Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

+1

This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. First they supported quotas. The courts struck down quotas so they pivoted to affirmative action. And the latest rebranding is DE&I. It's amazing the arguments they will use to justify a racist policy. "It's about creating an inclusive environment." "They bring a different perspective and that makes the team stronger." "Race is just one of the many factors we take into account during the hiring and promotions process."

They are as bad as the crazies still counting ballots to prove Trump won. They have been buying into propoganda for so long that they can't even think clearly or objectively. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody on the left (even moderates) ever questions the idea that all aspects of society must have proportional racial representation. It's a very strange goal and if you told someone from another country about our policies, they would look at you like you are crazy.

Precisely what bothers you about an inclusive environment that brings together differing perspectives?

Nothing. If you can do it without discriminating against people, go for it. The problem is that when liberals say they want "differing perspectives," it's code for we want more black people. Your race tends to be a rather insignificant factor when it comes to differing perspectives. Diversity in terms of work experience, ideology, military vs civilian, US vs international, and education are huge factors that really sets people apart and can strenthen a team. Your race, not so much.

Blacks have long been discriminated against in the TJ admissions process and will probably still be discriminated against with the changes, even though their numbers have slightly increased. The Asians are hating on them, even though it’s not them that are making the changes. The powers that be are just not okay with the gamesmanship that has resulted in the school not getting the best students and not getting more white students.

There will also be gamesmanship as long as TJ is perceived as a scarce good or service. You can engage in gamesmanship by trying to gain an advantage through prep. You can engage in a different type of gamesmanship by reallocating seats based on geography, even when talent and aptitude are not equally distributed in the region. And you can reduce gamesmanship by making TJ less attractive relative to other high schools, which is currently also taking place.

The powers that be are mostly happy with the combination of a different type of gamesmanship and reduced overall interest in TJ. It's a watered-down version of TJ that commands less respect, promotes less obvious striving, and will eventually be looked down upon in some parts of the county (not unlike the elementary schools that used to have a year-long schedule or required kids to wear uniforms). Some on the margins are less happy, and they will continue to litigate or look for ways to fight politically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

You don’t know much about Asian Americans in the DMV. The Asians living in Annandale are lower SES/economically diverse and lower SES Asians do much better under the new policy than they did. If it upsets anyone, it might be some Langley/McLean and Centreville Asians.

Do they do better in Annandale, or are they now giving out spots to lower income Asians at Centerville/Langley/McLean?

I don't know, but it's a race-blind process that somehow always picks more Asians than anyone else, so not sure on which planet that is discrimination.

Whether it’s truly a race-blind process is something with which the courts may continue to grapple. If a process is facially race-blind, but was adopted to make it comparatively more difficult for one racial group to gain admission, the Supreme Court may yet end up determining that it violates the Constitution. It’s not simply a question of whether Asian students are “over-represented” relative to their overall percentage of the student population.

They don't know the applicants' race or name. This means it's truly really truly race blind.

Suppose all Asians are in one middle school, and are getting 90% of the spots. One way to reduce Asian numbers at TJ in this scenario would be to say you are going to give a maximum X number of seats from each school. This would lower the Asian number to about 5% in this scenario from 90%, with a race-blind application process.

The scenario you described is one reason why max quotas are usually considered less acceptable than minimum quotas.

But there isn’t any middle school in FCPS where Asians are a plurality, much less a majority. So the thought experiment is largely irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant for that reason.
If Asians are a small minority at each school, but most of the Asians are in just a few schools, then per school quotas would have a big impact.
This is more the case in Loudoun that Fairfax I gather.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

The board won the case.

Of course FCPS was so quick to send a gloating email.

It’s more than a little disingenuous for FCPS to highlight that “TJ continues to be ranked as the #1 high school in the country” when any such rankings are based on the performance of students admitted under the old system.

But it’s about what you’d expect. It’s a PR machine run by people with little capacity for the truth and no shame.

Aw, sorry you’re feeling sad.

More angry than sad with the liars driving FCPS into the ground. And you’re a twit.

Name calling makes you sound smart.

At least I don’t draft misleading press releases just to gloat.

And you are a twit.

And you’re a sore loser. Fortunately the good guys won this one.

True, but these parents are bitter and want a process that allows them to buy an advantage even though their case is complete garbage. There's no discrimination from a race-blind process that selects mostly Asians.

That's a good way to sum it all up.

[Anonymous]

Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

The problem with your flawed analogy is sports don't receive public funding. Personally, I'd be happy if they got rid of college sports period since it has nothing to do with education.

Further, you suppose to assume the criteria used to determine merit is established and it isn't. For example, TJ previously used a test that many people bought access to. This allowed them to skew the results in their favor. This is hardly an indication of merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

+1

This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. First they supported quotas. The courts struck down quotas so they pivoted to affirmative action. And the latest rebranding is DE&I. It's amazing the arguments they will use to justify a racist policy. "It's about creating an inclusive environment." "They bring a different perspective and that makes the team stronger." "Race is just one of the many factors we take into account during the hiring and promotions process."

They are as bad as the crazies still counting ballots to prove Trump won. They have been buying into propoganda for so long that they can't even think clearly or objectively. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody on the left (even moderates) ever questions the idea that all aspects of society must have proportional racial representation. It's a very strange goal and if you told someone from another country about our policies, they would look at you like you are crazy.

Precisely what bothers you about an inclusive environment that brings together differing perspectives?

Nothing. If you can do it without discriminating against people, go for it. The problem is that when liberals say they want "differing perspectives," it's code for we want more black people. Your race tends to be a rather insignificant factor when it comes to differing perspectives. Diversity in terms of work experience, ideology, military vs civilian, US vs international, and education are huge factors that really sets people apart and can strenthen a team. Your race, not so much.

Blacks have long been discriminated against in the TJ admissions process and will probably still be discriminated against with the changes, even though their numbers have slightly increased. The Asians are hating on them, even though it’s not them that are making the changes. The powers that be are just not okay with the gamesmanship that has resulted in the school not getting the best students and not getting more white students.

There will also be gamesmanship as long as TJ is perceived as a scarce good or service. You can engage in gamesmanship by trying to gain an advantage through prep. You can engage in a different type of gamesmanship by reallocating seats based on geography, even when talent and aptitude are not equally distributed in the region. And you can reduce gamesmanship by making TJ less attractive relative to other high schools, which is currently also taking place.

The powers that be are mostly happy with the combination of a different type of gamesmanship and reduced overall interest in TJ. It's a watered-down version of TJ that commands less respect, promotes less obvious striving, and will eventually be looked down upon in some parts of the county (not unlike the elementary schools that used to have a year-long schedule or required kids to wear uniforms). Some on the margins are less happy, and they will continue to litigate or look for ways to fight politically.

There are certain areas of the county in which it would be in TJ’s best interest to be less attractive. Otherwise, this is pretty much sour grapes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

+1

This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. First they supported quotas. The courts struck down quotas so they pivoted to affirmative action. And the latest rebranding is DE&I. It's amazing the arguments they will use to justify a racist policy. "It's about creating an inclusive environment." "They bring a different perspective and that makes the team stronger." "Race is just one of the many factors we take into account during the hiring and promotions process."

They are as bad as the crazies still counting ballots to prove Trump won. They have been buying into propoganda for so long that they can't even think clearly or objectively. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody on the left (even moderates) ever questions the idea that all aspects of society must have proportional racial representation. It's a very strange goal and if you told someone from another country about our policies, they would look at you like you are crazy.

Precisely what bothers you about an inclusive environment that brings together differing perspectives?

Nothing. If you can do it without discriminating against people, go for it. The problem is that when liberals say they want "differing perspectives," it's code for we want more black people. Your race tends to be a rather insignificant factor when it comes to differing perspectives. Diversity in terms of work experience, ideology, military vs civilian, US vs international, and education are huge factors that really sets people apart and can strenthen a team. Your race, not so much.

Blacks have long been discriminated against in the TJ admissions process and will probably still be discriminated against with the changes, even though their numbers have slightly increased. The Asians are hating on them, even though it’s not them that are making the changes. The powers that be are just not okay with the gamesmanship that has resulted in the school not getting the best students and not getting more white students.

There will also be gamesmanship as long as TJ is perceived as a scarce good or service. You can engage in gamesmanship by trying to gain an advantage through prep. You can engage in a different type of gamesmanship by reallocating seats based on geography, even when talent and aptitude are not equally distributed in the region. And you can reduce gamesmanship by making TJ less attractive relative to other high schools, which is currently also taking place.

The powers that be are mostly happy with the combination of a different type of gamesmanship and reduced overall interest in TJ. It's a watered-down version of TJ that commands less respect, promotes less obvious striving, and will eventually be looked down upon in some parts of the county (not unlike the elementary schools that used to have a year-long schedule or required kids to wear uniforms). Some on the margins are less happy, and they will continue to litigate or look for ways to fight politically.

There are certain areas of the county in which it would be in TJ’s best interest to be less attractive. Otherwise, this is pretty much sour grapes.

Ah, yes. The race to the bottom won’t be quite so obvious if the top just goes away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

+1

This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. First they supported quotas. The courts struck down quotas so they pivoted to affirmative action. And the latest rebranding is DE&I. It's amazing the arguments they will use to justify a racist policy. "It's about creating an inclusive environment." "They bring a different perspective and that makes the team stronger." "Race is just one of the many factors we take into account during the hiring and promotions process."

They are as bad as the crazies still counting ballots to prove Trump won. They have been buying into propoganda for so long that they can't even think clearly or objectively. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody on the left (even moderates) ever questions the idea that all aspects of society must have proportional racial representation. It's a very strange goal and if you told someone from another country about our policies, they would look at you like you are crazy.

Precisely what bothers you about an inclusive environment that brings together differing perspectives?

Nothing. If you can do it without discriminating against people, go for it. The problem is that when liberals say they want "differing perspectives," it's code for we want more black people. Your race tends to be a rather insignificant factor when it comes to differing perspectives. Diversity in terms of work experience, ideology, military vs civilian, US vs international, and education are huge factors that really sets people apart and can strenthen a team. Your race, not so much.

Blacks have long been discriminated against in the TJ admissions process and will probably still be discriminated against with the changes, even though their numbers have slightly increased. The Asians are hating on them, even though it’s not them that are making the changes. The powers that be are just not okay with the gamesmanship that has resulted in the school not getting the best students and not getting more white students.

There will also be gamesmanship as long as TJ is perceived as a scarce good or service. You can engage in gamesmanship by trying to gain an advantage through prep. You can engage in a different type of gamesmanship by reallocating seats based on geography, even when talent and aptitude are not equally distributed in the region. And you can reduce gamesmanship by making TJ less attractive relative to other high schools, which is currently also taking place.

The powers that be are mostly happy with the combination of a different type of gamesmanship and reduced overall interest in TJ. It's a watered-down version of TJ that commands less respect, promotes less obvious striving, and will eventually be looked down upon in some parts of the county (not unlike the elementary schools that used to have a year-long schedule or required kids to wear uniforms). Some on the margins are less happy, and they will continue to litigate or look for ways to fight politically.

There are certain areas of the county in which it would be in TJ’s best interest to be less attractive. Otherwise, this is pretty much sour grapes.

Ah, yes. The race to the bottom won’t be quite so obvious if the top just goes away.

Yeah, you either don't understand the PP's point or disagree with but cannot articulate that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is what you get for voting for these left wing extremists to the school board. Serves them right.

+1

This shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. First they supported quotas. The courts struck down quotas so they pivoted to affirmative action. And the latest rebranding is DE&I. It's amazing the arguments they will use to justify a racist policy. "It's about creating an inclusive environment." "They bring a different perspective and that makes the team stronger." "Race is just one of the many factors we take into account during the hiring and promotions process."

They are as bad as the crazies still counting ballots to prove Trump won. They have been buying into propoganda for so long that they can't even think clearly or objectively. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody on the left (even moderates) ever questions the idea that all aspects of society must have proportional racial representation. It's a very strange goal and if you told someone from another country about our policies, they would look at you like you are crazy.

Precisely what bothers you about an inclusive environment that brings together differing perspectives?

Nothing. If you can do it without discriminating against people, go for it. The problem is that when liberals say they want "differing perspectives," it's code for we want more black people. Your race tends to be a rather insignificant factor when it comes to differing perspectives. Diversity in terms of work experience, ideology, military vs civilian, US vs international, and education are huge factors that really sets people apart and can strenthen a team. Your race, not so much.

Blacks have long been discriminated against in the TJ admissions process and will probably still be discriminated against with the changes, even though their numbers have slightly increased. The Asians are hating on them, even though it’s not them that are making the changes. The powers that be are just not okay with the gamesmanship that has resulted in the school not getting the best students and not getting more white students.

There will also be gamesmanship as long as TJ is perceived as a scarce good or service. You can engage in gamesmanship by trying to gain an advantage through prep. You can engage in a different type of gamesmanship by reallocating seats based on geography, even when talent and aptitude are not equally distributed in the region. And you can reduce gamesmanship by making TJ less attractive relative to other high schools, which is currently also taking place.

The powers that be are mostly happy with the combination of a different type of gamesmanship and reduced overall interest in TJ. It's a watered-down version of TJ that commands less respect, promotes less obvious striving, and will eventually be looked down upon in some parts of the county (not unlike the elementary schools that used to have a year-long schedule or required kids to wear uniforms). Some on the margins are less happy, and they will continue to litigate or look for ways to fight politically.

Ahh yes, those poor folks on the margins in McLean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

The problem with your flawed analogy is sports don't receive public funding. Personally, I'd be happy if they got rid of college sports period since it has nothing to do with education.

Further, you suppose to assume the criteria used to determine merit is established and it isn't. For example, TJ previously used a test that many people bought access to. This allowed them to skew the results in their favor. This is hardly an indication of merit.

Also very few athletes get scholarships. A college basketball team can’t have more than 15 kids on a team and no more than 13 scholarships. That’s the sport with the highest percentage of Black athletes.

The truth is, 72% of women in d1, d2, and d3 college sports are white. On the men’s side the number is 64%. I hear you complaining about what the whites getting more of something you aren’t. Why always hating on the Blacks? They are always the ones getting treated the worst, but you want them to be treated even worse because you think somehow that will make white mommy and daddy treat you better elevate you more. SMH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

Athletes are recruited and selected for their ability to win games. Colleges recognize that successful athletic programs make money for the university both directly and indirectly through increased donations.

There is no parallel to the motivations behind selecting students to go to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

Athletes are recruited and selected for their ability to win games. Colleges recognize that successful athletic programs make money for the university both directly and indirectly through increased donations.

There is no parallel to the motivations behind selecting students to go to TJ.

Very few of these programs make money. They're more of a significant drain on a school's resources, but it makes some moronic alumni happy.

Anyway, as far as I can tell TJ does select the best students throughout the county. This is key since public schools need to serve all students not just those who can afford the best prep to help skew their test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Jumping in late in the game... but it is going to piss off the right-wing politicians who are pretending to back Asian parents = who are naive enough to think that the right-wing politicians have their best interests in mind - instead, the parents are just their puppets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh boy, this is really going to piss off all the Annandale Asians.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/05/23/thomas-jefferson-admissions-policy-upheld/

Jumping in late in the game... but it is going to piss off the right-wing politicians who are pretending to back Asian parents = who are naive enough to think that the right-wing politicians have their best interests in mind - instead, the parents are just their puppets

You seem to be projecting your own thoughts, wishing Asians would do what you want. Perhaps if Democrats dropped affirmative action, they would give more support to Asians. Instead they pushed equity proposals like VMPI. Youngkin ran against it, then repealed it as governor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s start dictating how athletes at schools that receive federal funding are selected for teams. We could find a “race-neutral” approach that slashes the number of black athletes even if most basketball players are still black.

Athletes are recruited and selected for their ability to win games. Colleges recognize that successful athletic programs make money for the university both directly and indirectly through increased donations.

There is no parallel to the motivations behind selecting students to go to TJ.

Very few of these programs make money. They're more of a significant drain on a school's resources, but it makes some moronic alumni happy.

Anyway, as far as I can tell TJ does select the best students throughout the county. This is key since public schools need to serve all students not just those who can afford the best prep to help skew their test scores.

Well when they want to make money or gain notoriety, that’s when they go get the Blacks for the particular sports that can attain those things. If a Black student is the best athlete in a sport that generates revenue for a school, they are willing to give that Black athlete the scholarship. If the sport is a liability, the schools Blacks usually aren’t the one’s getting the scholarships. That’s how that works.