Will SEC escape RIFs due to large number of exits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When does the 8 hour clock begin? In the parking garage? In the lobby? When you swipe? At your desk? After you’ve logged in? After you’re done BS’ing with your coworkers at the printer?

Somebody ask “OGC leadership” or read the “policies on the intranet” and post here, please. TYIA.

At my agency, time begins when you send your “signing in” email to your boss, and ends when you send your “signing out” email.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does the 8 hour clock begin? In the parking garage? In the lobby? When you swipe? At your desk? After you’ve logged in? After you’re done BS’ing with your coworkers at the printer?

Somebody ask “OGC leadership” or read the “policies on the intranet” and post here, please. TYIA.

At my agency, time begins when you send your “signing in” email to your boss, and ends when you send your “signing out” email.

Cool. I can do that from my iPhone while having breakfast in union station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

A contract isn’t going to be interpreted in a way that completely writes out a provision.

Very well done! (What about 0% TW?)

+10000

This thread is equal parts DOGE apologists ("just a reorg not a RIF"), management shills ("Mark's doing his best to avoid drawing a bigger target"), hopium addicts ("RTO will be reversed by summer"), and totally unqualified fossils who are frozen in place by fear since they know they couldn't hack it elsewhere.

Seriously. Such a rollercoaster. Everyone here is drunk and confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

They can have it both ways. There are two separate issues. One is working your approved schedule and the other is timesheet attestation. Both need to be true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

How do you know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

How do you know?

Different poster but I know firsthand my agency is looking at badge swipes to assess RTO compliance. It is not protected in any way such as health records (nor should it be).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

How do you know?

You swipe into and out of the building- they have always had it. In addition, if you have a SEC iPhone, they could be tracking your phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

How do you know?

How do you NOT know? This isn’t a secret.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

DP. It’s my understanding that in the past there was a relatively high threshold to look at badge data, although I’m not sure whether it had to involve a PIP like PP said. (I’m also not sure this was a formal policy/requirement or just the practice.)

But since RTO (and by this I mean coming back twice a pay period, not the full-time return we have now or soon depending on position) they have been looking at it more regularly to ensure people were actually coming in twice a pay period.

I think it is very likely they will look at this data to ensure RTO compliance. Whether that includes looking at whether you did 8 or 8.5 from first to last swipe I don’t know. But if you regularly only had 8 hours, I could verily easily see that causing an issue.

[Anonymous]

This thread is very surprising and you should hope someone from DOGE isn’t seeing it. Get your head of the sand to see what is going on in government all around you and stop posting about your 1/2 hour lunch. You’re proving DOGE’s point and about to ruin things for everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought they could not look at our badge swipe records unless the person is on a Performance Improvement plan. Does anyone know if this has changed?

They regularly pull this data and can for any reason, at any time and without notification to you.

How do you know?

You swipe into and out of the building- they have always had it. In addition, if you have a SEC iPhone, they could be tracking your phone.

Probably easier just to track Internet network data from employee laptops. When are they signed on via the SEC network vs. a home/other network?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

DP. I’m aware of at least one agency pre-pandemic that imposed a strict 8.5 hour requirement from arrival swipe to departure swipe. You could leave for lunch but if you had more than 30 mins between swipes they would flag you if you didn’t use annual leave.