USNWR Top 10 Leaked

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll just leave this here.

Number of venture-backed startup companies

1 Berkeley 1,305
2 Stanford 1,297
3 Harvard 1,086
4 University of Pennsylvania 993
5 MIT 949

If you adjust for size and look at startups per 1000 students of enrollment...

Per 1000 s
Berkeley 29
Stanford 74
Harvard 50
Upenn 42
MIT 80

By this logic, Berkeley, Michigan, ucla, and freakin Arizona state with their 80k student body should be in the top five, lol.

You can’t break this down to ratio. Most of these graduates come from very specific programs. For cal, they usually come from EECS, engineering, and business.

[Anonymous]

I swear, you private school fan boys sound so desperate. Your time has passed. Maybe in the 1900s you were relevant. The most important schools today are Berkeley, mit, Stanford, ucla, Michigan, cmu, Georgia tech, etc. they’re the ones moving the world to the modern age of technology and ways of thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Embargoed means it still has time to change right? I think a more reasonable list would go:

1. Princeton
2. MIT
3. Harvard
3. Stanford
5. Yale
6. Caltech
6. Duke
8. Johns Hopkins
8. Northwestern
10. Penn

Well sheeit, if we're going to do that then I'd say:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
3. Cal Tech
5. Princeton
6. Duke
6. Johns Hopkins
8. Yale
8. Penn
10. Brown

We found the Brown alum who was rejected by Northwestern !

Kids at Brown don't care about Northwestern.

Oh but they do. For finance bros and stem kids, Brown is seen as an easier admit and not as good as Northwestern—so many kids who get deferred or rejected from ED at Penn Wharton or engineering or M&T(insanely popular among males from wealthy families) “settle” for Brown or Dartmouth in RD, and often do not get into Northwestern RD but would prefer it over Brown if they did.

I would disagree. Students would choose Brown and Dartmouth over Northwestern.

Of course they would. Then you get to say you're an Ivy Leaguer for the rest of your life. And I am not being sarcastic.

[Anonymous]

UCLA is also an amazing school that gets disrespected on DCUM too. California probably has the two best public schools in the country. There are plenty of reasons to go to UCLA over Cal or Brown or Chicago...

I wish our in-state options looked a lot better!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear, you private school fan boys sound so desperate. Your time has passed. Maybe in the 1900s you were relevant. The most important schools today are Berkeley, mit, Stanford, ucla, Michigan, cmu, Georgia tech, etc. they’re the ones moving the world to the modern age of technology and ways of thinking.

50% of your list are private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I swear, you private school fan boys sound so desperate. Your time has passed. Maybe in the 1900s you were relevant. The most important schools today are Berkeley, mit, Stanford, ucla, Michigan, cmu, Georgia tech, etc. they’re the ones moving the world to the modern age of technology and ways of thinking.

It is an East Coast issue where the emphasis on private colleges and Ivies resulted in states like NY, CT and NJ not investing in public universities. We live in NY and dont have any decent nationally recognized public university top kids feel proud to attend. Our kids would rather pay full price in Michigan, CA, etc than be instate. I give CA a lot of credit for creating such affordable tiers of education, the UCs, CSUs, Community colleges. Others states should learn from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Embargoed means it still has time to change right? I think a more reasonable list would go:

1. Princeton
2. MIT
3. Harvard
3. Stanford
5. Yale
6. Caltech
6. Duke
8. Johns Hopkins
8. Northwestern
10. Penn

Well sheeit, if we're going to do that then I'd say:

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Harvard
3. Cal Tech
5. Princeton
6. Duke
6. Johns Hopkins
8. Yale
8. Penn
10. Brown

We found the Brown alum who was rejected by Northwestern !

Kids at Brown don't care about Northwestern.

Oh but they do. For finance bros and stem kids, Brown is seen as an easier admit and not as good as Northwestern—so many kids who get deferred or rejected from ED at Penn Wharton or engineering or M&T(insanely popular among males from wealthy families) “settle” for Brown or Dartmouth in RD, and often do not get into Northwestern RD but would prefer it over Brown if they did.

I would disagree. Students would choose Brown and Dartmouth over Northwestern.

Of course they would. Then you get to say you're an Ivy Leaguer for the rest of your life. And I am not being sarcastic.

Does anyone really say they are an Ivy Leaguer or went to an Ivy League school though? Harvard and Yale grads don't. The old joke was that Cornell alums did. Now that Cornell looks like it probably won't be the lowest ranked Ivy League school again in the near future, joke is on everyone else! Stanford grads will tell you they are glad they avoided seeing the crappy Ivy League sports (well maybe not over the last few down years)

Employers and cocktail party attendees look at Northwestern as just as good academically. Parent groups will be impressed too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll just leave this here.

Number of venture-backed startup companies

1 Berkeley 1,305
2 Stanford 1,297
3 Harvard 1,086
4 University of Pennsylvania 993
5 MIT 949

If you adjust for size and look at startups per 1000 students of enrollment...

Per 1000 s
Berkeley 29
Stanford 74
Harvard 50
Upenn 42
MIT 80

By this logic, Berkeley, Michigan, ucla, and freakin Arizona state with their 80k student body should be in the top five, lol.

You can’t break this down to ratio. Most of these graduates come from very specific programs. For cal, they usually come from EECS, engineering, and business.

DP, but I don’t think you understood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll just leave this here.

Number of venture-backed startup companies

1 Berkeley 1,305
2 Stanford 1,297
3 Harvard 1,086
4 University of Pennsylvania 993
5 MIT 949

When you take these numbers and control for undergrad population, MIT wins hands down and Berkeley drops out of the top 5

[Anonymous]

It is true that a lot of the stats that get broken down per student at a university level can be misleading. The earnings data is the biggest example. Schools with large %s in particular programs look great; however, when you just compare particular majors/departments, the data looks far different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ll just leave this here.

Number of venture-backed startup companies

1 Berkeley 1,305
2 Stanford 1,297
3 Harvard 1,086
4 University of Pennsylvania 993
5 MIT 949

If you adjust for size and look at startups per 1000 students of enrollment...

Per 1000 s
Berkeley 29
Stanford 74
Harvard 50
Upenn 42
MIT 80

By this logic, Berkeley, Michigan, ucla, and freakin Arizona state with their 80k student body should be in the top five, lol.

You can’t break this down to ratio. Most of these graduates come from very specific programs.

You don't think it is significant that Stanford is 2/5 the size of Berkeley but produces the same number of startups?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:UCLA is also an amazing school that gets disrespected on DCUM too. California probably has the two best public schools in the country. There are plenty of reasons to go to UCLA over Cal or Brown or Chicago...

I wish our in-state options looked a lot better!

I have tremendous respect for ucla. They have the best mathematician in the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


But, but, but those are grad school rankings. That’s how I know you’ve never attended a research university, otherwise you’d know the grad and undergraduate levels are intertwined; grad schools are ranked according to strength of faculty and students, and faculty also teaches the undergrads and grad students serve as TAs.

I think you mean they are ranked on the strength of faculty research, and most of those faculty want to spend as little time as possible with undergrads, and on the strength of the grad students, most of whom have never taught before.

These are issues with private universities as well, but at least they have far better ratios.

This lack of attention is one reason why UCB undergrads go on to earn PhDs at such a low rate (68th) compared to its private peers despite all the amazing research taking place on its campus.

Let’s not forget UCB guarantees only one year of on campus housing. Making friends and useful contacts is one of the primary benefits of attending college, and a 3/4 reduction in residential experience relative to many privates is not to be swept under the rug.

I like UCB and I think it’s a tremendous value. You’re just overstating its case pretty dramatically.

First of all, don’t call it UCB.

Second, Berkeley also has the most top undergrad programs. In fact, Berkeley practically sweeps the few undergrad programs that U.S. News does rank. Off the top of my head, Berkeley is ranked #1 for CS, #1 civil engineering, #1 psychology, #1 environmental engineering, #2 business administration, etc.

That’s mostly because when they ask officials at other schools to rank by dept they go with what they know most, research. But when you drill down into grad school placement for any of their programs they still don’t crack the top 40. That’s cause UCB’s undergrad mission is weighted far more towards preparing masses for lower skilled careers not requiring further training than the many schools (mostly privates) that place at higher rates.

Anonymous wrote:

Faculty is ranked according to reputation, papers they’ve written, citations, awards, and yes, research. You’re just nitpicking at this point. Berkeley professors are top notch, and they do teach undergrads. And yes, they care about their undergrad students. I think you’ve been led astray by anti-Berkeley infidels propagating false cliches about cal professors to cope with the reality that the best professors would prefer to teach at public’s.

If you are a prof you don’t pick UCB for undergrad teaching, you pick it because for grad resources, including the availability of grad students who will meet with and answer undergrad questions so you don’t have to.

Anonymous wrote:

My biggest regret at Berkeley is ignoring the hundreds of emails I received from professors practically begging for us to come to office hours. They absolutely care about teaching undergrads. This is common sense. In fact, when former Secretary of treasury for Bill Clinton, Robert Reich, conducted his final lecture at Berkeley for his famous Poverty and Wealth course, he sat outside of Wheeler Hall (where Oppenheimer was filmed) and greeted practically half of the school.

I think you’re far too obsessed with ratios, and a university’s ability to coddle their students. I get it, the lesser the competition, the better access you have to the folks who will give you the answers.

You have it backwards. When the ratios are higher, the academic standards are higher because the profs have more time for engaging and assessing. There are literally more assignments, and those assignments are more thoughtfully created and evaluated.

Anonymous wrote:

But at Berkeley, professors and TAs won’t hold your hands even if you’re in a classroom of 12 students. Their goal is for you to learn how to learn. I hated it myself at first, but now I can’t imagine a better form of education. I wouldn’t trade it for the world. That’s why Berkeley students lead the way with the most venture capitalist-backed startups. It’s simply a different of teaching philosophy and not lack of resources. Would you rather have a bunch of navy Seals put through hell to protect you, or regular recruits who got unlimited resources?

If they “lead the way” for a particular startup ranking (they don’t when looking at Crunchbase, they are 4th) it’s mostly because of size. Again, you need to look at rates by adjusting schools by size, which seems to keep escaping you. If you do so I think they fall out of the top 10. They also obviously benefit from being down the road from Silicon Valley investors. Btw, you haven’t taken the time to separate the start-ups founded by grad students, which is the lion’s share!

Anonymous wrote:

Berkeley also sends the most kids to grad schools. Again, using ratio here is flawed because universities are made up of different colleges and programs, and students have different goals. Private schools specialize in the humanities so naturally they’re gonna wanna go to grad schools en masses because you’re not gonna get very many job offers with that degree (and I was a philosophy major). They also tend to come from money so they can pay for it. Most CS, engineering, data science, etc majors at cal already have jobs in Silicon Valley lined up for them, so why go to grad school?

You don’t seem to be familiar with the degree to which PhD spots for arts and humanities are dwarved by STEM PhD openings. Engineering PhDs outnumber English 10 to 1 for example. Given that UCB is big enough to offer everything at the undergrad level and that their undergrads have higher STEM majoring rates than most of their private peers, this makes their lower rates of earning PhDs by undergrad alumni even more surprising. And again they don’t crack the top 40 for PhD rate in any academic category (engineering, life sciences, physical sciences, social sciences, humanities, math and CS, etc.).

Anonymous wrote:

I will concede to lack of student housing, that’s cal’s biggest problem. But I’m primarily focused on academics, that’s the only thing I’m concerned about.

But part of the academic experience is making contacts on who can help solve what types of problems (technical, medical, financial, etc) later in life and learning about a different field of study in conversation. Socializing isn’t just about having beers. It’s about learning from other learners. Did you not experience that at UCB? Fellow students passionate about about their field *want* to share some of what they learned that week. If students at a school only learn academic things from the courses they themselves directly take, it’s a very diminished college experience! The residential part of college is a critical opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I swear, you private school fan boys sound so desperate. Your time has passed. Maybe in the 1900s you were relevant. The most important schools today are Berkeley, mit, Stanford, ucla, Michigan, cmu, Georgia tech, etc. they’re the ones moving the world to the modern age of technology and ways of thinking.

It is an East Coast issue where the emphasis on private colleges and Ivies resulted in states like NY, CT and NJ not investing in public universities. We live in NY and dont have any decent nationally recognized public university top kids feel proud to attend. Our kids would rather pay full price in Michigan, CA, etc than be instate. I give CA a lot of credit for creating such affordable tiers of education, the UCs, CSUs, Community colleges. Others states should learn from them.

To be fair to you and your governments, California has the advantage of geography. For instance Berkeley and ucla professors aren’t exactly the most well paid, but they go there nonetheless because of the weather, landscape, and culture. Some of the younger academics and intellectuals of the instagram generation are even choosing Southern California now over Northern California schools. Thats why I predict ucla and UC San Diego will someday be the UC system’s two top schools. It pains me to say this as a cal guy, but that’s where it’s trending. I feel like US News is the only thing that’s keeping the ivies relevant these days.

But one thing east coast public schools can do is to invest heavily on stem departments. If they can’t touch the ivies as a whole, they can at least produce a high volume of high-earning graduates.

[Anonymous]

Ivies and top east coast private schools continue to see record applications, yield rates, and decreasing acceptance rates. I don't see the trend reversing with people spurning these schools for the UCs.