Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:QUESTION:

If, per NCAA rules, college coaches aren't allowed to contact players for recruiting purposes until their junior/senior year, then how do we have all these verbal commits from high school freshmen and eighth graders?

Contact is through club coaches to start. Players can talk to college coaches while they're on campus visiting -- that's when the commits happen.

Players can also call coaches prior to junior year, and coaches are permitted to answer and speak to the prospect. But coaches can't return the players call or initiate calls to the player. It's all pretty absurd.

So if my 8th-9th grader isn't being contacted by a college via club coach, and isn't verbally committed to a college by 8th-9th grade, then are they assed-out to play in college???

No, most girls don't commit until 11th grade (either the summer before or during that year), but 10th grade is not all that unusual any more. And plenty of girls don't commit until 12th grade. It really depends on the player.

Boys tend to get recruited later, so 11th grade is somewhat early for them and most are committing in 12th grade.

SO if I take my 9th grader on an "unofficial visit" and the coach says "Oh hey wanna play here?" and my kid says "YES!" then do I send in an announcement to SoccerWire that my 9th-grader has verbally committed to Local University?

[Anonymous]

If often comes down to how many fields the club is able to control. Read through the minutes this past year, and you'll see they rejected IFC again over issues like that. IFC is registering some teams through VISTA, and they're doing just fine in NCSL. I think they even put a team in EDP.

Cougars and Dynamite crank out teams that are simply overwhelming ODSL right now.

And we need the ODSL level of soccer. Some kids play ODSL for U9 and U10 and then emerge as strong NCSL/CCL players by U12/U13.

"But ODSL is shrinking. Our pyramid is turning upside-down. Everyone wants to be "elite," so they pull their teams into CCL, CCL2, YDL (U9/U10) and whatever else. Clubs can now enter three teams in NCSL's lower age groups to keep up the numbers in NCSL, so ODSL is neglected.

It's ridiculous. At U9/U10, we should have tons of teams in ODSL or maybe NCSL. The "elite" competitions are generally delusional and totally lopsided."

I agree with this comment and the one above about a possible merger between NCSL/ODSL. Clubs like IFC, Cougars, and Dynamite are creating good teams but end up losing out by not being exposed to equivalent competition as they grow because NCSL may not except them. I think one of the requirements is a U15 team which for a small/young club that may not be possible for quite some time and therefore their younger players end up blowing away the competition which is not fun for anyone.

All a merger would do is increase the number of divisions in NCSL. The top teams would still play against top teams and the bottom ones in lower divisions. There should be 1 Regional league and not multiple. If anything, it's an incentive for the weaker teams to work harder and develop.

As previous poster mentioned, some kids start in ODSL and as they develop, end up in top teams of bigger clubs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CCL2 should partnet with NCSL or invite NCSL teams in, they definitely need more teams.

Nah--is argue the few teams in CCL2 should leave for NCSL.

Your right it may be in the teams best interest to leave for NCSL but I think that's where a lot of them used to play, and they must have left for a reason.

Yes--it was for the convenience of the coaching staff.

Also, to pander to the league.

The coaches could be at same fields, same day. They could build a monopoly.

As a parent of a player on a third team in CCL2, it sucked. NCSL was much, much competitive for our team.

OMG you cannot even get out of the way of your own narrative to realize what a tool you are. CCL2 does not drive "all over the state". There are no VA Beach trips. At least look at the Clubs in the league before you spew things that are not based in reality.

http://www.clubchampionsleague.com/clubs/

No wonder you are unhappy with CCL, you never, ever once looked into it before you said yes for your kid.

+1. CCL2 was designed so the CCL and its clubs could make still more money off parents, while at the same time pulling more teams away from NCSL. It's not for the benefit of parents and kids. If your kid is a C-team level player, better to go to an NCSL/ODSL club where your kid's team can have competitive games and not travel across the state for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CCL2 should partnet with NCSL or invite NCSL teams in, they definitely need more teams.

Nah--is argue the few teams in CCL2 should leave for NCSL.

Your right it may be in the teams best interest to leave for NCSL but I think that's where a lot of them used to play, and they must have left for a reason.

Yes--it was for the convenience of the coaching staff.

Also, to pander to the league.

The coaches could be at same fields, same day. They could build a monopoly.

As a parent of a player on a third team in CCL2, it sucked. NCSL was much, much competitive for our team.

+1. CCL2 was designed so the CCL and its clubs could make still more money off parents, while at the same time pulling more teams away from NCSL. It's not for the benefit of parents and kids. If your kid is a C-team level player, better to go to an NCSL/ODSL club where your kid's team can have competitive games and not travel across the state for no reason.

OMG you cannot even get out of the way of your own narrative to realize what a tool you are. CCL2 does not drive "all over the state". There are no VA Beach trips. At least look at the Clubs in the league before you spew things that are not based in reality.

http://www.clubchampionsleague.com/clubs/

No wonder you are unhappy with CCL, you never, ever once looked into it before you said yes for your kid.

+1. CCL2 was designed so the CCL and its clubs could make still more money off parents, while at the same time pulling more teams away from NCSL. It's not for the benefit of parents and kids. If your kid is a C-team level player, better to go to an NCSL/ODSL club where your kid's team can have competitive games and not travel across the state for no reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

CCL2 should partnet with NCSL or invite NCSL teams in, they definitely need more teams.

Nah--is argue the few teams in CCL2 should leave for NCSL.

Your right it may be in the teams best interest to leave for NCSL but I think that's where a lot of them used to play, and they must have left for a reason.

Yes--it was for the convenience of the coaching staff.

Also, to pander to the league.

The coaches could be at same fields, same day. They could build a monopoly.

As a parent of a player on a third team in CCL2, it sucked. NCSL was much, much competitive for our team.

+1. CCL2 was designed so the CCL and its clubs could make still more money off parents, while at the same time pulling more teams away from NCSL. It's not for the benefit of parents and kids. If your kid is a C-team level player, better to go to an NCSL/ODSL club where your kid's team can have competitive games and not travel across the state for no reason.

Wouldn't cost be a benefit ? I'm pretty sure NCSL teams have to pay for a roster of 22 no matter how many players are on the team. I'm not sure what CCL2 charges each team but it has to be a lot less since those clubs run CCL themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think a good portion of the smaller clubs like where they are at. Again, we bemoan these leagues and the travel but not everyone wants to be a part of them, just accept that. Smaller clubs often like their role, which provides lower cost competitive soccer that kids and families can enjoy. Not everyone wants to be a part of the "rat race".

To the "I hate driving to VA Beach for a league game" join a excellent small club and just enjoy the experience.

Not about the "rat race" but the small clubs wanting the exposure to better competition and the opportunity to continue growing. Small clubs can continue to offer competitive soccer at a lower cost. Most of the cost goes to paying coaches. Most ODSL small clubs just want to have access to NCSL just to play against better opposition. The travel time in ODSL and NCSL is about the same. Why should ODSL clubs/teams only be allowed exposure to better teams via tournaments? Like everyone else, they want competition on a weekend basis. It is what it is but the structure and set-up in NCSL and ODSL is not very different.

TBH, they should probably merge like NCSL/WAGS and just expand the divisions where all teams will have the opportunity to move up or down. The cost per team to play in each is about the same.

Not a great idea. NCSL is already huge. ODSL is where clubs put their 3rd, 4th, 5th etc teams. My small club's 1st and 2nd teams are far better and the games would not be even. Let ODSL remain for the less-competitive kids. It's a pretty big league as is, no?

Just not true. Our 3rd team is in CCL2 which is horrible. Zero competition.

In the top division of NCSL you have the A team of many great smaller clubs---many that can beat CCL A teams in tournaments. Our 4th team was in NCSL and faced much tougher competition than our B and our C team in CCL/CCL2. Our B team was winning by double digits in CCL, as was our C team in CCL2. There is no relegation so it doesn't get better over time.

As I suspected, the 'better' CCL is rubbish.

[Anonymous]

I think it would make a lot of sense to merge NCSL and ODSL so that some of these better smaller clubs can get some competition. I agree with a previous poster that Cougar and Dynamite are doing very well at the younger ages. However, I doubt there will be much support for keeping score at U9/U10 so that a pro/rel system can be implemented at those ages, so even if they merged, you would still get a lot of uneven matches at the youngest ages.

Earlier, someone made reference that some parents want the status of their son playing in CCL. It's definitely true. A parent I know left our NCSL club to go to a CCL club just because he found out it was CCL. He didn't have any idea what CCL really was but heard it was an "elite" league. Last year over both seasons, my son's NCSL team (he played on the "A" team) beat 3 CCL "A" teams, tied one, and lost to one. They also beat a non "A" CCL team. They beat 2 YDL teams and lost to one. They lost to two NCSL teams and tied 4 times. Lots of competition around and between leagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My small club's 1st and 2nd teams are far better and the games would not be even. Let ODSL remain for the less-competitive kids. "

Your club is not small if you 3/4/5 teams. Your 1/2 teams would not play against current odsl teams unless they earned their right via promotion/relegation. Many teams in ODSL's 1st Division that can compete with higher division teams in NCSL, the problem is that their club is not in NCSL. Small clubs are those with 1/2 teams per age group. The kids are not "less-competitive" just because they are in ODSL otherwise these teams would not do as well as they have shown in tournament play.

My small club only has 2 teams. They have played against many ODSL 'top' teams in scrimmages, friendlies, etc., and won by double-digits. It has always been my understanding from hearing from many soccer parents that ODSL is the less-competitive league and mainly consists the larger clubs's 3rd, 4th, 5th teams, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it funny that people get so defensive about their choices that they assume no more than one person may choose something else.

I wrote the 07/18/2016 18:03 post. I don't live in Annandale, and I didn't write the "15 miles" post. I also don't have a kid in CCL.

Plenty of people have issues with the travel, and it holds back the league.

I think CCL's administrators are well-intentioned, and I think they're trying to deal with the travel. But the bottom line is that you're still driving to Roanoke for a game that's not as good as they game you could have in Reston.

To answer another question: Who would Loudoun's fifth and sixth teams play? Same as now -- ODSL teams. Except they might have more local teams in the league.

Again, don't join the team that plays in a league that travels so far. Nobody is being defensive but complaining about travel that is avoidable if you make a simple choice.

It really doesn't matter if you made any of the posts that I referred to or not, the solution is the same regardless, put your kid on a team in a local league. I am sorry that you want the status without the inconvenience. If everyone agreed with you the leagues would fold, but they don't because people listen listen to the sales pitch.

The only way the leagues will change if people actually vote with their feet, but for every kid that walks there are 5 ready, willing and waiting to fill their spots. So either suck it up or leave, but your first world problem is your own.

Fine. Just remember not to beat your chest about CCL having all the best non-DA, non-ECNL players in the area when there are a lot of good players opting out of all that travel.

(Granted, this area has a lot of pretty good players who don't play travel at all. Or they play cheaply at some of the low-cost ODSL clubs that turn up at tournaments and beat a lot of unsuspecting teams from other leagues.)

"Status without the inconvenience"? What status? If I cared about impressing someone stuck in traffic behind me, I'd buy a fancier car. Probably a better investment than traveling all over creation just to claim "elite" status, and I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go.

The "status" isn't the particular league, the 'status" is that you know your kid is no longer on the "A" team. The tone of your responses really begin to express nothing more than your own fatigue and burnout. When you said, "I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go", this stopped being about your kid and it started to be about you. That is fine, you write the checks and drive the car so you are entitled to wanting to be selfish but perhaps instead of ranting on this site about all the terrible travel you should instead talk with your kid about his realistic soccer goals and find some compromise.

Dude, my kids play NCSL and rec.

I just have these things called "empathy" and "friends." And I happen to know a lot of people who work in soccer for a variety of reasons -- work, school, church, etc.

So, frankly, my input is far less biased than yours. I'm not driving to Roanoke or Virginia Beach now, and I don't plan to.

Consider me an educated third party. And I'm telling you it looks pretty silly to me to drive to Roanoke for a blowout instead of driving to Annandale for a competitive game. If you think otherwise, fine -- but **make the case for it**. Don't just launch personal attacks on anonymous people. Yeesh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"My small club's 1st and 2nd teams are far better and the games would not be even. Let ODSL remain for the less-competitive kids. "

Your club is not small if you 3/4/5 teams. Your 1/2 teams would not play against current odsl teams unless they earned their right via promotion/relegation. Many teams in ODSL's 1st Division that can compete with higher division teams in NCSL, the problem is that their club is not in NCSL. Small clubs are those with 1/2 teams per age group. The kids are not "less-competitive" just because they are in ODSL otherwise these teams would not do as well as they have shown in tournament play.

My small club only has 2 teams. They have played against many ODSL 'top' teams in scrimmages, friendlies, etc., and won by double-digits. It has always been my understanding from hearing from many soccer parents that ODSL is the less-competitive league and mainly consists the larger clubs's 3rd, 4th, 5th teams, etc.

If you're beating the top ODSL teams (Dynamite, Cougars, maybe some from far-flung areas) by double-digits, you have a really, really good team.

Check out the ODSL U10 D1 standings from the spring (they're public): http://www.odsl.org/schedules/Spring2016/81759390.html

Warrenton and the top Cougars team simply ran over everyone except for one Loudoun team, and Loudoun draws from a HUGE area.

Check out U11: http://www.odsl.org/schedules/Spring2016/81759394.html

That's Dynamite, Cougars and Tri-County (West Virginia) beating a team from Braddock Road (where ODSL teams are usually run out of the rec department), Great Falls' 3rd or 4th team, PAC's third, etc.

So yes -- generally speaking, ODSL is the less competitive league. Larger clubs like Loudoun, Alexandria, Vienna and so on will put their fourth and fifth teams in it. For smaller clubs that also play NCSL, you may be getting their third teams. But then you have clubs whose top teams played in ODSL, and they'd be competitive in a lot of leagues.

[Anonymous]

Just announced: The Fairfax location for ODP & D-ODP training will be South County MS & HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it funny that people get so defensive about their choices that they assume no more than one person may choose something else.

I wrote the 07/18/2016 18:03 post. I don't live in Annandale, and I didn't write the "15 miles" post. I also don't have a kid in CCL.

Plenty of people have issues with the travel, and it holds back the league.

I think CCL's administrators are well-intentioned, and I think they're trying to deal with the travel. But the bottom line is that you're still driving to Roanoke for a game that's not as good as they game you could have in Reston.

To answer another question: Who would Loudoun's fifth and sixth teams play? Same as now -- ODSL teams. Except they might have more local teams in the league.

Again, don't join the team that plays in a league that travels so far. Nobody is being defensive but complaining about travel that is avoidable if you make a simple choice.

It really doesn't matter if you made any of the posts that I referred to or not, the solution is the same regardless, put your kid on a team in a local league. I am sorry that you want the status without the inconvenience. If everyone agreed with you the leagues would fold, but they don't because people listen listen to the sales pitch.

The only way the leagues will change if people actually vote with their feet, but for every kid that walks there are 5 ready, willing and waiting to fill their spots. So either suck it up or leave, but your first world problem is your own.

Fine. Just remember not to beat your chest about CCL having all the best non-DA, non-ECNL players in the area when there are a lot of good players opting out of all that travel.

(Granted, this area has a lot of pretty good players who don't play travel at all. Or they play cheaply at some of the low-cost ODSL clubs that turn up at tournaments and beat a lot of unsuspecting teams from other leagues.)

"Status without the inconvenience"? What status? If I cared about impressing someone stuck in traffic behind me, I'd buy a fancier car. Probably a better investment than traveling all over creation just to claim "elite" status, and I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go.

The "status" isn't the particular league, the 'status" is that you know your kid is no longer on the "A" team. The tone of your responses really begin to express nothing more than your own fatigue and burnout. When you said, "I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go", this stopped being about your kid and it started to be about you. That is fine, you write the checks and drive the car so you are entitled to wanting to be selfish but perhaps instead of ranting on this site about all the terrible travel you should instead talk with your kid about his realistic soccer goals and find some compromise.

Dude, my kids play NCSL and rec.

I just have these things called "empathy" and "friends." And I happen to know a lot of people who work in soccer for a variety of reasons -- work, school, church, etc.

So, frankly, my input is far less biased than yours. I'm not driving to Roanoke or Virginia Beach now, and I don't plan to.

Consider me an educated third party. And I'm telling you it looks pretty silly to me to drive to Roanoke for a blowout instead of driving to Annandale for a competitive game. If you think otherwise, fine -- but **make the case for it**. Don't just launch personal attacks on anonymous people. Yeesh!

And that is why you are not in CCL. See how that works? It is called choice and doing what works for you. Nobody is FORCED to do anything against their will. CCL's schedule does not work for you or your family so you do not participate. That is the point.

Whether you or the other poster agrees or not there are local and regional leagues. We can debate the supposed competitive nature of the various leagues until we are blue in the face but what cant be denied is that there are options for competitive soccer in the area that do not require day trips. If you do not like travel or day trips then DO NOT join a Regional league and then complain about the day trips. This is really quite simple and is all my point is.

The other poster wants to reorganize CCL to fit their needs. They claim that the status of the league or the "A" Team is not a factor and yet they still remain with the league. It is my supposition that the poster is in fact concerned with possibly having to put their kid on a B team in order to meet their family lifestyle and play in a more schedule friendly NCSL. Yet they remain in CCL, unhappy mind you, over ego and nothing more.

What we have here can best be summed up by one line in a REM song:
"Offer me alternatives, offer me solutions and I decline...."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it funny that people get so defensive about their choices that they assume no more than one person may choose something else.

I wrote the 07/18/2016 18:03 post. I don't live in Annandale, and I didn't write the "15 miles" post. I also don't have a kid in CCL.

Plenty of people have issues with the travel, and it holds back the league.

I think CCL's administrators are well-intentioned, and I think they're trying to deal with the travel. But the bottom line is that you're still driving to Roanoke for a game that's not as good as they game you could have in Reston.

To answer another question: Who would Loudoun's fifth and sixth teams play? Same as now -- ODSL teams. Except they might have more local teams in the league.

Again, don't join the team that plays in a league that travels so far. Nobody is being defensive but complaining about travel that is avoidable if you make a simple choice.

It really doesn't matter if you made any of the posts that I referred to or not, the solution is the same regardless, put your kid on a team in a local league. I am sorry that you want the status without the inconvenience. If everyone agreed with you the leagues would fold, but they don't because people listen listen to the sales pitch.

The only way the leagues will change if people actually vote with their feet, but for every kid that walks there are 5 ready, willing and waiting to fill their spots. So either suck it up or leave, but your first world problem is your own.

Fine. Just remember not to beat your chest about CCL having all the best non-DA, non-ECNL players in the area when there are a lot of good players opting out of all that travel.

(Granted, this area has a lot of pretty good players who don't play travel at all. Or they play cheaply at some of the low-cost ODSL clubs that turn up at tournaments and beat a lot of unsuspecting teams from other leagues.)

"Status without the inconvenience"? What status? If I cared about impressing someone stuck in traffic behind me, I'd buy a fancier car. Probably a better investment than traveling all over creation just to claim "elite" status, and I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go.

The "status" isn't the particular league, the 'status" is that you know your kid is no longer on the "A" team. The tone of your responses really begin to express nothing more than your own fatigue and burnout. When you said, "I'd have more of my weekends free to drive around where *I* want to go", this stopped being about your kid and it started to be about you. That is fine, you write the checks and drive the car so you are entitled to wanting to be selfish but perhaps instead of ranting on this site about all the terrible travel you should instead talk with your kid about his realistic soccer goals and find some compromise.

Dude, my kids play NCSL and rec.

I just have these things called "empathy" and "friends." And I happen to know a lot of people who work in soccer for a variety of reasons -- work, school, church, etc.

So, frankly, my input is far less biased than yours. I'm not driving to Roanoke or Virginia Beach now, and I don't plan to.

Consider me an educated third party. And I'm telling you it looks pretty silly to me to drive to Roanoke for a blowout instead of driving to Annandale for a competitive game. If you think otherwise, fine -- but **make the case for it**. Don't just launch personal attacks on anonymous people. Yeesh!

And that is why you are not in CCL. See how that works? It is called choice and doing what works for you. Nobody is FORCED to do anything against their will. CCL's schedule does not work for you or your family so you do not participate. That is the point.

Whether you or the other poster agrees or not there are local and regional leagues. We can debate the supposed competitive nature of the various leagues until we are blue in the face but what cant be denied is that there are options for competitive soccer in the area that do not require day trips. If you do not like travel or day trips then DO NOT join a Regional league and then complain about the day trips. This is really quite simple and is all my point is.

The other poster wants to reorganize CCL to fit their needs. They claim that the status of the league or the "A" Team is not a factor and yet they still remain with the league. It is my supposition that the poster is in fact concerned with possibly having to put their kid on a B team in order to meet their family lifestyle and play in a more schedule friendly NCSL. Yet they remain in CCL, unhappy mind you, over ego and nothing more.

What we have here can best be summed up by one line in a REM song:
"Offer me alternatives, offer me solutions and I decline...."

You simply refuse to acknowledge that there's a bigger picture here. It's not *just* about personal choice. Having this many leagues drawing teams from this region means we ALL have to travel more. It means NCSL has to draw its U9 and U10 divisions over wider areas, so they have to travel farther. ODSL can barely manage two divisions at U9.

And it means the goal of concentrating "elite" players in one league is very far from reality. Some clubs and parents don't want the travel of CCL or VPL, so they're in NCSL. In older age groups, some get tired of blowouts in leagues that don't do promotion/relegation, so they join EDP.

Is it really such a sin to wonder aloud if there's a better way of doing things?

[Anonymous]

CCL does not relegate and really do not keep standings/post scores in the traditional sense, except that the top club overall is recognized, as is the top team in each age group. This is a positive for us (our DS is U12). At least in theory, coaches are not risking as much by playing kids in different and unfamiliar positions (or on their weak sides). Kids are more likely to take chances and be creative. This philosophy, IMHO, is better for developing kids since the emphasis is development and not as much winning. I cannot recall the scores of any of the games played last season, but I remember the great plays and the smart decisions and how DS's team played a whole game without a true goalie because the boys were that good at keeping possession and playing sound defense and through our competent back line.

There were even mid-level NCSL teams at tournaments that gave our DS's team a close game, but it was not because they were playing pretty and technically sound soccer -- it was because they were good athletes and were very adept at booting the ball down the (short) field and chasing it and knocking our kids over. The close score did not mean that the teams were relatively equivalent in where the kids were in their development and that this team would be just as good as an opponent as a more technically sound team in the CCL. Once the teams move to a bigger field at U13, the gaps in the training will be exposed even more.

There is more travel in the CCL, but this is travel soccer. We had a choice and were given all the facts and this was the informed decision that we made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CCL does not relegate and really do not keep standings/post scores in the traditional sense, except that the top club overall is recognized, as is the top team in each age group.

CCL doesn't relegate but they do track standings for each team on their website. See, for example: http://www.clubchampionsleague.com/standings/?league=1&club=0&group=1&gender=male&season=3&submit=Submit