Two children killed by family pet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

If all of this is true, then why are pit bulls so much more likely to maim or kill than any other breed — especially the pit bulls who were never involved in dog fighting and weren’t abused?

I don't disagree that they are big, muscular dogs. They are capable of inflicting a lot of damage. It goes back to irresponsible owners. When adopting a dog, do your research! There isn't a website out there that doesn't specifically state that you must know what you are getting with a pit bull. I only adopt puppies, so I know everything about their history. If someone wants to adopt a pit bull that is several years old, well, then you have to consider what may have happened to them in the past - and prepare accordingly! I am very suspect that the dogs that have suddenly snapped were brought into the household at 8 weeks of age. Pit bulls are like all terriers - extremely loyal to "their people" and are extremely attached to the family. It's very hard for me to imagine a dog that you have had since it essentially was born suddenly went crazy and mauled someone to death.

Let’s say you’re right that there are only bad owners, and not bad dogs. What do we do to keep these “big, muscular dogs” away from “irresponsible owners?” Or do you not really care because you want to make sure your ability to adopt pit bull puppies is unimpeded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why the pitbull & pitbull mix owners are having a conniption. A pit bull ban does not mean that someone will come to your door and shoot your dog. It means that there will be a purposeful effort to stop breeding and increase spay/ neuter. I've read most of the responses and haven't seen a single PB owner who purchased their dog from a breeder; they are all "rescues" and many of the owners have waxed poetic about breed abuse causing poor temperament. Eliminating the breeding will decrease opportunity for abuse and will result in fewer shelter dogs who need homes. These are GOOD THINGS: less abuse, fewer homeless dogs.

I am a pit bull owner above and I have no problem with an effort like the above for pit bulls and all dogs, I just don’t think it would ever happen. How will it be enforced? Who is going to pay for genetic testing to determine whether the dog is a pit bull and for the spay/neuter?

Questions of implementation can always be resolved, especially if you throw enough money at the problem. You'd need a multi pronged approach. Veterinarians would be required to spay/ neuter any client dogs who are pitbulls. Since it is federal ban, provide federal resources for genetic testing and sliding scales based on income for spay/ neuter. More free spay/ neuter clinics at local shelters, particularly aimed at low income areas where people are less likely to bring their pet in for regular vet visits. Mobile spay/ neuter vans targeting low income rural and urban areas. You may need to offer voucher programs for veterinary services to incentivize people to get their pet to a veterinarian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why the pitbull & pitbull mix owners are having a conniption. A pit bull ban does not mean that someone will come to your door and shoot your dog. It means that there will be a purposeful effort to stop breeding and increase spay/ neuter. I've read most of the responses and haven't seen a single PB owner who purchased their dog from a breeder; they are all "rescues" and many of the owners have waxed poetic about breed abuse causing poor temperament. Eliminating the breeding will decrease opportunity for abuse and will result in fewer shelter dogs who need homes. These are GOOD THINGS: less abuse, fewer homeless dogs.

I am the other pit bull owner that has commented above. I agree, there needs to be controls on breeding these dogs, especially since it's typically done to get the biggest, strongest pit bull possible. I just wish people wouldn't assume all pits are horrible monsters. Many pits have been treated horribly by people and go on to be wonderful pets. As I said, I don't have a huge monster on a leash, pulling me down the street. To the person that says we are all negligent and get them as some sort of "look at me!" hobby, it's just not true. My first pit was a rescue that was supposedly a "boxer/beagle mix". Only after taking her to the vet did we realize she was a pit mix. We would have never adopted a pit knowingly. But after having her for 12 years, she changed my mind about the breed.

I am truly sorry for these children. But those parents did things I would never do. I would not own two of that breed at the same time. I probably wouldn't own a second dog, period. The information is out there. If regulations were put in place, we wouldn't have idiots out there breeding these dogs in this way. I just ask that not every single one of these dogs be given the label as something that shouldn't be allowed on the face of the earth. They have been around for a long time. It was only in the last 20 years did these problems pop up. People suck.

[Anonymous]

I’ve been studying and following this issue since 2010 when I handled my first dangerous dog case as a county attorney - yes, it was an American pit bull mix dog, of the large and heavily muscled variety.

There is simply no question about the breed characteristics that bully breed dogs were bred for - gameness/resistance to pain and ability to attack without exhibiting the usual warning signs that are readily visible in a dog in a state of heightened alert or impending aggression were primary among those traits. Yes, friendly lovely bully breed dogs raised with love and zero abuse in a family have snapped without provocation and eaten/killed their owners - there are dozens of such stories gleaned carefully from unredacted public records by numerous organizations - dogsbite.org is one such source a person could visit and read the accounts if they had an open mind on the issue.

It is a tragedy that the animal welfare organizations and even veterinary organizations have taken the path of minimizing the potential lethality of bully breed dogs because it only emboldens idiots like the parents in the OP who allowed two very big powerful dogs to have unfettered access to two very small and vulnerable children who were easy prey to the family pets.

I have mixed feelings having adopted a dog in late 2019 who has proven to be the best of several good dogs I’ve had in my life and who turned out by dna testing to be 30% APBT mix. That said she was listed as a border collie mix, she is 40lb and lean like a working collie and has a small head and mouth nothing like the pits who were subject of this horrific mauling/killing and many who are killers of humans and other pets and livestock animals.

ANY dog can be a killer of other animals and even humans under the right circumstances. The problem is that bully breeds and pits in particular are far more prone to attack and kill human beings in ANY circumstances, with nothing that justifies being ‘set off.’ While this thread has been running and this story in the headlines, another victim has fallen to a bully breed - an 80 year old woman who went for a stroll in her own neighborhood was set upon by two Dogo Argentinos who ran after her from a neighbor’s home and tore her apart. This is not the behavior of the vast majority of breeds, it simply isn’t and anyone who takes that line is a liar. Bully breeds were bred to kill. If you know anything about behavior traits bred into dogs you know they can’t be removed overnight after centuries of breeding. Bully breeds aren’t suitable as family pets and we should let them go extinct by aggressive spay/neuter requirements, onerous licensing requirements and euthanasia of ANY bully breed or mix who shows any aggression toward other animals or humans.

Am I taking a hard line? You bet I am. Talk to me when you have had to look at the aftermath of a fatal dog mauling, when you have seen the pieces of a child strewn about a family’s backyard. Yes millions of bully breeds and mixes haven’t attacked - but it’s like letting your kids play with lions or tigers. I feel sorry for any child growing up in a home with a bully breed present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

If all of this is true, then why are pit bulls so much more likely to maim or kill than any other breed — especially the pit bulls who were never involved in dog fighting and weren’t abused?

I don't disagree that they are big, muscular dogs. They are capable of inflicting a lot of damage. It goes back to irresponsible owners. When adopting a dog, do your research! There isn't a website out there that doesn't specifically state that you must know what you are getting with a pit bull. I only adopt puppies, so I know everything about their history. If someone wants to adopt a pit bull that is several years old, well, then you have to consider what may have happened to them in the past - and prepare accordingly! I am very suspect that the dogs that have suddenly snapped were brought into the household at 8 weeks of age. Pit bulls are like all terriers - extremely loyal to "their people" and are extremely attached to the family. It's very hard for me to imagine a dog that you have had since it essentially was born suddenly went crazy and mauled someone to death.

You mean like the two children this thread is about? How were those dogs “loyal” to their family?

This is patently false. They are not known to be loyal which is why half the time you read about these maulings the immediate family are the victims. Their lack of loyalty and unpredictable nature is why you don't really see them as police/military dogs. They can't reliably be trusted to discriminate who they go after or to stop when called off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why the pitbull & pitbull mix owners are having a conniption. A pit bull ban does not mean that someone will come to your door and shoot your dog. It means that there will be a purposeful effort to stop breeding and increase spay/ neuter. I've read most of the responses and haven't seen a single PB owner who purchased their dog from a breeder; they are all "rescues" and many of the owners have waxed poetic about breed abuse causing poor temperament. Eliminating the breeding will decrease opportunity for abuse and will result in fewer shelter dogs who need homes. These are GOOD THINGS: less abuse, fewer homeless dogs.

I am a pit bull owner above and I have no problem with an effort like the above for pit bulls and all dogs, I just don’t think it would ever happen. How will it be enforced? Who is going to pay for genetic testing to determine whether the dog is a pit bull and for the spay/neuter?

it should SL b illegal to own any dog that is not neutered. Unless you are a licensed and inspected breeder. Of no pit bulls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why the pitbull & pitbull mix owners are having a conniption. A pit bull ban does not mean that someone will come to your door and shoot your dog. It means that there will be a purposeful effort to stop breeding and increase spay/ neuter. I've read most of the responses and haven't seen a single PB owner who purchased their dog from a breeder; they are all "rescues" and many of the owners have waxed poetic about breed abuse causing poor temperament. Eliminating the breeding will decrease opportunity for abuse and will result in fewer shelter dogs who need homes. These are GOOD THINGS: less abuse, fewer homeless dogs.

I am a pit bull owner above and I have no problem with an effort like the above for pit bulls and all dogs, I just don’t think it would ever happen. How will it be enforced? Who is going to pay for genetic testing to determine whether the dog is a pit bull and for the spay/neuter?

it should SL b illegal to own any dog that is not neutered. Unless you are a licensed and inspected breeder. Of no pit bulls

No arguments there. Also not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I often hear "guns don't kill people, people kill people". The same should be applied to pit bulls. Pit bulls don't kill people, irresponsible pit bull owners kill people.

The ASPCA web site gives the breed an endorsement that could fit a golden retriever. It says, “A well-socialized and well-trained pit bull is one of the most delightful, intelligent, and gentle dogs imaginable.”

There is a lot of misinformation listed by people on this page. Their jaws don't "lock". Because they are terriers, they grab something and shake it.

Another misconception is their high tolerance for pain. Most are wimps - they don't like the cold or the rain. It's only when agitated that they may be less resistant to it. Like most other breeds of dogs.

The dog suddenly "snaps". This is not specific to this one breed. Any dog is capable of snapping.

Most pit bull owners and rescues are incredibly responsible. You cannot adopt these animals without them being spayed or neutered first.

To simply "banish the breed" isn't the answer. I have owned two pit bulls and they have been a wonderful family pet. Arguably, neither were the big, stocky, wide-mouthed pit bulls people often imagine, but that's what makes banning the breed unfair. I'm sure many of you have never known a pit bull, but come onto these pages and spread misinformation and run screaming in the opposite direction when you see one coming down the street.

Educate yourselves.

If all of this is true, then why are pit bulls so much more likely to maim or kill than any other breed — especially the pit bulls who were never involved in dog fighting and weren’t abused?

I don't disagree that they are big, muscular dogs. They are capable of inflicting a lot of damage. It goes back to irresponsible owners. When adopting a dog, do your research! There isn't a website out there that doesn't specifically state that you must know what you are getting with a pit bull. I only adopt puppies, so I know everything about their history. If someone wants to adopt a pit bull that is several years old, well, then you have to consider what may have happened to them in the past - and prepare accordingly! I am very suspect that the dogs that have suddenly snapped were brought into the household at 8 weeks of age. Pit bulls are like all terriers - extremely loyal to "their people" and are extremely attached to the family. It's very hard for me to imagine a dog that you have had since it essentially was born suddenly went crazy and mauled someone to death.

You mean like the two children this thread is about? How were those dogs “loyal” to their family?

This is patently false. They are not known to be loyal which is why half the time you read about these maulings the immediate family are the victims. Their lack of loyalty and unpredictable nature is why you don't really see them as police/military dogs. They can't reliably be trusted to discriminate who they go after or to stop when called off.

I think the line has been blurred between full pit bulls/bully dogs and pit bull mixes. You cannot strap that label on a dog that is a mix of pit bull and another breed. Mine is a pit bull mixed with some other kind of terrier, so yes, she has many terrier traits that other terriers, such as Jack Russells, Westland terriers, etc. Those dogs ARE loyal and family driven. Clearly she inherited more of the "terrier" than the "bully". But she is classified as a "pit bull". So you can't say it's impossible for all pit bulls can't be loving, loyal animals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why the pitbull & pitbull mix owners are having a conniption. A pit bull ban does not mean that someone will come to your door and shoot your dog. It means that there will be a purposeful effort to stop breeding and increase spay/ neuter. I've read most of the responses and haven't seen a single PB owner who purchased their dog from a breeder; they are all "rescues" and many of the owners have waxed poetic about breed abuse causing poor temperament. Eliminating the breeding will decrease opportunity for abuse and will result in fewer shelter dogs who need homes. These are GOOD THINGS: less abuse, fewer homeless dogs.

I am a pit bull owner above and I have no problem with an effort like the above for pit bulls and all dogs, I just don’t think it would ever happen. How will it be enforced? Who is going to pay for genetic testing to determine whether the dog is a pit bull and for the spay/neuter?

I agree it won’t happen but in my opinion all dogs should be spayed/neutered anyway, regardless what type dog it is. And the only dogs who should be bred are mild mannered/non aggressive breeds of dogs like golden retrievers or labs or other really easy going dogs like that. Genetic testing wouldn’t need to be done bc no other breeds would be perpetuated except the calmest ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah sorry, “pit bull bans” aren’t going to happen. My family is also not going to stop owning pit bulls because some of you have a personal vendetta.

I would not want to own an animal that scares so many people. Or perhaps you are okay with being shunned by your neighbors?

My neighbors love my dogs because my dogs are friendly to a fault and have never shown an ounce of aggression in their lives. If they’re scared of them they’re doing a good job of putting a brave face on and enthusiastically petting my dogs.

You really live in a bubble if you think everyone is avoiding all pit bulls. I don’t blame you if you don’t like them or are scared of them, that’s your issue and I support you doing what you need to do to make sure you and your family feel safe, but in my experience people like you just aren’t that common. No one crosses the road when we’re on walks. People stop and pet my dog that loves to jump up on the fence to beg for attention from passers by.

Then you probably don't own a "pit bull." It's more likely a "pit bull mix".

I love my neighbors’ and friends’ pits and pit mixes and I still think they should be banned. It’s not as if I think they should be banned because they’re all monsters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah sorry, “pit bull bans” aren’t going to happen. My family is also not going to stop owning pit bulls because some of you have a personal vendetta.

I would not want to own an animal that scares so many people. Or perhaps you are okay with being shunned by your neighbors?

My neighbors love my dogs because my dogs are friendly to a fault and have never shown an ounce of aggression in their lives. If they’re scared of them they’re doing a good job of putting a brave face on and enthusiastically petting my dogs.

You really live in a bubble if you think everyone is avoiding all pit bulls. I don’t blame you if you don’t like them or are scared of them, that’s your issue and I support you doing what you need to do to make sure you and your family feel safe, but in my experience people like you just aren’t that common. No one crosses the road when we’re on walks. People stop and pet my dog that loves to jump up on the fence to beg for attention from passers by.

Then you probably don't own a "pit bull." It's more likely a "pit bull mix".

I love my neighbors’ and friends’ pits and pit mixes and I still think they should be banned. It’s not as if I think they should be banned because they’re all monsters.

I think you are 100 percent wrong on the ban

[Anonymous]

I think instead of focusing on an unlikely ban we basically need to deprogram the propaganda that pit bulls are “nanny dogs.” They are the only breed with a PR campaign. I know and adore several pit bulls but I do not understand how they became so ubiquitous.

Nobody runs PR campaigns for Dobermans or Rottweilers. It's "don't get this dog unless you're willing to deal with potential aggression issues." Should be the same for pitties.

[Anonymous]

Shelters are also clearly pushing dangerous dogs on people too. I know these dogs were purchased but I did some looking st shelters snd they were pushing all these sketchy dogs, often pit mixes

I think the no kill movement was a mistake. Not all dogs can be saved and putting dangerous dogs in homes is crazy, especially since younb children tend to be most at risk. People over dogs, always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New mom with a 3 month old who takes a lot of neighborhood walks in an area with a few pitbulls. What do I do to prevent an attack or how do I stay vigilant while walking around with my baby in a stroller? New fear unlocked. My heart hurts for those children.

You don't need to worry about this. It's much more likely to happen in someone's home with their own dogs. I mean don't walk your stroller into strange back yards. If you see a loose dog that seems aggressive, go the other way, look for shelter, and yell for help. But I doubt you ever will. Feeling like you need to "stay vigilant" about this is unreasonable postpartum anxiety. Trust me I have been there!! In terms of animal attacks from animals that aren't your animal, you should probably be more worried about rabid raccoons. Which is to say not worried at all until the moment you're faced with a rabid raccoon.

I disagree with this. I still have a scar and huge dog fear due to being attacked in my stroller by a German shepherd when I was 2. My mom had scars all over her arms because she had to reach in front of the lunging dog to unbuckle me from my stroller. The dog came running out of a house, jumped on my stroller and tipped it over and growled and bit. I have tried hard not to make my kids irrationally scared of dogs, but it is hard. We avoid anything that looks like a Rottweiler or pit or pit mix

Why? You were attacked by a German Shepard.

Because I was 2. I don’t remember the specifics of what the dog looked like but statistically I know what dog breeds are most likely to do something similar to my children (or me). Those happen to be primarily pits and secondarily Rottweilers.

[Anonymous]

I’m sure the dad insisted they get them.