AC? Somehow they would find a way to scrape together the needed dollars. Even bigger financial losses could happen. What if someone loses their job or they have unexpected medical expenses? It is always best to live below your means and have a cushion of emergency savings. Look for things you can cut: Cheaper housing, less eating out, more economical cable and phone plans. We don't need all the stuff we have, we don't need to do all the stuff we do. Focus on what really matters.

Thank you! +1

[Anonymous]

It is very frustrating when you know as a parent that your kid has potential, but can't get through the system for whatever reason.

My child scored very superior is all of the WISC sub scores, ended up with IQ=154 and all subtests in 19's expect for two 18's.

The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it. I eneded up putting him in private gifted school and he couldn't be happier and doing better. I am here for my DD pretty much going through the same thing. I have appealed with high WISC and low GBRS. I know all those teachers, AART, principal and committee was wrong about son and the psychologist was right. I may end up doing the same for DD. Ultimately, for us the price to make our kids excel went way beyond paying $400 for WISC since we believe in it. I say it's a personal choice and no one should tell you what's right or wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it.

This sounds like it was a long time ago. As you know, appeals are reviewed by the appeals committee at central office, not the individual school. "The appeals committee consists of the
Advanced Academic coordinator, Advanced Academic Program specialists, EL specialists, and school psychologists."

source: p. 15 Local Plan for the Education of the Gifted

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/pdfs/localplan/FinalLocalPlan.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very frustrating when you know as a parent that your kid has potential, but can't get through the system for whatever reason.

My child scored very superior is all of the WISC sub scores, ended up with IQ=154 and all subtests in 19's expect for two 18's.

The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it. I eneded up putting him in private gifted school and he couldn't be happier and doing better. I am here for my DD pretty much going through the same thing. I have appealed with high WISC and low GBRS. I know all those teachers, AART, principal and committee was wrong about son and the psychologist was right. I may end up doing the same for DD. Ultimately, for us the price to make our kids excel went way beyond paying $400 for WISC since we believe in it. I say it's a personal choice and no one should tell you what's right or wrong.

Why did you talk to AART? Apeal has nothing to do with the kid's local school. Did you do any homework before you appealed? Sorry but I cannot help but puzzled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is very frustrating when you know as a parent that your kid has potential, but can't get through the system for whatever reason.

My child scored very superior is all of the WISC sub scores, ended up with IQ=154 and all subtests in 19's expect for two 18's.

The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it. I eneded up putting him in private gifted school and he couldn't be happier and doing better. I am here for my DD pretty much going through the same thing. I have appealed with high WISC and low GBRS. I know all those teachers, AART, principal and committee was wrong about son and the psychologist was right. I may end up doing the same for DD. Ultimately, for us the price to make our kids excel went way beyond paying $400 for WISC since we believe in it. I say it's a personal choice and no one should tell you what's right or wrong.

Something does not add up. Unless there was a procedural screw up (missing the deadline or something), or other reason to exclude the test (e.g., issue with the licence), I can not imagine how a 154 FSIQ would be rejected. This is either a troll/sock puppet, a person that screwed up the process, or someone with a real grevance. If it is the latter, I suggest going to the school board.

Something does not add up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very frustrating when you know as a parent that your kid has potential, but can't get through the system for whatever reason.

My child scored very superior is all of the WISC sub scores, ended up with IQ=154 and all subtests in 19's expect for two 18's.

The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it. I eneded up putting him in private gifted school and he couldn't be happier and doing better. I am here for my DD pretty much going through the same thing. I have appealed with high WISC and low GBRS. I know all those teachers, AART, principal and committee was wrong about son and the psychologist was right. I may end up doing the same for DD. Ultimately, for us the price to make our kids excel went way beyond paying $400 for WISC since we believe in it. I say it's a personal choice and no one should tell you what's right or wrong.

Why did you talk to AART? Apeal has nothing to do with the kid's local school. Did you do any homework before you appealed? Sorry but I cannot help but puzzled.

Not the PP but I have known people appealing who talked with the school's AART first, hoping to get some guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is very frustrating when you know as a parent that your kid has potential, but can't get through the system for whatever reason.

My child scored very superior is all of the WISC sub scores, ended up with IQ=154 and all subtests in 19's expect for two 18's.

The GBRS in the original screen was low at 9. When I met the AART for appeal, she was basically dismissing the WISC and the evaluation report of the psychologist and was stuck in the low GBRS grade. He ended up not winning the appeal either, still don't know if the AART had a say or not since in the posts I always see kids with above 150 and 140 in subtests get it. I eneded up putting him in private gifted school and he couldn't be happier and doing better. I am here for my DD pretty much going through the same thing. I have appealed with high WISC and low GBRS. I know all those teachers, AART, principal and committee was wrong about son and the psychologist was right. I may end up doing the same for DD. Ultimately, for us the price to make our kids excel went way beyond paying $400 for WISC since we believe in it. I say it's a personal choice and no one should tell you what's right or wrong.

Something does not add up. Unless there was a procedural screw up (missing the deadline or something), or other reason to exclude the test (e.g., issue with the licence), I can not imagine how a 154 FSIQ would be rejected. This is either a troll/sock puppet, a person that screwed up the process, or someone with a real grevance. If it is the latter, I suggest going to the school board.

Something does not add up.

+1

a score of 154 would place this child among a handful of the most profoundly gifted children in the county ( a very very small number). In terms of intelligence, this child would run circles around almost all aap DCs. And, a 9 is not that low for GBRS (granted, it's below average) but with an IQ near Einstein's I would think the Committee would overlook it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe a solution would be for FCPS to WISC every child who doesn't get accepted into AAP in the first round (whether in-pool or parent/teacher-referred). It would cut down the expense of WISCing every single 2nd grader (which I've seen proposed on DCUM), but would still be a last resort for those kids whose parents don't know about or can't afford the WISC. Yes, there would still be some high potential kids who never make it to the screening committee at all, but there might be fewer of them.

If they did this, then tons of parents will start parent referring just so their kids could get tested. I'm not sure what is wrong with the current system (the private WISCing). If you can afford it great. If you choose not to allocate your money that way, then good for your family. If you cannot afford it, there are reduced fee options with GMU, who people on the board have said is quite good. If you fall somewhere in between - not qualifying for the reduced fees, but feel like you cannot afford it - then perhaps there might be some other method of appropriation of finances in your family, or maybe not. I guess the families that are hit with this the most, are those that fall in between.

I personally think there are lots of famlies that "think" they fall in between, but really the education is not their priority. If you can blow $400 on a single birthday party, of $1000 on travel soccer, then you can definitely afford testing.

ha. These are precisely the kind of people who do get a WISC.