Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it funny that people get so defensive about their choices that they assume no more than one person may choose something else.

I wrote the 07/18/2016 18:03 post. I don't live in Annandale, and I didn't write the "15 miles" post. I also don't have a kid in CCL.

Plenty of people have issues with the travel, and it holds back the league.

I think CCL's administrators are well-intentioned, and I think they're trying to deal with the travel. But the bottom line is that you're still driving to Roanoke for a game that's not as good as they game you could have in Reston.

To answer another question: Who would Loudoun's fifth and sixth teams play? Same as now -- ODSL teams. Except they might have more local teams in the league.

Again, don't join the team that plays in a league that travels so far. Nobody is being defensive but complaining about travel that is avoidable if you make a simple choice.

It really doesn't matter if you made any of the posts that I referred to or not, the solution is the same regardless, put your kid on a team in a local league. I am sorry that you want the status without the inconvenience. If everyone agreed with you the leagues would fold, but they don't because people listen listen to the sales pitch.

The only way the leagues will change if people actually vote with their feet, but for every kid that walks there are 5 ready, willing and waiting to fill their spots. So either suck it up or leave, but your first world problem is your own.

Fine. Just remember not to beat your chest about CCL having all the best non-DA, non-ECNL players in the area when there are a lot of good players opting out of all that travel.

(Granted, this area has a lot of pretty good players who don't play travel at all. Or they play cheaply at some of the low-cost ODSL clubs that turn up at tournaments and beat a lot of unsuspecting teams from other leagues.)

"Status without the inconvenience"? What status? If I cared about impressing someone stuck in traffic behind me, I'd buy a fancier car. Probably a better investment than traveling all over creation just to claim "elite" status, and I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go.

The "status" isn't the particular league, the 'status" is that you know your kid is no longer on the "A" team. The tone of your responses really begin to express nothing more than your own fatigue and burnout. When you said, "I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go", this stopped being about your kid and it started to be about you. That is fine, you write the checks and drive the car so you are entitled to wanting to be selfish but perhaps instead of ranting on this site about all the terrible travel you should instead talk with your kid about his realistic soccer goals and find some compromise.

Dude, my kids play NCSL and rec.

I just have these things called "empathy" and "friends." And I happen to know a lot of people who work in soccer for a variety of reasons -- work, school, church, etc.

So, frankly, my input is far less biased than yours. I'm not driving to Roanoke or Virginia Beach now, and I don't plan to.

Consider me an educated third party. And I'm telling you it looks pretty silly to me to drive to Roanoke for a blowout instead of driving to Annandale for a competitive game. If you think otherwise, fine -- but **make the case for it**. Don't just launch personal attacks on anonymous people. Yeesh!

And that is why you are not in CCL. See how that works? It is called choice and doing what works for you. Nobody is FORCED to do anything against their will. CCL's schedule does not work for you or your family so you do not participate. That is the point.

Whether you or the other poster agrees or not there are local and regional leagues. We can debate the supposed competitive nature of the various leagues until we are blue in the face but what cant be denied is that there are options for competitive soccer in the area that do not require day trips. If you do not like travel or day trips then DO NOT join a Regional league and then complain about the day trips. This is really quite simple and is all my point is.

The other poster wants to reorganize CCL to fit their needs. They claim that the status of the league or the "A" Team is not a factor and yet they still remain with the league. It is my supposition that the poster is in fact concerned with possibly having to put their kid on a B team in order to meet their family lifestyle and play in a more schedule friendly NCSL. Yet they remain in CCL, unhappy mind you, over ego and nothing more.

What we have here can best be summed up by one line in a REM song:
"Offer me alternatives, offer me solutions and I decline...."

You simply refuse to acknowledge that there's a bigger picture here. It's not *just* about personal choice. Having this many leagues drawing teams from this region means we ALL have to travel more. It means NCSL has to draw its U9 and U10 divisions over wider areas, so they have to travel farther. ODSL can barely manage two divisions at U9.

And it means the goal of concentrating "elite" players in one league is very far from reality. Some clubs and parents don't want the travel of CCL or VPL, so they're in NCSL. In older age groups, some get tired of blowouts in leagues that don't do promotion/relegation, so they join EDP.

Is it really such a sin to wonder aloud if there's a better way of doing things?

Nobody claimed elite players were "concentrated" in any particular league. That is something a club will sell you based on the league that they are in. Since there are many leagues, with different philosophies behind their structures, (i.e. CCL and VPL use club passes and club scheduling, while NCSL/WAGS and ODSL use promotion relegation and are team based) all with various pros and cons. It is up to YOU the consumer to determine what works best for you.

The only thing anyone seemed to care about was the travel, well, play in a league that travels less. But since that is unacceptable you move the goal posts yet again and claim that it is about blowouts. Well guess what, these are kids playing soccer, there will be blowouts regardless of the league that your kid plays in.

And as far as two divisions at U9 in ODSL goes, exactly how many 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th teams do you expect clubs to have in order to have a "robust" ODSL?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CCL does not relegate and really do not keep standings/post scores in the traditional sense, except that the top club overall is recognized, as is the top team in each age group.

CCL doesn't relegate but they do track standings for each team on their website. See, for example: http://www.clubchampionsleague.com/standings/?league=1&club=0&group=1&gender=male&season=3&submit=Submit

Standings but they don't post scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it would make a lot of sense to merge NCSL and ODSL so that some of these better smaller clubs can get some competition. I agree with a previous poster that Cougar and Dynamite are doing very well at the younger ages. However, I doubt there will be much support for keeping score at U9/U10 so that a pro/rel system can be implemented at those ages, so even if they merged, you would still get a lot of uneven matches at the youngest ages.

Earlier, someone made reference that some parents want the status of their son playing in CCL. It's definitely true. A parent I know left our NCSL club to go to a CCL club just because he found out it was CCL. He didn't have any idea what CCL really was but heard it was an "elite" league. Last year over both seasons, my son's NCSL team (he played on the "A" team) beat 3 CCL "A" teams, tied one, and lost to one. They also beat a non "A" CCL team. They beat 2 YDL teams and lost to one. They lost to two NCSL teams and tied 4 times. Lots of competition around and between leagues.

All any team has to do is apply to NCSL. It isn't some club with a secret handshake you know. In order to get into NCSL you only have to be successful in the top division of ODSL. Play crappy in the lowest division of NCSL and you end up in ODSL as you are relegated out.

There are many coaches that simply won't apply to move their kids up a division or league because they simply like winning where they are.

[Anonymous]

This is incorrect. NCSL does not accept individual teams. Only clubs with minimum of 4 teams above u10 with at least 1 u15. Heard it was going to increase due to merger w wags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is incorrect. NCSL does not accept individual teams. Only clubs with minimum of 4 teams above u10 with at least 1 u15. Heard it was going to increase due to merger w wags.

Show me the U9 ODSL team that is part of a club with two teams or less:

Under 9

U09 Boys Div Jefferson
OD0601B ALEX 07 Black
OD0616B ALEX 07 Silver
OD0617B ARL Juventus Silver
OD0604B BRYC Blaze
OD0608B GRFL 06 Revolution Fiorentina
OD0632B LMVS Patriots 06 Black
OD0610B LOUD 06B Gray
OD0611B REST 06 Yellow
OD0613B TAFC Team America 06 Red Spartans
OD0615B WIN United 06b

U09 Boys Div Monroe
OD0631B ABGC United 06
OD0602B ARL Juventus Gold
OD0603B BAC Blast
OD0606B CYA 06B Black
OD0619B GRFL 06 Force
OD0618B GRFL 06 Revolution Roma
OD0609B GSC U9 Boys Black
OD0633B SYA Cardinals '06 Silver
OD0612B SYC Lions Green
OD0634B VSA 07B Jr Academy Vardy
OD0614B VYS Dragons Silver

[Anonymous]

You're missing the point, as another poster pointed out IFC had an issue with fields so they didn't get accepted. Dynamite and Cougars are relatively new so not sure as to why they wouldn't get in. According to ODSL Cougars only has 3 teams on the boys side and 1 girls none above U13.

These are NCSL regulations for entry and there are more. Straight out of their application form. I was actually wrong it's 5 teams w 2 being U14 and above.

"In order to insure that only competitive clubs petition to join the NCSL, all new clubs must have a
minimum of five existing teams for which records can be provided (excluding U9's and U10's)
documenting their play. Two of the five teams must be U14 or older."

[Anonymous]

They are talking about entry to NCSL by small clubs not whether large clubs put their 3/4/5 in ODSL. We know that happens but that with a merger it would allow the top teams currently in ODSL that don't have clubs in NCSL to earn the opportunity to play against the other strong teams. Key word is earn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is incorrect. NCSL does not accept individual teams. Only clubs with minimum of 4 teams above u10 with at least 1 u15. Heard it was going to increase due to merger w wags.

How many times can you move the goal posts?

Ok, so how does this prevent any particular team from applying to NCSL as long as their club meet the requirements? I mean seriously, if you can't field enough teams throughout multiple age groups to get accepted into NCSL then I really don't know what to tell you but these are not stringent requirements for a reasonable club to be accepted into a league. Change clubs, but stop with the I "don't get the big picture" crap. You simply don't get that this really comes down to personal choice.

CCL requires travel. Fact, don't like the travel then join a team that plays in NCSL, problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Well these small clubs are trying to grow and trying to build good teams which they have done in order to get to NCSL. Is not that they don't want to. If you suggest that teams continue to leave then these clubs will not get an opportunity to grow. Again the argument was for a merger between two leagues that offer very similar travel distance options. It would just be NCSL increasing their number of divisions and all teams from all clubs would have the opportunity to compete against each other. If clubs want to field their tops in CCL where it requires more travel than that is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well these small clubs are trying to grow and trying to build good teams which they have done in order to get to NCSL. Is not that they don't want to. If you suggest that teams continue to leave then these clubs will not get an opportunity to grow. Again the argument was for a merger between two leagues that offer very similar travel distance options. It would just be NCSL increasing their number of divisions and all teams from all clubs would have the opportunity to compete against each other. If clubs want to field their tops in CCL where it requires more travel than that is fine.

I am not suggesting any team leave anything. I am suggesting that parents look into where their kids will play and what league they will be in and the implications of what that means. If you, as a parent, don't like the travel involved in CCL, NPL, ECNL, DA or whatever, then seek a team/club that plays in a league that works better. THAT is all I'm suggesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody claimed elite players were "concentrated" in any particular league.

Check out the post soon after yours, in which someone claimed that the NCSL teams beating their DS's CCL teams were only doing so through kick-and-rush play. Right. Alexandria actually posts passing stats for its U9 teams. Reston also plays beautiful possession soccer.

So yes -- a lot of people are convinced CCL = good soccer and NCSL = not-good soccer. Clever marketing.

The only thing anyone seemed to care about was the travel, well, play in a league that travels less. But since that is unacceptable you move the goal posts yet again and claim that it is about blowouts. Well guess what, these are kids playing soccer, there will be blowouts regardless of the league that your kid plays in.

Not moving goal posts. Trying to get you to look at bigger picture. Removing clubs from NCSL and ODSL forces more teams to travel more.

And in a lot of cases, they're traveling more for lesser games.

Again, you fail to make the case for traveling to Roanoke or Richmond or wherever for a game that won't be as evenly matched as a game in Annandale. You can keep crying about "moving the goalposts" and just stick your fingers in your ears when people suggest that there are too many leagues in this area, but at some point, shouldn't you at least try to make a point?

And as far as two divisions at U9 in ODSL goes, exactly how many 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th teams do you expect clubs to have in order to have a "robust" ODSL?

A couple of years ago, most clubs had their 3rd and 4th teams in ODSL. Now a lot of 3rd teams are in NCSL or CCL2, and a few teams are in YDL.

All any team has to do is apply to NCSL. It isn't some club with a secret handshake you know. In order to get into NCSL you only have to be successful in the top division of ODSL. Play crappy in the lowest division of NCSL and you end up in ODSL as you are relegated out.

Incorrect. Or else IFC would be in NCSL by now. Just check the NCSL meeting minutes and the policy book that others have cited.

There are many coaches that simply won't apply to move their kids up a division or league because they simply like winning where they are.

This, actually, may have a little bit of truth to it.

How many times can you move the goal posts?

Are you using "you" as a plural here? Because I didn't write the post to which you're responding.

Change clubs, but stop with the I "don't get the big picture" crap.

I was the one who said "big picture," not the post to which you've responded.

You simply don't get that this really comes down to personal choice.

Here's an analogy, though I'm sure you'll just say I'm moving the goalposts ...

Let's say you're at a breakfast buffet. Eggs, bacon, waffles -- everything looks OK.

But someone comes in and subdivides everything. The eggs are tossed across the lobby. The bacon has to be special-ordered. You have to go across the street to use the waffle iron.

It's still "personal choice," sure. But the choices don't look as appetizing, do they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody claimed elite players were "concentrated" in any particular league.

Check out the post soon after yours, in which someone claimed that the NCSL teams beating their DS's CCL teams were only doing so through kick-and-rush play. Right. Alexandria actually posts passing stats for its U9 teams. Reston also plays beautiful possession soccer.

So yes -- a lot of people are convinced CCL = good soccer and NCSL = not-good soccer. Clever marketing.

The only thing anyone seemed to care about was the travel, well, play in a league that travels less. But since that is unacceptable you move the goal posts yet again and claim that it is about blowouts. Well guess what, these are kids playing soccer, there will be blowouts regardless of the league that your kid plays in.

Not moving goal posts. Trying to get you to look at bigger picture. Removing clubs from NCSL and ODSL forces more teams to travel more.

And in a lot of cases, they're traveling more for lesser games.

Again, you fail to make the case for traveling to Roanoke or Richmond or wherever for a game that won't be as evenly matched as a game in Annandale. You can keep crying about "moving the goalposts" and just stick your fingers in your ears when people suggest that there are too many leagues in this area, but at some point, shouldn't you at least try to make a point?

And as far as two divisions at U9 in ODSL goes, exactly how many 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th teams do you expect clubs to have in order to have a "robust" ODSL?

A couple of years ago, most clubs had their 3rd and 4th teams in ODSL. Now a lot of 3rd teams are in NCSL or CCL2, and a few teams are in YDL.

All any team has to do is apply to NCSL. It isn't some club with a secret handshake you know. In order to get into NCSL you only have to be successful in the top division of ODSL. Play crappy in the lowest division of NCSL and you end up in ODSL as you are relegated out.

Incorrect. Or else IFC would be in NCSL by now. Just check the NCSL meeting minutes and the policy book that others have cited.

There are many coaches that simply won't apply to move their kids up a division or league because they simply like winning where they are.

This, actually, may have a little bit of truth to it.

How many times can you move the goal posts?

Are you using "you" as a plural here? Because I didn't write the post to which you're responding.

Change clubs, but stop with the I "don't get the big picture" crap.

I was the one who said "big picture," not the post to which you've responded.

You simply don't get that this really comes down to personal choice.

Here's an analogy, though I'm sure you'll just say I'm moving the goalposts ...

Let's say you're at a breakfast buffet. Eggs, bacon, waffles -- everything looks OK.

But someone comes in and subdivides everything. The eggs are tossed across the lobby. The bacon has to be special-ordered. You have to go across the street to use the waffle iron.

It's still "personal choice," sure. But the choices don't look as appetizing, do they?

Play in NCSL!!!!!!!!!

Jesus, I have said nothing to the contrary. I have said nothing in regards to clubs leaving NCSL. I have never claimed one league to be above the other, in fact I have gone out of my way to say that is another debate. All that is at stake here is for a family, if the travel in CCL is worth it. I have said that it is not, so take your kid out of your current team and place them on a team that plays in a league that is more suitable to their lifestyle. End of story.

The other leagues still exist, NCSL still exists, ODSL still exists. These leagues exist and these leagues have teams, as long as that is a fact then this family has a choice. CCL is FAR from a monopoly. All you are doing is moving goal posts and throwing straw men out there.

The only thing at issue here is does this family NEED to travel, and is this family forced to travel. Demonstrate to me that they are forced to do either.

[Anonymous]

Which is why small clubs not in NCSL that have built or are building good programs, want to get in. They don't want to lose players that they have been working with for years because they are not able to have access to better competition. Yes all parents have the option to make what ever choice they want and should decide what is best for their kids. Small clubs just want the opportunity to participate in the dance.

[Anonymous]

Someone mentioned Reston playing beautiful soccer. Maybe at older ages but watch their U9 and U10 top teams. They just punt and punt and punt. They have their biggest fastest kids up top. It's really sad. Alexandria plays great soccer. I certainly agree with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Which is why small clubs not in NCSL that have built or are building good programs, want to get in. They don't want to lose players that they have been working with for years because they are not able to have access to better competition. Yes all parents have the option to make what ever choice they want and should decide what is best for their kids. Small clubs just want the opportunity to participate in the dance.

We were not talking about small clubs. I don't even know how they got into the conversation.

The discussion has been about a family that is not satisfied with the Travel in a CCL club. Jesus H Christ.

It has been recommended that they leave their CCL Club or team, and play for a team in a more suitable league for their travel.

If they are in a CCL club they likely have teams in NCSL or ODSL. You are combining different issues.