Two children killed by family pet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son was bitten by a yellow lab when he was a toddler, so I fully understand that any breed of dog can bite. The lab was old and mostly blind, spooked by a louder dog who started barking across the street, and snapped at what was right in front of him. My son happened to be in the wrong place.

Here's the difference: the lab snapped once, then immediately pulled back and turned away. My son ended up with one gash on his check - it did require stitches, and was of course traumatic, I'm not trying to minimize the incident, but it was relatively easy to repair. Ten years out, you can't see a thing. It took a year or two for him to get comfortable with dogs again, but now he absolutely loves them.

If a pitbull were driven to bite, it wouldn't bite once and then pull back. One they start to attack, they keep going. That's what makes them dangerous - not that they are the only dogs that would ever attack, but the severity when they do.

Similar-my DS tripped over our sleeping Rottweiler in the dark and fell on him. He (the dog) was recovering from surgery, so probably in some pain. The dog erupted in a flurry of barks and snaps, but didn't actually bite him. Basically was startled and forced him backwards. Then was contrite, according to DS, although it scared DS in the moment.

I seriously doubt a pitbull would react that way.

Probably not if they're doing what they were bred to do, which is not stop until they have thoroughly killed and shredded their victim, even despite a lot of pain (some have even been shot and will KEEP GOING). If you've seen these things attacking another dog or person it is truly a sight to behold. Tails wagging, super thrilled, just unrelentless in their pursuit of the kill. It cannot be compared to how other dogs may nip and release, it looks nothing like that. It also does appear to be out of nowhere- they don't growl or give a lot of warning before going from 0 to 100.

I can only imagine the horrific scene these dogs left. I feel terribly for the police who had to respond. Apparently one vomited on arrival but I'm sure it goes further than that. Like career ending PTSD.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel very sad for the parents but also believe they need to be charged with something. They killed their babies. There needs to be consequences.

These parents will live with the consequences forever as it is. There is nothing worse.

Not enough for me. This was no freak accident. This was criminal negligence that resulted in the death of two children. I don’t think prison time should be out of the question in these situations.

+ 1 million. I'm tired of hearing these stories. It is just as often someone ELSE'S kids, too. It is a mission of mine to get these things banned. There is no logical reason for them to exist and anyone that disagrees is a frigging idiot.

NP. Totally agree. Even if someone's specific pit bull (or pit bull mix) is "sweet" blah blah -- even if the dog WERE genuinely good-tempered overall, the dog's anatomy is still a pit bull anatomy. And their jaws are designed to deliver horrific bites to kill. It's not just about demeanor or supposed viciousness. It's about how any pit or pit mix has the physical equpiment to crush and rip with incredible force, much more than most other breeds of dog. So if even the "nicest" pit/mix that's been well socialized and trained gets frightened suddenly--that dog is going to deliver a bite that is simply going to be vastly worse than if the dog were some other breed. It's about mechanics as well as temperament. But pit bull lovers refuse to believe that despite the fact it's anatomy, physics, mechanics.

It's not about mean people hating pit owners' precious, darling, sweet and oh so misunderstood dogs.

It's about people telling them, the gentlest dog on the planet can still bite if startled or frightened; why have a dog where if it bites only ONCE in its entire life, that ONE bite could crush a child's skull or rip out an adult's throat because that's what its jaws are built to do, and that build cannot be altered by all the training and love in the world?

My dearest friend has a pit mix who is nervous around people except her. I know not to engage her on the topic of pit bulls/mixes. BUT she always puts the dog into "doggie day care" for the day when anyone comes to visit her because she knows and accepts that her dog is not going to be happy with people in his territory other than her, and she wants guests to be relaxed. I appreciate that more than I can say.

Pit bulls are just the same physically as any other dog
In fact their bite pressure is not as high as other dogs. If your friend's dog was that bad than the doggy day care would not want him there. Maybe the dog doesn't like you.

Sorry, this is nuts. Pit bulls are big and strong and high energy, like a German shepherd or a Dalmatian. They’re overpowered to be family pets. The difference is there are tons of them, most bred irresponsibly.

They also have a very high prey drive. I think the idea of being "breed agnostic" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I encountered a loose pit mix on the street recently while walking my dog and honestly it felt scary in a way that I haven't experienced. That dog was super interested in us in an aggressive way. I yelled for him to get away several times and he'd back off for a few seconds and then start to approach again. Fortunately (for us) he saw another dog walker and ran in their direction. I heard later that he attacked that person's dog after the person brought him home.

The prey drive and gameness is a feature, not a bug. I will never understand how people don't get this. It's genetics! A pit attacking and killing small children is literally fulfilling its genetic destiny.

Retrievers. So they retriever, right? Correct.
Herders. They herd? Yes.
Pitbulls? Oh, they're just a blank slate, it's all in how you raise them.

Get out of town with that BS.

+1

According to pit bull owners these are magic dogs. They’ve always abused except all pit bull owners are magnificent, responsible pet owners but if a pit bull mauls a cat or a dog or a horse or a child it’s the owners fault unless the cat or the dog or the horse or the child existed in which case the pit bull was simply reacting normally to a living thing sneezing but also pit bulls don’t exist because that’s not a breed except it is because you’re a dog classist or dog racist but no owner should ever have to be charged for essentially having a deadly weapon except it’s not the breed it’s the owner but this one was a bait dog and that’s why I’m taking this fearful, neurotic abused dog to a school as an emotional support dog… It’s a never ending stream of nonsense. OP.

+1 Love this and so true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel very sad for the parents but also believe they need to be charged with something. They killed their babies. There needs to be consequences.

These parents will live with the consequences forever as it is. There is nothing worse.

Not enough for me. This was no freak accident. This was criminal negligence that resulted in the death of two children. I don’t think prison time should be out of the question in these situations.

+ 1 million. I'm tired of hearing these stories. It is just as often someone ELSE'S kids, too. It is a mission of mine to get these things banned. There is no logical reason for them to exist and anyone that disagrees is a frigging idiot.

NP. Totally agree. Even if someone's specific pit bull (or pit bull mix) is "sweet" blah blah -- even if the dog WERE genuinely good-tempered overall, the dog's anatomy is still a pit bull anatomy. And their jaws are designed to deliver horrific bites to kill. It's not just about demeanor or supposed viciousness. It's about how any pit or pit mix has the physical equpiment to crush and rip with incredible force, much more than most other breeds of dog. So if even the "nicest" pit/mix that's been well socialized and trained gets frightened suddenly--that dog is going to deliver a bite that is simply going to be vastly worse than if the dog were some other breed. It's about mechanics as well as temperament. But pit bull lovers refuse to believe that despite the fact it's anatomy, physics, mechanics.

It's not about mean people hating pit owners' precious, darling, sweet and oh so misunderstood dogs.

It's about people telling them, the gentlest dog on the planet can still bite if startled or frightened; why have a dog where if it bites only ONCE in its entire life, that ONE bite could crush a child's skull or rip out an adult's throat because that's what its jaws are built to do, and that build cannot be altered by all the training and love in the world?

My dearest friend has a pit mix who is nervous around people except her. I know not to engage her on the topic of pit bulls/mixes. BUT she always puts the dog into "doggie day care" for the day when anyone comes to visit her because she knows and accepts that her dog is not going to be happy with people in his territory other than her, and she wants guests to be relaxed. I appreciate that more than I can say.

Pit bulls are just the same physically as any other dog
In fact their bite pressure is not as high as other dogs. If your friend's dog was that bad than the doggy day care would not want him there. Maybe the dog doesn't like you.

Sorry, this is nuts. Pit bulls are big and strong and high energy, like a German shepherd or a Dalmatian. They’re overpowered to be family pets. The difference is there are tons of them, most bred irresponsibly.

They also have a very high prey drive. I think the idea of being "breed agnostic" is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I encountered a loose pit mix on the street recently while walking my dog and honestly it felt scary in a way that I haven't experienced. That dog was super interested in us in an aggressive way. I yelled for him to get away several times and he'd back off for a few seconds and then start to approach again. Fortunately (for us) he saw another dog walker and ran in their direction. I heard later that he attacked that person's dog after the person brought him home.

The prey drive and gameness is a feature, not a bug. I will never understand how people don't get this. It's genetics! A pit attacking and killing small children is literally fulfilling its genetic destiny.

Retrievers. So they retriever, right? Correct.
Herders. They herd? Yes.
Pitbulls? Oh, they're just a blank slate, it's all in how you raise them.

Get out of town with that BS.

+1

According to pit bull owners these are magic dogs. They’ve always abused except all pit bull owners are magnificent, responsible pet owners but if a pit bull mauls a cat or a dog or a horse or a child it’s the owners fault unless the cat or the dog or the horse or the child existed in which case the pit bull was simply reacting normally to a living thing sneezing but also pit bulls don’t exist because that’s not a breed except it is because you’re a dog classist or dog racist but no owner should ever have to be charged for essentially having a deadly weapon except it’s not the breed it’s the owner but this one was a bait dog and that’s why I’m taking this fearful, neurotic abused dog to a school as an emotional support dog… It’s a never ending stream of nonsense. OP.

+1 Love this and so true

Yep. It's idiotic people still parent the Breed Bias sh--.

[Anonymous]

I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel very sad for the parents but also believe they need to be charged with something. They killed their babies. There needs to be consequences.

These parents will live with the consequences forever as it is. There is nothing worse.

Not enough for me. This was no freak accident. This was criminal negligence that resulted in the death of two children. I don’t think prison time should be out of the question in these situations.

+ 1 million. I'm tired of hearing these stories. It is just as often someone ELSE'S kids, too. It is a mission of mine to get these things banned. There is no logical reason for them to exist and anyone that disagrees is a frigging idiot.

How would the ban you propose work? How do you define pit bull? What percentage of pit bull lineage makes a dog a pit? 2%? 25%? Anything about 50%? Do you propose genetic testing for all rescue dogs/pups? That generally costs $200-$300. How do you propose to pay for it? How would the testing and euthanization program be implemented?

I’m asking since this is a mission of yours, so you must have thought through some of these complicated issues and have ideas for how to address them.

Start holding rescue organizations liable if a dog they adopt out engages in a mauling. They will quickly identify and stop adopting out the pit mixes. Also, fine and even jail breeders who breed these dogs. Pits in shelters should be euthanized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

If all of this is true, then why are pit bulls so much more likely to maim or kill than any other breed — especially the pit bulls who were never involved in dog fighting and weren’t abused?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

If all of this is true, then why are pit bulls so much more likely to maim or kill than any other breed — especially the pit bulls who were never involved in dog fighting and weren’t abused?

I don't disagree that they are big, muscular dogs. They are capable of inflicting a lot of damage. It goes back to irresponsible owners. When adopting a dog, do your research! There isn't a website out there that doesn't specifically state that you must know what you are getting with a pit bull. I only adopt puppies, so I know everything about their history. If someone wants to adopt a pit bull that is several years old, well, then you have to consider what may have happened to them in the past - and prepare accordingly! I am very suspect that the dogs that have suddenly snapped were brought into the household at 8 weeks of age. Pit bulls are like all terriers - extremely loyal to "their people" and are extremely attached to the family. It's very hard for me to imagine a dog that you have had since it essentially was born suddenly went crazy and mauled someone to death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

It’s just as stupid applied to pit bulls as it is applied to dogs.


Here’s what happened:

Part 1) a movement forms to encourage people to “adopt” and “rescue” dogs instead of buying them for breeders. For some people this is just a warm feeling when they get a dog and for others it becomes an identity thing. “Our dog is a rescue,” “adopt don’t shop,” etc.
Part 2) spay/neuter laws in the NE are highly effective and the supply of unwanted puppies drops precipitously. Many of the remaining shelter dogs have apparent behavior and/or medical problems.
Part 3) Pitbulls are popular in the rural south and spay/neuter laws are absent or ineffective. Backyard breeding and lose intact or dumped dogs are common.
Part 4) “rescue” groups don’t have enough dogs, so they “rescue” them from auctions (ie buy from breeders) or ship them north from shelters in the South (“lab mix” or “pit mix” puppies).
Part 5) the rescue/savior complex gets applied to pit bulls, especially by suburban white women who adopt them as puppies.
Part 6) the intentionally bred pit bulls get stronger and more violent because the market for intentionally bred pitbulls is people who fight them or want to look like they fight them, or want an attack/protection dog

There are certainly other breeds that can be dangerous, but nobody is irresponsibly breeding and dumping German shepherds at the rate they are with pitbulls. Idk if they would be as dangerous in that case but it’s certainly possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

And yet there are plenty of gun owners that don't kill a room full of school children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

And yet there are plenty of gun owners that don't kill a room full of school children.

And yet gun owners are more likely to kill people than non gun owners, just like pit bulls are more likely to kill people than poodles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

And yet there are plenty of gun owners that don't kill a room full of school children.

Oh really? Do you think that’s an important point that needs to be made? Everyone knows that there are gun owners who don’t kill people. That doesn’t change anything in PP’s post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New mom with a 3 month old who takes a lot of neighborhood walks in an area with a few pitbulls. What do I do to prevent an attack or how do I stay vigilant while walking around with my baby in a stroller? New fear unlocked. My heart hurts for those children.

You don't need to worry about this. It's much more likely to happen in someone's home with their own dogs. I mean don't walk your stroller into strange back yards. If you see a loose dog that seems aggressive, go the other way, look for shelter, and yell for help. But I doubt you ever will. Feeling like you need to "stay vigilant" about this is unreasonable postpartum anxiety. Trust me I have been there!! In terms of animal attacks from animals that aren't your animal, you should probably be more worried about rabid raccoons. Which is to say not worried at all until the moment you're faced with a rabid raccoon.

I disagree with this. I still have a scar and huge dog fear due to being attacked in my stroller by a German shepherd when I was 2. My mom had scars all over her arms because she had to reach in front of the lunging dog to unbuckle me from my stroller. The dog came running out of a house, jumped on my stroller and tipped it over and growled and bit. I have tried hard not to make my kids irrationally scared of dogs, but it is hard. We avoid anything that looks like a Rottweiler or pit or pit mix

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

And yet there are plenty of gun owners that don't kill a room full of school children.

And yet gun owners are more likely to kill people than non gun owners, just like pit bulls are more likely to kill people than poodles.

Not if they are responsible gun owners! Or pit bull owners.

Owning a pit bull is a big responsibility, one I don't take lightly. I assume it's the same for most gun owners. I know the stigma attached to the breed, and make all necessary accommodations to ensure both she and anyone around her are safe. I know if she makes one wrong move, there will be plenty of people demanding she be euthanized, even if she merely startles them. And, as I stated before, I don't own a big-assed pit bull. I know that would be too much dog for my family. So it goes back to education. KNOW the dog, whether it be a poodle, a greyhound, beagle or a pit bull. Now on my second pit bull, there really isn't another breed I would consider. My current dog is 44 pounds and is a mix. So where do you draw the line on which should be eliminated? Not all pits are baby killers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people

I think it's a somewhat correct analogy but you're on the wrong side of it. People who say that about guns ignore how guns make mass killing easier. It's a lot harder to kill a room full of school children with your bare hands vs with an semi automatic rifle precisely because guns are so much more deadly than any other weapon. Same goes for pit bulls. Except in this case, and other cases involving maulings, it was literally the pit bull that did the killing, not some other party directing it to.

And yet there are plenty of gun owners that don't kill a room full of school children.

Oh really? Do you think that’s an important point that needs to be made? Everyone knows that there are gun owners who don’t kill people. That doesn’t change anything in PP’s post.

Ummm, yes it does. Because not all pit bulls kill people.